July 31, 2023

JF3252: Matthew Amabile — The Roadmap to Financial Freedom for Young Investors, How to Use the Golden Nugget Mentality to Build Relationships, and Why You Should Partner Sooner Than You Think




Matthew Amabile is the owner of Amabile Investments and host of the Financial Freedom Fast podcast. He is well-known for retiring at the age of 25 through real estate investing. In this episode, Matthew lays out the four-step roadmap for how he achieved financial freedom so early in life, his trick for building relationships to find the best deals, and what to do when you can’t bring capital to the table.

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Matthew Amabile | Real Estate Background

  • Owner of Amabile Investments and host of the Financial Freedom Fast podcast
  • Portfolio:
    • Multifamily and single-family properties throughout NJ
  • Based in: Phillipsburg, NJ
  • Say hi to him at: 
  • Best Ever Book: $100M Offers by Alex Hormozi
  • Greatest Lesson: Keep expenses low to save more and invest in cash-flowing assets. Use partners to supercharge your investing.

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Ash Patel: Hello, Best Ever listeners. Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I'm Ash Patel, and I'm with today's guest, Matt Amabile. Matt is joining us from Phillipsburg, New Jersey. He is the owner of Amabile Investments, and a host of the Financial Freedom Fast Podcast. Matt's portfolio consists of properties throughout New Jersey. Matt, thank you for joining us, and how are you today?

Matt Amabile: Ash, doing great, man. I appreciate you having me on, and excited to dive in.

Ash Patel: It's our pleasure, Matt. Before we get started, can you give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and what you're focused on now?

Matt Amabile: Yes, so I came out of school, went on a $5,000 trip to Europe, and that is what got me in the financial mindset to start making passive income. I wanted to be able to travel the world and do those types of things. I was sleeping on my cousin's couch for a little while, and after that I started studying personal finance, because I wanted to get off that couch. And after I was doing that, I read Rich Dad Poor Dad, started buying small real estate, and then started partnering to buy other properties. I moved into commercial real estate, buying cashflow in real estate, got up to that passive cash flow number, went and traveled the world, started a podcast and continued to buy more real estate. So that's an abbreviated version of the past three years of my life or so.

Ash Patel: Alright, hold on... How do you go from sleeping on your cousin's couch to being able to buy real estate?

Matt Amabile: I was making $55,000 in New York, and that doesn't take you very long way. So that's the reason why I decided to sleep on my cousin's couch, pay him $400 a month. How did I go from there to buying real estate is I basically had this $55,000 hour job that I could show income, started studying real estate, listened to Bigger Pockets, listened to this podcast, read all the books, learned about house-hacking. So I bought a four-unit building with three and a half percent down, did an entire huge renovation on it with a 203-K renovation loan. I got into this building, I only needed $15,000 out of my own pocket to get into this thing, and now I live for free in this apartment. The other three apartments are rented out at $3,800 and my total costs on this building are $2,200 bucks a month.

Ash Patel: What's a 203-K loan?

Matt Amabile: A 203-K loan is an FHA version of a renovation loan. So you can couple in the purchase price and the renovation all into one large loan, and only put three and a half percent down into that loan. For instance, my first four-unit was $140,000 purchase, and it was a $125,000 renovation. So of that purchase price, I only had to bring three and a half percent down to the table, which is right around $9,000. Then I had closing costs and some other consultation costs that went into that, but it's a great low downpayment option to get into some renovation projects.

Ash Patel: Alright, you traveled Europe, you got the bug, and - was your goal to live large and travel, or just to live adequately and travel?

Matt Amabile: Definitely live adequately and travel. I'm a big believer that I don't need to stay in the crazy nice places or have the crazy nice things all around me. Traveling - I do travel to travel. I go out and see the world to see the world, and a lot of the world is free. So I can get out and see amazing views and do a lot of this stuff for a pretty low-budget way of living. I can still eat the good food and do the nice things, but I can keep it at a lower cost basis.

So right now, I can go and travel to Puerto Rico for a month, and it'll only end up costing me around $4,000 with everything - that's flights, where I'm staying, my Airbnb, and having activities to do every single day.

