November 12, 2022

JF2991: Tips for Growing & Building Your Team ft. Benjamin Goodpasture

Benjamin Goodpasture is the CEO of Goodpasture Homes, LLC, which transforms distressed properties into functional homes that add value to families, homebuyers, tenants, and neighborhoods.


In this episode, he discusses how his background in construction fueled his interest in rehab and construction-intensive projects, how he is adapting his investment and acquisitions strategies in response to the current market and economy, and the top lessons he’s learned from managing his own team of rehabbers.

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Benjamin Goodpasture | Real Estate Background

  • CEO of Goodpasture Homes, LLC, which transforms distressed properties into functional homes that add value to families, homebuyers, tenants, and neighborhoods.
  • Portfolio:
    • 40+ doors
  • Based in: Redding, CA
  • Say hi to him at:



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Slocomb Reed: Best Ever listeners, welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I'm Slocomb Reed, and I'm here with Benjamin Goodpasture. Benjamin is joining us from Northern California. He is a house flipper, multifamily BRRRR investor, and a short-term rental investor focused in the Northern California market around the Oregon border. His current portfolio is just over 40 doors, he's under contract to more than double that here soon. Benjamin, can you tell us a little bit more about what you're currently focused on and a little bit more about your background?

Benjamin Goodpasture: Yeah. So I grew up in Virginia, and my dad was a contractor, so I grew up on the job site every summer, swinging a hammer, climbing on roofs, painting... So that was kind of my upbringing. And then I went to university and studied construction management at Appalachian State University. So I have a very strong construction background. And then I did the whole nine-to-five corporate world where we were building small neighborhoods in Raleigh, North Carolina. So I was a project manager all the way up until '08, when the recession hit, and I got laid off. So that was the best thing that could ever happen to me. That was the beginning of my entrepreneurship journey. So that kind of led me into starting businesses, and I moved out to Redding, California, where I'm currently at... And that's what really kind of got me thinking about doing my own thing.

And once I got out here, probably after being at it for three years, I started a rock climbing gym. So I know that's not real estate, but starting a business, running a gym, that's what really got me my PhD for business. That's how I really learned business and entrepreneurship. I did that for about seven years... And in that time was when I got married to my wife, and that's when we bought our first house. That was 2015. So that's kind of where my journey started.

Slocomb Reed: Nice. Benjamin, I have to say, I spend a lot of time going direct to seller; I'm an apartment owner-operator here in Cincinnati, Ohio, and whenever I talk to older investors, more so investors than contractors, when they talk about bringing their kids to the worksite and getting them to swing a hammer and a paintbrush and getting them on roofs, all those kids burned out of real estate and went and got white collar jobs to sit at a desk somewhere. None of them actually stayed in real estate. It sounds like you're the exception to the rule there.

You bought your first house in 2015 in Northern California, having started a rock climbing gym; when did you buy your first investment real estate?

Benjamin Goodpasture: I would like to say that that first house in '15 was my first investment property. I did buy a condo in 2006-2007. I don't really count that, because there's such a big gap in between the two. And so my first property out here was a house-hack. I'm sure a lot of your listeners know what that is, but it's a primary house and an investment property in one. So the upstairs was a three/two house, and the downstairs had a one-bedroom apartment. And so we renovated the whole upstairs, furnished it, put it on Airbnb, and then we lived in the one bedroom studio downstairs. The income from the upstairs covered our mortgage, our utilities, and we had $1,000/month loan payment that we borrowed from my father-in-law as a down payment in the rehab. So it covered all of our expenses, and we did that, and that was our first -- it was our primary and an investment property.

Slocomb Reed: Yeah, absolutely. I bought my first house-hack in early 2014. I live in my second house-hack now. Similar situation, I say house-hack - my wife and I and our soon-to-be kids... It's a four-bedroom two-and-a-half bath, 1,800 square foot townhouse, but it has apartments attached to it that are covering the mortgage. So very familiar there. It sounds like you and I have had fairly similar career trajectories; very different things beforehand, though. I was a full-time professional youth minister, with no construction experience or anything real estate related. BRRRR investing, house flipping - those are very rehab construction-intensive strategies. Was that your natural segue into investing? You have this background in construction, therefore investment deals that require a lot of construction for their upside?

