September 12, 2018

JF1471: From Credit Card Investment To A $90 Million Real Estate Portfolio with Tim Bratz

Tim bought his first investment property with his credit card, rehabbed it, sold it for about $14,000 profit! He was only 23 years old at this time, he kept on going and is now buying a lot of different properties and has a large portfolio that earns a great monthly income. If you enjoyed today’s episode remember to subscribe in iTunes and leave us a review!

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Tim Bratz Real Estate Background:

  • He buys, develops, and holds apartment buildings, vacation rentals, and other commercial real estate

  • Bought an investment property with his credit card at age 23

  • 9 years later, portfolio has a value of over $90M

  • Based in Cleveland, OH

  • Say hi to him at

  • Best Ever Book: 12 pillars

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Joe Fairless: Best Ever listeners, how are you doing? Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Joe Fairless, and this is the world’s longest-running daily real estate investing podcast. We only talk about the best advice ever, we don’t get into any of that fluffy stuff.

With us today, Tim Bratz. How are you doing, Tim?

Tim Bratz: Doing great, Joe. I appreciate you having me, brother.

Joe Fairless: Yeah, my pleasure. Nice to have you on the show. A little bit about Tim – he buys, develops and holds apartment buildings, vacation rentals and other commercial real estate. He bought an investment property with his credit card at 23, and nine years later he has a portfolio value of over 90 million buckaroos. Based in Cleveland, Ohio. With that being said, Tim, do you wanna give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and your current focus?

Tim Bratz: Well, thanks again for having me here, excited to be on the show. You’re doing an awesome job providing a lot of content and value for people, so I appreciate everything you’re doing.

Joe Fairless: I appreciate that.

Tim Bratz: My background – I’m from Cleveland, Ohio originally, and was going through college when the market was booming, ’03 to ’07, and people said “If you wanna make money, get involved in real estate”, and that’s what motivated a 21, 22-year-old kid back then, and I decided to get involved.

My brother was living in New York at the time, I ended up moving out there after college. I was a commercial leasing agent for a small boutique firm in Manhattan, and brokered a deal on a 400 square foot retail space in Greenwich Village area… And for 400 square feet the tenant was paying $10,000/month, 4% escalation, over 12 years.

I’m doing the math on this thing, and it was the first deal I ever brokered… And I’m like “This dude is gonna collect almost two million dollars over the next 12 years for something he did at one point in time, and that doesn’t include the other seven retail spaces and 15 stories of apartments above it, so… Man, I’m on the wrong side of the coin. I need to be owning real estate mentor instead of brokering this stuff.”

So I ended up leaving New York, moved down to Charleston, South Carolina just on a whim. I didn’t have a lot of capital or access to capital, but I was resourceful. Have you ever heard the Tony Robbins saying “Resourcefulness is the ultimate resource.” It doesn’t matter if you don’t have the time, or the money, or the knowledge; if you’re resourceful, you’re gonna figure it out.” So I was able to figure it out.

I called up my credit card company, asked them for a big increase on my credit card, and they didn’t give it to me, but they did give me $15,000. I asked for $100,000 and they said no, but I got them to give me 15 G’s, and I bought the cheapest house on the entire MLS in 2009 – nine years ago, this month… And I fixed it all up. I didn’t know what I was doing. I’m youtubing stuff, trying to figure out how to change out carpet, and fixtures, and I’m doing all the painting myself, landscaping… And I ended up turning it around, selling it, because I created flyers and handed them out to all the neighbors, held an open house… I sold it to one of the neighbors and made about $14,000 net income in 75 days.

Joe Fairless: That’s huge.

Tim Bratz: I’m like, “I’m a punk 23-year-old kid in the worst housing market in 80 years and making money.” So you do it again, then you start meeting people with some money, who have capital but they don’t have the time… And then I partnered up with some people who I gave 50% to 75% of the deal to, probably my first 200-250 deals that I did. But I realized as a young kid I needed to build up that resume. I needed to get some deals under my belt.

So I kept doing it, and eventually those partnerships kind of withered away. We went our separate ways and I’ve been doing my own thing for the past 36 months now. I’ve been just in acquisition mode, and buying and building apartments and townhouse developments in Ohio, South Carolina, Georgia, Texas, and I own a couple vacation rentals in Florida, too… So a little over 1,300 units, with another probably 250 under contract right now… So I’m hoping to be at like 1,800-2,000 by the end of the year.