Ash Patel: Alright, if I do my math this house doesn't bring in exactly $4,000 a month. So what else do you have?

Matt Amabile: I've got a good mix of small multifamily... So I've got 16 units in small multifamily, between four and two units, and also some single families sprinkled in between there. Then on the commercial side I've got a six unit apartment building and a five unit I'm buying right now, and I'm leaning more towards that commercial space, because I can leverage other people's money a lot easier to get into those commercial properties.

Ash Patel: How much time do you spend managing these properties?

Matt Amabile: Every month I spend, I would say between two and five hours managing the properties. I hired one of my tenants actually in-house and lowered her rent, and I pay her a small salary every month to take all the phone calls, to manage all the contractors, to deal with the town, deal with any contracts, re-leases, things like that. So I don't really have to touch that side of the business too much.

Ash Patel: So that tenant is your property manager.

Matt Amabile: Correct, yeah.

Ash Patel: Okay, why lower her rent and pay her? Why not just give her free rent, or why not just pay her?

Matt Amabile: Honestly, I don't know. It was a good mix for me, and it was easier for me to make the decision. I think psychologically it was easier for me to decrease the amount that she had to pay me every month, rather than have something that's coming out of my pocket every single month. To be honest, I should talk to an accountant and find out a little bit further on what would make the most sense.

Ash Patel: No, look, you did the right thing, and I'm going to tell you why. From a financial perspective, it's kind of awash, whether you bring in less revenue, or increase your expenses and your salary. But I love what you did, because if you gave somebody just free rent, and said, "Okay, go manage all this property", it's not the same, right? They're getting something for free, and they're working, but they're not getting a salary. It's a mindset issue. I don't like giving people free rent, because they have no skin in the game. So I love what you did - discount the rent, but also pay. So she still has to write a rent check every month, but she also gets a salary, so it's a reward for working for you. And paying that discounted rent is another reward, but there's still skin in the game there.

Matt Amabile: Right. And that is it, too - a lot of this is creating healthy habits for... Well, one, for myself, but two, also for my tenants, to have them in the habit of paying the rent every single month. Now, what if I ran into a situation where I got a different property manager and I no longer wanted to work with her, and she has not been in this habit of paying her rent every single month? Then it's going to be a lot harder for her to tap back into that mentality of paying that rent. And yeah, I was able to subsidize some of this from some partner buildings that I'm in with other partners, that she manages... So some of the payment actually goes towards her as well, so it's less out of my pocket fully. But it ends up being awash. Her rent right now is $1,000, and she gets paid another $1,000 on top of that; her rent could be right around two grand right now, $1,800, and she gets paid another $1,000 bucks on top of that. So she basically lives for free through me by managing the properties, but that's what it ends up being.

Ash Patel: Look, you did the right thing. And like you said, you have the potential of creating a monster. Somebody that lives with no rent, and all of a sudden you need somebody else, or they're not doing a good job, you hire somebody else... It's like, "Hey, I need you to kick in that rent now." That's a weird thing, right? So good for you, man.

You come across as a very laid back dude. How do you find these properties?

Matt Amabile: I am a pretty laid back dude. I like to do my yoga, my meditation, my daily walks, take my dog out all, that type of stuff. How am I finding my properties? A lot of it is building relationships and having the conversations that aren't geared towards "Hey, I want to buy your property." I'm making phone calls to guys with portfolios.

So here's one actionable tip that you can literally do, is go on PropStream, or wherever you're pulling your list from, find property owners, and find property owners that own more than five properties in your specified area that you are looking to get into. So that means they own a portfolio in your area, and then make a phone call; skip trace and call these guys up. Especially if you're younger, this works really great. You can be like, "Hey, I'm a young guy in the area. I would love to be in a position that you are in right now and own as many properties as you own... And I'm trying to figure out how I can do that for myself. I'd love to pick your brain and find out more about that."

And then whatever it is - you have a conversation, you end up meeting them for coffee... Just build that relationship, nourish that relationship, and eventually, if and when they want to sell, they're going to remember the kid that wanted to build a portfolio that they have built for themselves. And honestly, out of those type of relationships, you not only have trust with the seller, but you're also getting a deal brought to you, and you're getting a killer deal.