Benjamin Goodpasture: Yeah, I think that first house-hack, I really got that taste of investing. I got to manage on a small-scale property management, and it was just kind of the really easy way to get in the game. And then our second house we bought was a huge remodel. It was the biggest one I'd done at the time; we were tearing out walls, and it was pretty overwhelming. So we did that big project while running the gym. But the other house I started with, then it became a duplex. So I had two rentals, and seeing that thing cash-flow really well, this project happened... And then [unintelligible 00:05:57.22] my journey is we had a big fire that came through Reading, so I had to move to Tahoe for about four months. So we moved to Tahoe, I was working for a builder... All I was doing was listening to audiobooks and podcasts, and just so hungry to get into real estate, because I just saw that it was scalable. And with my rock climbing gym, I just didn't see that scalability. I was pretty hands-on, and I wanted to be a more passive investor.

So we ended up getting another property when we moved back to Reading that was an owner carry, and it was a great deal. So we did that. That was 2018. The same year I also bought two properties in Kansas City. That was really great; creative financing deal where I put zero down, got the loan, my partner brought all the cash... And in 2019 was when I said "I want to go all-in, I'm gonna start flipping houses." So that was my intro, was flipping houses. And then I started telling everyone, "I'm gonna start flipping houses. That's my thing." So I told my brother that, and he was like, "Hey, I'm doing hard money loans." I'm like, 'Really?" I was like, "Let's talk."

And so we started looking at properties... We got our first one at the end of 2019. Made about 40k on it, it was a great deal. And then going into 2020, that's when the Coronavirus hit, the pandemic, I had to shut down the gym for two months... Right during that time I made an offer on another flip, got it... I made another offer on a five-unit, which was my first BRRRR. So while the gym was closed, I just went all-in, I started hiring people, and we just started doing it. That's when we did our first BRRRR, and that was a huge learning curve.

Slocomb Reed: You said "That's when I started hiring people." Are you talking about 1099 contractors [00:07:43.23] or were you trying to put together a rehab crew that would work for you into the future?

Benjamin Goodpasture: Yeah, I started putting a rehab crew together. I think I had maybe two employees, and I slowly started building the more we did it. And at the end of that year I did several other flips. And luckily, at the end of the year I sold two businesses. I sold the rock climbing gym, I started an Airbnb management company, we sold that... And then 2021 was when we actually went full-time into real estate. That's where we had huge growth. We went from 10 doors to at one time we had 65 doors.

Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. You had 65. You're at 41 now, I believe. What led you to sell off some of the portfolio?

Benjamin Goodpasture: We bought these three multifamily properties that I didn't really like the location; I knew it was gonna be a great flip. I bought it really cheap. So it was a flip that we made $400,000 on, and I did no work. All the work that I did was some septic work. So it was such a high­-profit flip it made more sense to sell it than to keep it.

Slocomb Reed: I've had a few of those. You know, like I said earlier, we have fairly similar investing trajectories... Again, I didn't have your construction experience or education coming in, but I've been very similar, and there have been times when I've BRRRR-ed properties when it just made sense to sell. A two-family, a six unit, and I've got a couple others here coming up that may make more sense to sell than keep, depending on how the economy goes through the end of 2022. We're recording in early September now.

It's become really trendy for podcasters like me and the other Best Ever hosts to ask where people think the market is going. So this episode won't air for a little while; there will inevitably have been some change. And well I don't want to ask you to look into a crystal ball and tell me what the end of 2022 or 2023 look like, let me ask, Benjamin, how are you, or are you adapting your investment strategy or your acquisition strategy, given everything that's happening in the market, in the economy, in global politics right now?