Joe Fairless: Wow. What a story… We will unpack that, that’s for sure.

Tim Bratz: I tried to be quick, man…

Joe Fairless: Yeah, I’m looking forward to it. It’s good to get high-level, and then we’ll go into the weeds a little bit… The 1,300 units that you have now, I believe, if I was following correctly, that you do not have partners in those deals. Is that accurate?

Tim Bratz: I have some joint venture partners on my stuff that’s out of town. I don’t traditionally syndicate the way most traditional syndicators put together, where they’re giving up 70%-80% of the equity. I keep over 90% of the equity for myself and the joint venture partners, and I pay kind of a debt-equity hybrid to my private lenders, that they really like. It leaves a little bit more equity in it for me and my joint venture partner, and we can kind of focus on our unique abilities that way.

So any stuff that I have out of state – yeah, I have a joint venture partner who’s got some equity in the deal, and that’s the only way that they’re compensated, is based on the performance of the property. Then as a kicker to my investors, I always give them a little bit of equity long-term in the deal, too.

Joe Fairless: With the joint venture partners and the deals that are out of state – it sounds like their role is solely to provide some capital… Or do they have other responsibilities?

Tim Bratz: No. My stuff down in Georgia – I have a joint venture operator. He’s somebody who knows construction, can find some smokin’ deals down there, and oversee the renovations, oversee the value-add process on these things, and deal with the contractors. Then if shit hits the fan, he can step in and handle the ongoing management long-term. And he’s putting his eyes on the property, he’s making sure that it’s run properly once it is stabilized, too.

So it’s a way that I’ve been able to grow my business without having to take on more overhead and more staff. I think a lot of us that start out as solo entrepreneurs, we get into it because we like the idea of doing the business, and then all of a sudden you start hiring people, you realize the value in human capital, but then you also realize all the headaches in having staff, and employees, and having to deal with human resources.

So I’ve gone through that, and built one of the largest property management companies, residential property management companies in Cleveland; I had a bunch of stuff there, and then some stuff in my investment company, and now I’d rather run a lean, mean type of business, where we can joint venture with people, help other people who maybe don’t have as much experience in investments and apartment buildings, but they’ve got a good work ethic.

I can raise the money, I can bring my balance sheet and get the loans, I can mentor and coach through the whole process, and it’s a way that I can do more deals, and instead of having 100% of a grape, I can have 25% of a watermelon. Does that make sense?

Joe Fairless: Yeah.

Tim Bratz: There’s a lot more squeeze in 25% of a watermelon than there is in 100% of a grape.

Joe Fairless: I imagine the challenge that you’ve come across with that approach is making sure that all the projects that you’re working on, the partners are doing their share of what was agreed upon, and just making sure there are checks and balances… So how do you navigate that?

Tim Bratz: I have obviously run across issues with that in the past, and it’s all about expectation setting. The way that we do it is — because I’m raising the capital, or bringing my own money, and I’m signing on the loans, typically the money controls the deal. I know both the operational aspect and the financial aspect of the business… So typically, I’m able to control the deals, my attorney is putting all the paperwork together… It’s my mortgage broker getting the financing, it’s my insurance agent ensuring that all that’s taken care of, and then my staff here in Cleveland – I have a COO, I have a director of acquisitions, I have a director of project management, and  I have a director of asset management. That’s my entire investment team now.

My acquisitions guy is underwriting the deals, making sure that they meet our buying criteria. Then when it’s time to go through the project management phase, my project manager is working with our local joint venture partner and ensuring that they know what the full scope of work is; they’re getting quotes, we’re sharing a lot of our national suppliers and vendors and contractors, so they’re handling all that stuff… And then he’s checking on them on a regular basis, making sure everything’s on budget, everything’s on time.

You can manage this stuff as long as you have the right key performance indicators (KPIs) in place. With a two-minute phone call every single morning you can say “Hey, where are we on budget? Where are we on timeframe? What does the occupancy look like?” All that stuff can all be done in a couple minute phone call, and numbers don’t lie. So we’re able to know what the expectations are, set very clear expectations, and our joint venture partners earn more equity as the project progresses. So the way the operating agreement is drafted – maybe they start out with 5% equity, and as they get further and further along, they earn more equity in the deal, and we do it that way.