Like, right now I'm buying a single family property, it's worth $140,000, I'm buying it for $100,000, and the seller is giving me $30,000 in seller financing on it, so I barely have to come with any money out of pocket to even close. And it's 0% seller financing.

So it's just building relationships and putting myself in the position to have the conversations with the guys who own properties is how I'm finding my properties.

Ash Patel: That single family house - how did you cultivate that relationship?

Matt Amabile: This seller was actually right outside of my property, outside of the house-hack that I'm doing this podcast from. He was right outside of my property, he was talking to somebody who lives at a five-unit right across the way... And I heard a little bit about real estate there. And whenever I hear real estate, it always clicks in my head. "Let me just tell these guys -- not even tell them what I do, but let me get involved in the conversation somehow." So I walked over, introduced myself, told them what I'm doing, and "I own this four unit here, it's my house-hack", this and that, told him about what I'm doing... And we just stayed connected. I got his phone number. Eventually, I called him back, I think a few months later we set up time to talk, I had conversations, and just kept calling him on the phone, having these conversations. Eventually, he offered me a two-unit, killer deal. The thing cashflows $1,200 a month off of this two unit, and I ended up buying that from him. And then we just stayed in touch, and he offered me this single family down the line. Also, he has a 19-unit property that he owns cash as well, that I'm sure down the line he'll probably offer that to me, too. Whether I take it, who knows...?

Ash Patel: Matt, when you have these conversations, in the back of your mind, is there going to be an ask, or are you looking for something? Or are you just altruistically having a conversation just to see if you can connect with somebody?

Matt Amabile: A lot of it I do like connecting with people. I like having conversations, I like being my true and open self, so those people can be their true and open self with me. And I love exploring that side of people. One mentality that I go into these conversations with is the golden nugget mentality. And I teach this a lot, actually, with students that I mentor, on this method of building relationships is the golden nugget mentality - having conversations with people, just looking for that one little golden nugget of information. Treat everybody like they know something that could save your life, and listen with the intent that they're telling you something that could save your life. So using that mentality, knowing that I'll find something out from this person; if I just talked to them openly and genuinely, that honestly just builds rapport with people. People love it when people pay attention to them and have these conversations. So I'm not always looking for properties out of people. Would I love to be offered properties and have an opportunity to buy your stuff? Absolutely. But usually, they're the ones that bring that up first, and then I'll just follow up with "Let's see what's out there and what can we tackle."

Ash Patel: Great advice. When I was young, born and raised in Jersey, one of my buddies who I was working with, a little bit older than I was - greatest piece of advice ever is "People love to talk about themselves." But I like what you said, and I'm going to add that to the backend of it... People love when you're paying attention to what they're saying. I love that; good for you. Speaking of Jersey, I can't tell you how many people I've talked to, "There's no good deals in Jersey." Tell me about that.

Matt Amabile: There's good deals everywhere, it's just you've got to find them, or they have to come to you. You have to believe that you're someone that's going to be able to find good deals. And a good deal is relative to everyone. So a good deal to one person might be that you have to fully get your capital injection out of that asset within one year of buying it, or a good deal to somebody else might be a 10% cash on cash return on investment.

So what I look for in my investments is the availability, the option, the opportunity to be able to cash out and pull all of my cash out within that first year by adding value to the property, and making sure that I have a decent equity split in there, or at least 30% equity stuck in that property. So if and when the market drops substantially, I'm still at or above market, and I'm not underwater, or I have the option to cash out and pull my capital back out of that deal. So deals are made, deals are not found. So can you create the deal, and can you bring the skills and knowledge to the table that is needed to make an opportunity?

Ash Patel: I love that, deals are made. Do you raise capital for your deals?

Matt Amabile: I partner on everything. So it's not raising capital in the sense that we have to do everything with the SEC, and do like a 503-B, and 503-C, anything like that. It's all JV agreements. So we do raise capital, but -- like, this five unit I'm buying right now, I'm going in with a partner as a JV, and that JV partner is bringing $150,000 capital to close on that building. And then I'm keeping 70% equity of that property, and he's taking 30% equity in that property. So for me, it's a no money down deal. I don't have to bring any capital to get this done. For him, it's a passive deal, he doesn't have to do anything. I am in charge of the stabilization plan, building it out, bringing in new tenants, I already have the renovations scheduled out, managing contractors, that side of things... And luckily, I have somebody on my team who I've trained pretty well to be able to do those things for me, so I don't have to be super-involved in that.