Benjamin Goodpasture: Great question. I appreciate you, Slocomb. We don't have a crystal ball, and no one knows where it's going... I think there's gonna be a lot more deals coming, especially going into the winter and holiday season; things just slow down. And if things sit, people are motivated to sell, and then there's going to be more price reductions. I think November, December is probably my favorite month to buy, because most buyers are busy and occupied doing the holiday thing. So I think there's an opportunity there. For me, with our pivot, I'm finding that it's really hard to get deals on market and off market. I'm finding there's a big disconnect between the selling price and actually what we can buy it for to make the numbers work. So what I'm doing is I'm finding bigger deals; I'm looking at bigger deals, deals that require a lot of creativity... For example, a property that has storage units, and seven single-family homes - it's not very conforming, so how can I buy this, split the lots, maybe keep one, sell one...? Or the one I'm looking at right now, we're in contract on a hotel, RV park, cabin rentals... So that deal makes sense, because there's going to be 66 doors, and there's a ton of that value opportunity there. So I'm looking at things like that... Or even we just got into a contract on four houses on three lots, and there's multiple exit strategies for both of those. I can divide it up into four lots and sell them off individually, or I can sell them off into two lots, or I can keep them and BRRRR them. So having multiple exits I think is important going into a lot of uncertainty with interest rates, and buying and selling...

So that's kind of my strategy. I'm trying to go bigger, I want to hold more real estate, so that's why I'm buying bigger deals. And let me add one more thing... And part of that is I do have two flips I'm selling right now. One of them I thought would be a home run, a Grand Slam; amazing remodel, awesome location, and it's still on the market. We actually just got an offer. I think it's gonna be in escrow today or tomorrow. But it's taken about two and a half months to get it under contract. And that's not what we're used to, right? The last couple years have just been such a hot market, and we're getting more into a normal cycle where things take time to sell. Buying Your house is one of the biggest decisions that a buyer makes, so they normally take their time... So it's different versus low interest rates, people buying as fast as they can... So I'm still getting used to that. I don't like how long it's taking to sell my flips... So that's why I'm slowing down the flipping game. I'm investing in more the buy and hold stuff right now.

Slocomb Reed: Yeah, that makes sense. I'm also a residential real estate agent. I know in Cincinnati there are a lot of high-powered savvy house flippers who are shying away from longer flips, the things that will take nine months to do instead of three months, for that reason, and because they're much more willing to predict what the market will look like three months from now than nine months from now. And you know, most hold strategies are much more recession-resistant, because the properties have the ability to cash flow, at least for a number of years, before any volatility in the property's value would actually impact the property.

I want to do a bit of a deep-dive here, given the similarities in our investing and in our operations, Benjamin. I am working on doubling if not tripling the size of my rehab crews. I just split one crew into two, and I'll have twice as many rehabbers working for me as I did this time a month ago, and I need to do that again. So let me ask, when it comes to building out your rehab crews - and mine will be primarily apartment turn focused. Some of it is just a purely cosmetic paint and a countertop, and sometimes the cabinets, and some of it in my portfolio right now is taking out the wall between the kitchen and the living rooms to open up the floor plan. Change the footprint of the kitchen, move the electrical, move the plumbing, things like that. So I'm not just looking for people who can paint and carpet. What are your top lessons learned from managing your own rehabbers, given your experience, and also the skills and education that you brought into investing with you?

Benjamin Goodpasture: It's a great question. I think having a great project manager is very important. That person that is very present on the site, they're communicating with the rehab team, they're scheduling, they're supplying materials... They're making sure to keep the workers busy, so where they're not having to run errands, and that sort of thing. So I think the organization is important. And you learn by doing; we did a 16-unit apartment complex, and we've never done one that big before. We didn't know we needed to have big storage containers to store material, and things like that. We used units, and it wasn't very efficient. We're having to move flooring and appliances from one unit to next to get that done... And that's kind of what we did. We kind of limped along, we made it happen. But it was great as a team when we got done with that project; we came together and we're like, "What do we learn here? How can we do that differently?" We learned a lot of lessons. One lesson we learned is making sure you identify your lead construction guy, having at least one leader on site who is in charge of everyone; that was something that we learned, so we identified that, making sure that person feels empowered and seen by the crew as the leader... And it doesn't mean they're the most knowledgeable.