That way, there’s no sour feelings, or anything like that, that come in from somebody not doing their job, or us having to step in and kick the table and be like “What the hell is going on here?” and then getting a lawsuit, or anything like that.

So that’s typically what we do, and then my asset management director – he’s constantly just reviewing statements, checking on the owner portals for all of our properties… And we run the property management remotely through our property management company up here in Cleveland. So we might have an on-site person to handle open houses and showings, and make sure the place is clean, and the grass is cut, and there’s no trash or litter anywhere, but we can handle everything else remotely. That’s the cool thing about being able to have internet and phone – we can market the properties remotely, we can take rental applications remotely, we can screen tenants remotely, we can sign leases remotely, we can collect all the rents remotely, all bills are paid remotely, and that entire process of maintenance is all done remotely. They can call into the 800 line…

So we have a good management software and a good team and process in place where a majority of the business aspects, things that maybe most operators maybe aren’t that good at – we can take all that off their plate, and then a local operator can just focus on (again) their unique ability, which is maybe managing the property or managing the contractors, and finding good deals.

Joe Fairless: With the joint venture partners that earn more equity as the project progresses, can you elaborate on the mechanics for how that works?

Tim Bratz: Yeah, there’s a lot of moving parts in commercial real estate. Somebody needs to find the deal; somebody needs to put up all the money for earnest money, due diligence, the loan application… That’s worth something. Somebody needs to go through the whole due diligence process and underwrite the entire deal; somebody needs to get the loan; somebody needs to raise all the private capital for it, all the equity. Then, once we close on the property, somebody needs to oversee the contractors and the value-add; that could be a couple months, that could be two years, depending on how heavy of a lift of a renovation it is.

Somebody then has to handle the ongoing management… If I’m stepping in and working with a newbie, there’s  a cost of me mentoring, and the time spent on that; that’s worth something to the deal, too. So I’m pretty a la carte with a lot of my joint venture partners, and whatever they need me for, I’ll come in for; if they don’t need me, then I don’t need to be a part of that and I can take a little bit less equity.

So we split it up in a way that if I’m taking a lot of the financial risk, then I control the LLC, the operating entity, and then as they prove themselves and as we get the property stabilized, and then we get it refinanced, and put maybe some non-recourse debt in place, and I get all my money back, and my investors get all their money back, then there’s a lot less risk in it than for me, and we have a stabilized asset with a non-recourse loan in place… So then I don’t need as much equity and we can keep on growing the joint venture operators’ equity.

It’s a cool way that we’ve been able to kind of (again) grow without growing internally, but still be able to grow our influence and our portfolio.

Joe Fairless: You mentioned earlier that in the past you’ve had some issues with partners… Can you give a specific example of one thing that happened?

Tim Bratz: Yeah, partnerships are tough. I run some masterminds, and just do some local stuff with business owners, and usually one of the biggest struggles is partnerships, or somebody not holding their weight, and just kind of leeching from the partnership… I mean, hey, partnerships are tough enough when things are going good, and then obviously they go bad… God forbid they go really good – then there’s even more problems, because money can make people ugly.

The first one that comes to mind is I had a joint venture partner who put up a lot of cash; they had a successful business, and they put up some cash…

Joe Fairless: How much cash?

Tim Bratz: About 1.3 million dollars over the course of about 18 months, in different projects… And over the course of about 36 months I turned that into about 3-3,5 million dollars worth of property. I just kept on rolling up, buy an 8-unit, get a 14-unit; flip that one over, get a 23-unit… Turn it into a 31-unit. Then we got to a point where we were gonna go buy a 100-unit apartment complex in a B+, A- kind of an area, we got it for a song, and it was at a point where now it’s time to go get financing… And everything checked out on me; I had good credit, not a lot of assets at the time, but most of it was in this partnership, that was what my net worth was…

And when they underwrote my business partner, he had some issues, he had gotten in some trouble when he was in his 20’s, and he was  40-something at the time, so about 15 years prior… He got caught taking drugs over the Canadian-American border, and because of it, and all these money laundering charges, and income tax liens and property tax liens – there’s no chance he would ever get financing… So that was never disclosed to me. I didn’t realize that that was the case, and now all of a sudden I’m responsible for bringing the money, getting the financing, getting the loans, and then doing all the work as well… And it changed the balance of who was responsible for what and who should be compensated for what.