Ash Patel: It sounds like you want to continue to grow, do larger properties, which means a lot more of your time is going to be utilized in real estate. What is that going to do to your travel plans, and how's that going to work?

Matt Amabile: Well, I think where things are going to change -- I don't think my time that is dedicated towards real estate is going to change. I think that where I put my time and my focus realistically is going to change; the activities that I'm doing are going to change. What are the top 20% of activities that are making me my money and finding the deals and finding the new capital partners? ...and let me focus on only doing that 20%, and getting rid of the rest of the 80% that I'm doing that's just really busy work. If I want to continue to grow, I need to just focus on that 20%, and filter out the 80%. So as I want to grow into this new person, what top 20% of activities does that person have that has the $20 million in real estate, as opposed to the $5 million in real estate? And what can I start to [unintelligible 00:18:34.23] other people and focus on then?

So I think it's really changing my focus from doing little menial tasks and things that I shouldn't be doing right now... To more just have the capital conversations, have the deal finding conversations. Maybe I need to hire someone that does a little bit of underwriting for me on the backend so I don't have to do that. So I think it's being aware that as I grow, I need to take the tasks that were valuable back then, and then push them off as they become less valuable to me based on my time.

Ash Patel: That mentality there takes a long time for a lot of people to understand... Because it's easy to just take on more work and get inundated. So good for you for knowing that.

Break: [00:19:20.18]

Ash Patel: Look, a lot of young people that I have conversations with, they want your lifestyle; they don't want to work a lot. They want to travel a lot. Help build them a roadmap of what you've done. Let's start from your first job.

Matt Amabile: First job. So what you want to do is you want to maximize your income... And this is really as quick as you want to take it; you can make it as quick as you want to go. If you want to supercharge things, you want to maximize your income right now and decrease your expenses as much as possible. How could you maximize your income? You could job-hop. I increased my income from $55,000 to $150,000 within a year and a half, right after graduating college, just by jumping from one job, six months later, to another job, and then asking for even more money. So step one, increase your income and decrease your expenses.

Step two is going to be get into your first investment. Get into your first property. Usee a low downpayment option, or find a seller financed property that you could get into with a little bit of capital, and make sure that you have some reserves saved up so you could tackle it.

Now that you have a little bit of experience and knowledge and skills, then we just need to go out and find two things - a deal and a partner. So we go out and find a deal that we wanted to take down, a larger deal, and we find a partner that's willing to do it. In real estate we need four things. We need time, capital, knowledge and a deal. So if we can bring time, knowledge and a deal, somebody else will be able to bring the capital.

So now we have experience, we've got the time - go find the deal, and then find the capital, find the partner who's going to bring that capital and get the deal done. And now you can start to buy real estate with none of your own money, and start working with other people to get these deals done, because you're bringing skills to the table. And that will actually allow you to quit your job sooner, because now you've got some passive income from your original investments, and you're starting to buy investments with other people, but you also don't need your own money to buy more investments. So you could confidently get out of your job knowing that you'll be able to focus your time to buy more assets and buy bigger assets, because you don't need to be the one who saves up $400,000 to go buy an asset. So I would say increase the income, decrease the expenses, buy one asset, and then leverage the skills and experience from that asset to go buy more with a partner.

Ash Patel: Brilliant. I wish a lot of young people can hear this. That's incredible. And the job-hopping thing - it's easy to become complacent at a job. So you're right, use your skills, job-hop, test the market. And the other thing is keep your living expenses low. You can't have both. You can't have your investment property and the flashy car that gives you a lot of attention.

Matt Amabile: That's right. I drive a 2005 Honda Civic, and I'm millionaire at this point. I practice yoga in my 2005 Honda Civic, and my tenants - I would say 95% of my tenants have nicer cars than me, but they're still paying me rent every month. It's not about the cars, the belts, the things, the houses, the places, it's really about the experiences that we're having and the people we're meeting and how we're growing as a human being, I think.