Sometimes it's the best communicator, and the one that's most confident, that is able to stick to deadlines, and also that can communicate clearly. So that was two big things. I think communication is important. And also, make sure you're hiring people that fit your culture; we had to let go of a couple people that just didn't fit the culture. There was drama, there was gossip... So what I've learned also is that the whole saying of "Slow to hire, quick to fire." And we did that, because it was just causing this negative effect on our culture when we had a couple of guys that were doing those things. We just had to get rid of them, even though that slowed us down. And I'm sure you know, it's hard to find good workers; there's not many people out there that want to work, so it's kind of scary to let someone go, even though they're a good worker, but they're not a good fit, or causing negative harm to the whole community.

Break: [00:17:03.28] to [00:18:09.21]

Slocomb Reed: Benjamin, I'm imagining, given your experience, that you made yourself the project manager for quite a while, especially when your gym was closed. I don't want to ask how long you were the project manager; how many projects did you have going at once before you begin to identify who the "foreman" of each of your crew could be?

Benjamin Goodpasture: Yeah, I probably had five or six projects going on at one time that I was managing... And then it was actually pretty cool what happened... I eventually started working myself out of being on-site. I was still project-managing, ordering materials, scheduling... And then I had several guys that were more the leads... And then I hired an assistant. It was probably my first big hire; I hired an assistant. That was a full-time job, and she helped me with my organization, with ordering, paying contractors, opening mail... When you start building up all these rentals, the amount of mail you get is insane. And I hate opening mail. It's like the worst thing. So she started helping me with that, and then I started giving her more responsibility, and then she started project-managing stuff on her own. And that's how she stepped into that position. She started out as an assistant. I didn't even think she'd be a project manager, and then she started doing it, and doing it really well, and then she started managing the projects for me. And then I would only go to each project maybe two to four times while it was getting done. So that was great. It freed up a lot of my time.

Slocomb Reed: You said - and I agree - that one of your primary focuses when hiring people, including rehabbers, is that they need to be a cultural fit for your team and for your organization. Benjamin, for you specifically, what does that mean?

Benjamin Goodpasture: Great question. I think that for our culture, there's several things that are important to me. One is just a good attitude. Somebody that I can sit down with, have a great conversation with, they have good morals, they have honor, they have respect, they're going to show up on time, that sort of thing; just reading their personality and culture. And also, number two, I'd say just a hard worker; someone that can get to work... If they see an opportunity, they can start working, they're not just standing around and waiting for it to happen, but they're assertive. I really care about someone who's going to be assertive, they're gonna find ways to contribute... Honestly, I think there are times to hire the very skilled person, which is very important, and there's also times to hire someone that has got a great attitude, that's hungry, and that wants to learn.

So I think it's a combination of hiring both of those people, because I think there's something about constantly training people up to be on your team, especially when it's really difficult to find the skilled people. So I think it's a combination of finding skilled people, great attitude, they're loyal, good people, and then also find good people with great hearts that are awesome, and then train them up and make them skilled.

Slocomb Reed: With your long-term rentals, I assume you're self-managing.

Benjamin Goodpasture: No, I don't do that anymore. I learned that the hard way on my first five-unit I repositioned; it was a nightmare dealing with tenants and evictions. I barely got through that. I used to have to carry pepper spray over to the property, because I thought I was gonna have to throw blows with one of the tenants who was just crazy. Just so intense. So right now I have three managers; we've got one that does all of our long-term stuff, and then I've got two different Airbnb managers.

Slocomb Reed: As you've scaled your operations - and I will say, for our Best Ever listeners who don't hear as frequently from house flippers, the 41 units right now, it may feel like a bit of an under-calculation, given the number of renovations that you have going on. For someone like me who's much more so on apartments, for the amount of renovation you're doing, if you were strictly buy and hold for the last few years, it'd be a much larger portfolio. So you have the operations to handle much more than you currently own, because part of your business model is to sell when you're done renovating. Before we transition to the last segment of this show, within your organization, Benjamin, which responsibility that you've looked to delegate, which job description that you've needed to hire has been the most difficult, and why?