It kind of got into a pissing match where he thought he was still entitled to the 67%-70% that he was getting, I was entitled to more than 33% if I was gonna take on that additional risk and 100% liability on that… And we just couldn’t come to an agreement, and we had to liquidate about 200-some units, right around there.

Joe Fairless: Wow… You liquidated the units and then you did not go through with the transaction with someone else?

Tim Bratz: Man, I lost it… And the thing would probably worth double today. This was early 2016, late 2015 that it happened. So it was just shy of 36 months ago.

Joe Fairless: Did you have any earnest money that was non-refundable that you lost, or anything like that?

Tim Bratz: No, we had $100,000 of earnest money, it was refundable, but here’s the thing… When you have $100,000 of earnest money up, and you’re going through the due diligence period, even though you’re able to take that money back off the table and say “Hey listen, we can’t move forward”, sometimes the seller puts in a headlock. Now they know that they’ve got your nuts in a vice, and they can kind of dictate things… So when I went back to the seller and said “Hey listen, we can’t move forward on this. We can’t get this loan”, the seller is like “Well, you know, I spent some time with my assistant on this, and they spent quite a bit of time getting all the due diligence together for you, and I had to pay my accountant to pull some of the records, and my attorney had to review this, and I had some costs… And of that $100,000, I think I’m entitled to $20,000 of it.” I’m like “What? Are you out of your friggin mind?” We went back and forth, I got so pissed that I just put my attorney in charge and I’m like “Dude, just get me as much of it back as you can”, because I was then going through the partnership dissolution…

Joe Fairless: Oh, yeah…

Tim Bratz: And he ended up getting me $98,000 back, but they still kept 2k… That’s the risk you take when you’re putting up the earnest money.

Joe Fairless: Wow… You were fighting battles on multiple fronts.

Tim Bratz: Yeah, and it’s stressful. Sometimes you can’t see outside of that situation. It was a pretty dark, difficult period of my life, where I don’t know what I’m gonna do, all my equity is in this deal, these guys might try to burn me, and this and that, and all my net worth is in these projects… I guess I was like 29-30 at the time. My wife was pregnant with our first kid, we were going through all this stuff, and I’m trying to figure out what’s the next step, where am I going in life… Really stressful.

Sometimes you can’t see outside the box that you’re in when you’re in some of those tough situations, but fortunately I had some good mentors that kind of walked me through it, who had been through that. That’s one of the big values of being in masterminds, and hanging out in groups of successful entrepreneurs, people who had been there and been through these kinds of situations. They’re able to take an objective look at what’s going on in your situation and say “Hey man, I know you already know what you need to do, but here’s me validating it by telling you what I did in that situation, what got me out of it.” It really helped out being part of a mastermind of some people who kind of guided me through that process.

Joe Fairless: What mastermind was it that you were a part of during this process that helped you out?

Tim Bratz: It was one called Deal Maker Family; Mark Evans runs it. I know you talked to Ray  Gonzalez, I know he was on your show, and I think a couple of the other guys. Good group. [unintelligible [00:18:36].17] is in there, and a couple big influencers on social media are in that group. Big supporters, good friends of mine, and we’re like brothers, a lot of those guys… That’s an awesome group.

I’m also in Collective Genius, with Jason Medley and a bunch of high-performing single-family investors. Then I know Rod Khleif, he’s got a multifamily boardroom, and then I have my own, called Advisors Council. It’s me, Lee Carney, and Francis [unintelligible [00:19:01].05] and a couple other people, that we do some high-level stuff as well.

I run masterminds, I spend a lot of money being a part of other people’s masterminds, and I think that is the secret sauce to really catapulting your success and fast-forwarding what you can accomplish in business, and life.

Joe Fairless: You mentioned you spend a lot of money in masterminds… Over the course of 12 months, how much will you invest in a mastermind, or across the board in all of them?

Tim Bratz: Not including the travel, I probably spend about $75,000. If you include the travel, and airlines, and all that other stuff, you’re probably looking at 85k, 90k, almost 100k.

Joe Fairless: And how do you determine the ROI for that investment of about $100,000?