Ash Patel: Yeah. Matt, so you've got a great story... What's an example of a failure that you've had in this business - scaling, partners, capital, whatever; what's a failure you wish you didn't have to endure?

Matt Amabile: Yeah, this is actually a really beautiful failure, because it turns out great... As do all failures. I look at every failure as a lesson. It's got something to teach us. It's got something we could take from it. But my first property here, this fourplex, it's not all it seems to be. The numbers are great now; the numbers were not great when I first bought it. It was a foreclosed [unintelligible 00:25:11.11] property, and this thing took a year and a half to complete. What do I wish I would have done differently? What was the failure? The failure is making this thing take a year and a half. Granted, it was in the middle of COVID, but I should have been on top of my contractors, and not just trusting... I think a big lesson here is trust, but verify. I was being told that things were getting done, I was being told that things were moving along, and I didn't really care as much about the property, because people were telling me things were getting done... And every time I would come here, I would see that they said that this was done, and it hasn't even started moving yet. I had contractors fail out, and the town had to come in and re inspect this property eight times, the bank came out and reinspected... It took so long to get tenants in here, which was such a failure, but that failure turned out to be great.

So what I would say is that first project really is important to dial yourself in and make sure that you're staying on top of the people that are doing the things, and the things that need to be done to make your project a success.

Ash Patel: If you're in Puerto Rico for four weeks, how much time are you spending checking in on things? Even checking emails. Are you completely zoned out, or are you still remotely staying on top of things?

Matt Amabile: No, I definitely remotely stay on top of things. Travel's a lifestyle for me. I only travel once a year, and this is my time off. I don't even want to do anything with work. Travel is a lifestyle for me that I'd like to live. So if travel is what I want to do and how I want to operate a good majority of the time, half a year at a time, then I need to be able to check in on my email, and get the work done, and communicate with my property manager, and make sure that projects are still moving. So I'm still looking in... I was out in Paris for two months this year in February, and I would say weekly I was probably checking in on the property side of things, probably two hours a week or so... And then I was also building out my podcasts, and doing things like that.

So I've always got some type of passion project going on, and then the business side of things, trying to automate that as much as possible. But this entrepreneur lifestyle -that's what it is, it's a lifestyle; it's not just 40 hours a week. This is what you do, it's a life.

Ash Patel: Yeah, thank you for sharing that, because I don't want anybody being delusional, thinking "This is cool. I can just go two months and have everything on autopilot." It really doesn't work that way; you're still in charge of everything. I mean, these are your properties, you are beholden to your investors, you've got to make sure your tenants are taken care of... So yeah, it's not all autopilot, right? You've got to put some time in.

Matt Amabile: Right. And I think that social media has made it look like it. And I'm bad -- I'll post up on social media, "Just out here at this beach, doing this on a Tuesday." But it's like, I've still got my laptop with me. If I've got issues, I need to handle them. But everybody only posts the good on social media; they don't post the 80% of the bad. They're not seeing the hard side of things, and they glamorize it more than it is. So it's hard work, but hard work does pay off in the sense that you can create a life of freedom to do what you want. And realistically, you can have the option to work... I have things in my life that are important, and things that are urgent. And most of the time, things that are important are not urgent, and the things that are urgent are not important to me. So you've got to learn to focus on what is important and what is urgent. And whatever's urgent, you most likely don't need to focus on too much, because it's probably not important. That's just a little offspring that I --

Ash Patel: Matt, do you have a number that you're trying to achieve in terms of net worth or passive income? I don't want a number, but I just want to know if you have a goal.

Matt Amabile: Yeah, at 30 years old I'd like to be at $30,000 a month in passive income, which I think I should be there within two years realistically... But to take it easy and light, I should be there by 30.

Ash Patel: Alright. So once you do that, are you going to start living large?

Matt Amabile: I don't know, man. I'm pretty low-key. The 30 grand is for me and my family. I don't have kids, I don't have anything like that. But when I do have kids and a wife, I think $30,000 a month should be able to give us a lifestyle where we could travel and do things, but also just keep my family safe and protected and good at home.