Benjamin Goodpasture: I would say the most difficult - I'm probably in it right now - it's requiring more from me... But I would say the COO role. And I'd say, especially if you're a listener and you want to scale, most people that are scaling that are taking being a real estate investor and transforming it into a real estate investing business, oftentimes you hear one of your biggest hires is a COO, and that's the integrator.

So my hat, and my seat in the business as CEO. I'm the visionary. So for me to accomplish more, it's the mindset of Who, Not How. Gret book, everyone should read it. Most people think "How am I going to do all these things?" When you think about doing hundreds of doors, and scaling and flipping... It doesn't make sense. And so you have to think who. Who is going to do it?

I hired a COO, and I'm trying to figure out there sweet spot. I started out delegating them to do all of our deal flow. The deal flow has been challenging, with sending letters, we tried PPC, all these different ways of getting leads... So then I just started a mentorship program, so I've fully handed that off to him. He's doing an amazing job executing on that, interviewing, doing this mentorship thing that I'm doing to help people get into real estate... And then I think with these new projects we've got going on, I want to have him dive into it. So he's kind of jumping around...

Really, the goal is for my CEO to really learn all aspects of the business, operations, make it leaner, make it better, and have them implement my vision. So eventually, the goal is that I'm going to promote him to see CEO, and then I'm going to go to the owner box, which will free my time to do other things. So I think that's probably the most difficult, is really replacing myself in the business.

Slocomb Reed: I totally get that. For our Best Ever listeners who need to get caught up on the lingo... The term integrator comes from the book Rocket Fuel, which I believe is by Gino Wickman, who also wrote Traction. Two fantastic books for anyone who is active in building any business, in or out of real estate.

I also just finished Ready Fire Aim by Michael Masterson, which I actually felt gave me permission to not hire a COO right now. As much as I love delegating, I have an entrepreneurial personality, but not the type A entrepreneurial personality. I'm usually pretty happy to delegate things... What Michael Masterson helped me understand in Ready Fire Aim, which I've recently read, is that based on the size of my business right now, the genius with 1,000 helpers model is actually still appropriate. I have some more growth to go through before I get to the point where I need to hire managers, where I need to hire that integrator. But man, I tell you what - it's still not a fun place to stay. The genius with 1000 helpers, when all 1000 helpers need the genius every day, especially... I was feeling that earlier today; it can get pretty stressful. So I'll be headed in that direction here soon, Benjamin. I'm grateful for your advice. Benjamin, are you ready for the best ever lightning round?

Benjamin Goodpasture: Let's do it.

Slocomb Reed: Excellent.

Benjamin Goodpasture: We've talked a lot about books already, both of us... What is the best ever book you've recently read?

Benjamin Goodpasture: Glad you asked... It's not a real estate or business book, but it's more of a life book... It's called Green Lights, by Matthew McConaughey. Great book. I read it when I was actually on a surf trip in the Maldives last year, and I just listened to the audio version. The audio version is incredible, because he's reading and he's the narrator. Great, animated guy... So I just love that book, and recommend it, because of all the rite of passage, the taking risk... You just hear all these incredible stories of him taking risks, listening to his heart, his gut... And also things you hear him say where he -- valuable lessons of saying no to things, and saying yes... So there's just a lot of wisdom in this book, and it's just great storytelling. So it's very entertaining, and enjoyable, while you're getting inspiring lessons.

Slocomb Reed: Nice. I've heard a few people talking about that. It's about time that I read it, too. What is your best ever way to give back?

Benjamin Goodpasture: So something that we're doing right now that I'm excited about... Eventually, I think there's going to be a nonprofit for us within our company, and something that I want to really build up in our community... It's basically doing surprise home makeovers. We did this recently for some friends of ours. They thought we were going to help them, consult them with the remodel; had this idea of surprising the wife, and we paid and did this surprise makeover while she was out of town for a week. So we did two weeks of work in a week, we filmed it, it was an amazing transformation, and they got back, huge surprise... It was just so much fun and life-giving to be able to just give back to some friends in the community. So I think we want to do that on a bigger scale in our area, one because it's gonna make the curb appeal of our city better. It's going to bless people that maybe can't afford to do something like this... So that's our thing, is to keep doing that.