Tim Bratz: Well, I remember my first mastermind that I joined, which was the Deal Maker Family with Mark Evans… I was a solo entrepreneur, and they gave me two pieces of advice in that. One was to join the mastermind, and two was to hire an assistant and get all the small stuff off my plate. Although I knew I needed an assistant, when you’re a solo entrepreneur you have no idea what that looks like – how do I pay them, what do I pay them, how do I give them tasks, responsibilities, how do I make sure they’re doing those jobs, what happens if it doesn’t work out… All these fears that set in, and they kind of just walked me through it. Hey, instead of paying somebody — it’s not $30,000 that you’re risking here, you’re risking $2,500/month. So if it doesn’t work in 30 days, then you fire the person, and it was a $2,500 learning opportunity, versus a $30,000.

So just by tweaking my thoughts a little bit like that, I made that hire, and then I did a deal with Mark and a couple other guys, and I made $300,000 just in deals that I did with people in that mastermind that first ten months that I was involved in it.

So that was an easy ROI – I spent $30,000 on it and I got a ten times return on investment from it. A lot of times it’s deal flow, sometimes it’s raising private money, sometimes it’s not even quantifiable.

I went to one event, and the guy was talking about relationships, and dating your wife, and setting priorities, and having a marriage-centric household versus a child-centric household, and that changed a lot for me and my wife in our marriage, and it’s gotten a lot better… And you can’t quantify that. So there’s other things that maybe don’t have the metrics that you can measure, but have made significant impacts, not only in business, but in life.

Joe Fairless: I love that phrase, dating your wife. My wife’s pregnant right now, she’s due in a couple months, we’re gonna have a baby girl, so the having a marriage-centric versus a kids-centric – I don’t quite comprehend that yet, but I’m sure I will…

Tim Bratz: I’m in the same thing, I have a three year old and a one year old and I know you’ve got a couple little ones, so…

Joe Fairless: Well, I’ve got one, yeah…

Tim Bratz: It’s really tough in this space, but you’ve gotta do it, you’ve gotta date your wife; you’ve gotta take her out, and still court her, and get her flowers, and do fun stuff, and not forget that you guys were together before the kids came along… Just recycling my thought process on that has made a big impact on our marriage and our family and our household, and because I show up more in marriage, she shows up more too, and it allows me to then be more successful in business, because now I’m not stressed out about what’s happening up at home.

Joe Fairless: Yeah, it makes complete sense. I’m jumping around from something you said earlier, and then I’ll ask you the money question I ask everyone… But on the KPI call, you said you could have a two-minute call where you go over the budget, the timeframe, the occupancy… What are some other things that you or your team member goes over on that call?

Tim Bratz: It’s usually the occupancy rate, what the unit turn timeframe looks like, how long it is taking for us to turn units… Standard, people say “Hey listen, we wanna turn a unit in a week” or “We wanna turn a unit in 30 days” or whatever that looks like. Me, I set such a high bar that that’s unacceptable to me. My goal in owning my rental property is to have 100% percent of the rent paid, 365 days a year. They go “Tim, how the hell would you accomplish that? What about tenants moving out, tenants moving in?” Our leasing starts 90 days in advance.

We’ll go and contact the tenant 90 days prior to their lease renewal, and say “Hey, Mrs. Jones, do you plan on sticking around? We’d love to sign a new lease, for another 12 months with you.” “Oh, you know, I’m moving to California… My son’s having a daughter in a few months, and I need to go out there and spend some time, and I wanna be by the grandkids.” “Hey, sounds great… I know your lease is up at the end of October; I’ll tell you what – do you mind if we just come through and just take some notes on some improvements that we wanna make to the unit for once you do leave?” “Yeah, yeah, no problem.” “Great, we’re gonna send a property manager through next week.”

So we’re having this conversation, and then we go in, we take notes on everything that needs to be turned, we’re ordering the supplies 60 days out, and then we’ll even have  a conversation with Mrs. Jones, that says “Mrs. Jones, I know you’re moving out at the end of the October, but the supplies came  in early. Do you mind if we just come in and kind of make some improvements to your unit while you’re living there, and maybe give you a new kitchen or a new bathroom, even though you’re moving out? You’ll be able to utilize it for the last couple months of your lease.” “Yeah, yeah, that sounds good.” “Okay, great.”

So then we’ll go in and we’ll actually do the improvements and turn the unit while the tenant is living there. Then we’ll give them a discount or guarantee that they’ll get all their security deposit back if they use our cleaning company to have it professionally cleaned.