Ash Patel: Yeah. Matt, tell me more about your mentoring and your podcast.

Matt Amabile: Yeah, so my podcast is called Financial Freedom Fast Podcast, and it's really just more of a way for me selfishly to network with entrepreneurs and investors and people doing big things. I'm a big believer in proximity to these types of people, whether it's just conversations online can increase how you are viewing things and expand your mind and put you in a different position than you were in previously. So selfishly, I started this podcast so I could have these conversations with people and easily get them in the room to talk with them. And now that I'm doing it, I'm seeing that I'm providing a ton of value. People are taking my tips and knowledge and coming to me and saying, "Oh, I tried out this", or "I submitted this seller finance letter of intent that you gave to me, and we got an offer accepted." And that was really amazing for me to see.

So actually, from that, I had people reaching out to me and asking me if I was doing any type of mentorship or doing a program, which made me create a mentorship and a program, which I had slightly done before, but now it's a little bit more structured. My mentorship focuses around finding partners to be able to do deals, so you can get into low and no money down deals by bringing skills to the table, and making opportunities happen. So how can we find those partners, and how can we make sure that the right partners for us? And yeah, that's done through a virtual course, it's done through a one on one mentorship with me, and then an online community of students and people that have been on my podcast all working together to get deals done.

Ash Patel: I love it. Matt, what is your best real estate investing advice ever?

Matt Amabile: My best real estate investing advice ever is to partner sooner than you would expect to partner. So don't get yourself locked into the idea that you need to keep on saving up 20% down to get into a property every single year. It's going to take you a long time. Some people do it, and it could be done quickly if you're making a lot of money. But if you're not making half a million dollars a year, get skills and then leverage those skills to get into partnerships so you can buy properties with low money down, and then just bring those skills to the table and get it done. So partner sooner than you would expect to.

Ash Patel: Yeah, two keys there is have the skills. You mentioned this earlier - you've got to have a deal, you'v got to have the knowledge if you don't have the money. You can't start from zero and just try to put all these pieces together. It's going to backfire. You've got to put the time in, get the knowledge, get the right deal, get the right partner. So listen, great conversation here... Let's wrap up with the Best Ever Lightning Round. You ready?

Matt Amabile: Ready to go.

Ash Patel: Alright, Matt, what's the Best Ever book you recently read?

Matt Amabile: $100 million Offers by Alex Hormozi.

Ash Patel: I'm reading that now. What's your big takeaway from that?

Matt Amabile: My big takeaway is that whatever product, service or value you're bringing to the table, there's issues that you could predict that somebody else may have with those issues... So you should pre-predict them and have a plan to go around those issues and to solve those problems for that person.

Ash Patel: Matt, what's the Best Ever way you like to give back?

Matt Amabile: I have a scholarship that I started for my friend Joey [unintelligible 00:33:11.12] who passed away when I was a sophomore in high school; he was my best friend. So I put this scholarship together, and this year we gave away $2,200 in scholarships, and my goal is to grow that to $10,000 a year for a student going to college. So that's my favorite way to give back right now.

Ash Patel: Matt, how can the Best Ever listeners reach out to you?

Matt Amabile: You can find me on Instagram at Matt Amabile. Facebook, YouTube, you can also find me on the podcast app, Financial Freedom Fast Podcast.

Ash Patel: Matt, what a great conversation. Best Ever listeners, Matt looks the part, too. He's sitting there, he's this jacked dude, with a black tank top on... You're the first person I've ever interviewed wearing a tank top, man. What a great conversation... The young people out there that are getting started - re-listen to this one a couple times. Matt's advice on building relationships is golden. And look, we've only been talking a half hour... I want to hang out with you.

Matt Amabile: Yeah. [laughs] Let's do it, man.

Ash Patel: Thank you so much for your time today, Matt.

Matt Amabile: I appreciate you, Ash. Thanks for having me on.

Ash Patel: Best Ever listeners, thank you for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a five star review, share this podcast with someone you think can benefit from it. Also, follow, subscribe, and have a Best Ever day.

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The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are provided for informational purposes only, and should not be construed as an offer to buy or sell any securities or to make or consider any investment or course of action. For more information, go to www.bestevershow.com.

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