Slocomb Reed: That's awesome. Benjamin, thus far in your real estate investing, what is the biggest mistake you've made, and the best ever lesson that resulted from it?

Benjamin Goodpasture: I would say managing properties myself. Being the nice guy, trying to coordinate it, make it all work... It was the most stressful months in my life, dealing with a couple of tenants... I would say hiring a property manager -- management, especially in California... Here California, you know, there's a lot of laws, a lot of regulations... There's tenants that know the systems, they know how to work you over, and they know how to take advantage of you... So I do not do that anymore. It's allowed me to sleep better, it's given me more peace... So that was my kind of dream and vision anyways. This is supposed to be a passive endeavor. Even if you do have a manager, you're still gonna have some time. It's not fully passive, but it is much more passive if you're not managing it yourself.

Slocomb Reed: I get that. I self-manage here in Ohio. I do some management in Kentucky as well; not nearly the level of regulations in California. I was in eviction court last Friday morning... But also, when it comes to self-management, I have had a full-time W-2 maintenance person on my staff who wanted to rent one of my apartments, and he had to go through the full application process, and there were a few times while he lived in one of my apartments that he was late on rent, and I had to post a three-day notice on my own employee's door. Of course, I also knew that he made enough money to live there, and when his next paycheck was, because I was his employer... But as his property manager - yeah, I had to post a three-day notice on an employee a few times. Not fun. It takes an iron stomach, for sure...

Benjamin Goodpasture: Can I share a quick story?

Slocomb Reed: Absolutely. Please do.

Benjamin Goodpasture: I had a tenant house-hacking. We had someone live with us at a guest house. So we interviewed this person, great connection, it was an older lady... She would watch our kids, we had this amazing relationship... You could tell she really loved us, we really loved her... And then when it got time for us to move on, and we thought that she needed move on, it got ugly. I'm managing this, this is someone who I thought had our best interests... At the end, she was [unintelligible 00:30:18.08] We had to pay her $5,000 just to move, and it was awful. It caused so much tension on the relationship, it didn't end very well, I felt taken advantage of... So even someone that you trust and you think is for you, if they go through something hard, things can change.

Slocomb Reed: Last thing here before we move on... The words you just said that I've most resonated with was tension. As an active owner-operator, as a property manager, man, you've got to be able to handle some tension. I know for me one of the biggest difficulties has been finding the balance between compassion and dispassion in the operation of my apartment portfolio, for exactly the reasons that you and I just mentioned. On that note, Benjamin, what's your best ever advice?

Benjamin Goodpasture: So my best ever advice - I've got one for a newbie, and one for someone that's maybe a little more experienced. If you're a new investor, I would say get started now. Oftentimes we think we need more time to get ready... It's the whole quote saying "The best time to plant a tree is 30 years ago, the second-best time is today." Get started today. Start taking action. If you are an investor that's just started, maybe you've got a property, maybe you have two properties... My advice would be go big. Go big, dream big.

I've learned that if you want to have 10 properties, it's probably about the same amount of work is 50 properties. It's this whole mind set of how you look at it, who's going to do it... It's gonna take about the same amount of time, same amount of effort... There's only so many hours in the day. It's all leverage and delegating.

Slocomb Reed: Awesome. And where can people get in touch with you?

Benjamin Goodpasture: Benjamin Goodpasture. I'm on YouTube, I'm on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook... Also is our website. Like I said, we're investors, we have an investment company, but we also do mentorships. So we do consulting, we also have this mentorship program that we just launched, that's gonna be six months... We're going to open that up again in the future. But if you want to learn about real estate, check out my channel. If you want to get connected, just shoot me a DM.

Slocomb Reed: Those links are available in the show notes. Benjamin, thank you. Best Ever listeners, thank you as well for tuning in. If you've gained value from this episode, please do subscribe to our show, leave us a five star review, and share this with a friend who's in real estate investing or thinking about getting into real estate investing that you know that we can add value to through our episode today. Thank you, and have a best ever day.

Benjamin Goodpasture: Yeah, thanks.

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