So instead of spending 7 or 20 days to turn a unit, they move out on October 21st, and we’re able to go in and turn the unit in literally a couple hours… Walk through, do the checklist, maybe there’s a list of items, and we’re marketing the unit the whole time, so we have a waiting list of tenants, and that way we can move somebody in on October 21st… And Mrs. Jones paid till October 31st. She doesn’t expect any of that money back, and we can double-dip on rent for ten days. So we actually collected rent 375 days of that year.

That’s the expectation that I set with my team, and if they fall from that a little bit, that’s okay, because we’re still at 100% occupancy. So doing things like that, and making sure that how many lease renewals we have coming up, how many people we contacted, asking about those kinds of KPI’s, what percentage has been paid out to the contractors versus what percentage of work has been done, and looking at that… We have timelines that are quantifiable on the front-end for line item on the scope of work for doing these renovations… So we’re looking at a lot of those things.

I try not to over-complicate it, but there’s usually 2-4 KPI’s per individual that we’re looking at, that will give us a good indication of “Are we growing or are we dying? Are we ripening or are we rotting?”

Joe Fairless: I’m glad I asked that question. What is your best real estate investing advice ever?

Tim Bratz: I would say join a mastermind. What took me nine years to do I think if you join a mastermind and you surround yourself with the right people… Now, you’re gonna have to pay; I pay $35,000 for one mastermind, another $30,000 for another mastermind, another $20,000 for another one, $1,500 for another one… So I guess I’m closer to like $90,000. I’m definitely over $100,000 a year.

I don’t think you need to join that many. I think you can join one, and soak it up, create a lot of relationships… It’s tough being an entrepreneur. Sometimes it can be lonely, and you can’t have high-level conversations.

When you’re talking in dollars and decimals, some people get offended by that that you grew up with. It’s different hanging out with people with a common past, versus hanging out with people with a common future. It’s kind of tough to think that way, because these are people that you love, that you grew up with, but the reality is life’s a train ride, and some people are only on for a couple of stops, and they’re not meant to be on for the entire train ride, as much as you love them and as much as you wanna support them. Sometimes they’re just going in a different direction, and have a different destination than  you.

Surround yourself with people with a common future, not just a common past, and I think doing a mastermind that has a significant investment kind of weeds out some of the lower mindsets and thinkers out there… So I think you can really fast-track success if you get involved in a mastermind.

Joe Fairless: We’re gonna do a lightning round. Are you ready for the Best Ever Lightning Round?

Tim Bratz: Alright, brother… Let’s do it.

Joe Fairless: Alright, let’s do it. First, a quick word from our Best Ever partners.

Break: [00:26:43].23] to [00:27:20].20]

Joe Fairless: Best ever book you’ve read recently?

Tim Bratz: Twelve Pillars.

Joe Fairless: Best ever deal you’ve done?

Tim Bratz: I just took down a 730-unit portfolio in Georgia, and I’m all into it for 24 million, and it’ll appraise for around almost 45 million, probably 43 million dollars when it’s all said and done.

Joe Fairless: What’s a mistake you’ve made on a transaction?

Tim Bratz: Paying the contractor or letting the contractor get ahead of the money.

Joe Fairless: Best ever way you like to give back?

Tim Bratz: I bought a suite for the Cav’s conference finals this past season, because I’m in Cleveland… And I put some on Facebook, and I said “Hey, who’s a family that deserves to go to this Cav’s suite?” and I gave away four tickets to five different families who had faced a lot of adversity, and not only overcame it, but also paid it forward, started a non-profit to help out kids with congenital heart defects, or they’re going out and speaking on behalf of organ transplants, because the one girl’s sister passed away… And they saved four lives from an organ transplant. I like doing stuff where I’m connected with the people I’m giving to.

Joe Fairless: Best ever way the Best Ever listeners can learn more about what you’ve got going on and get in touch with you?

Tim Bratz: Hit me up on Facebook, Tim Bratz. I’m sure you’ll tag me, Joe, hit me up on there. And is my website. Send some enquiries to me there, and I’m happy to connect with anybody.

Dude, I appreciate you having me, brother.

Joe Fairless: Yeah, I really enjoyed it. I learned a lot… A lot of valuable information, from partnerships, how to structure them, what to look out for, an example of a partnership that didn’t go according to plan, how you handled that, masterminds – the importance of them, and the ways to do asset management, questions you go through, and then also your approach on unit turns was really interesting… So thanks again for being on the show. I hope you have a best ever day, and we’ll talk to you soon.

Tim Bratz: Thanks, Joe.

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