March 4, 2024

JF3469: The Psychology of Investing and Why NOW Is the Time to Be Opportunistic in Multifamily ft. Ravi Gupta MD




Ravi Gupta is a managing partner and COO at Viking Capital Investments, a multifamily syndication company. Today, he joins host Ash Patel on the Best Ever Show. Ravi is a trained physician who, with his partner, Vikram Raya, went from investing as a hobby to raising more than $230 million in equity and acquiring more than $800 million in real estate. In this episode, Ravi discusses the mindset shift that must happen to pivot from your W2 job to being a syndicator or full-time investor, having an impact by improving communities through multifamily investing, and why the biggest opportunity in multifamily is available right now.

Ravi Gupta | Real Estate Background

  • Managing Partner/ COO Viking Capital Investments
  • Portfolio
    •  16 Multifamily Units
  • Based in: Fairfax, Virginia
  • Say hi to him at: 
  • Best Ever Book: Multi-family Millions by David Lindahl

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Ash Patel (00:31.387)
Hello, best ever listeners. Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I'm Ash Patel and I'm with today's guest, Ravi Gupta. Ravi is joining us from Fairfax, Virginia. He is the managing partner and COO of Viking Capital Investments, where they believe that real estate syndications offer a compelling investment option for individuals looking to build wealth through commercial real estate. Ravi's portfolio consists of 16 multifamily properties.

Ravi, thank you for joining us and how are you today?

Ravi Gupta MD (01:01.922)
Wonderful Ash, it's a pleasure being here. Thank you for having me.

Ash Patel (01:05.123)
The pleasure is ours. Ravi, if you would, can you give the best ever listeners a little bit more about your background and what you're focused on now?

Ravi Gupta MD (01:12.226)
Sure, happy to do it. So I trained as a physician. I worked and practiced in Northern Virginia for a number of years as a hospitalist physician focusing on inpatient adult care. And my partner and I, who you just, we just spoke about this prior to the podcast starting, Vikram Raya, who I'm sure many of you know, he's more of the face of the company. I'm more in the background and doing the operations type stuff.

Both he and I, we're talking about our interests, and we both had an interest in real estate. We both had small portfolios of our own. He had some in the residential space, some single family homes. I had some in the also residential space, but also had some smaller multifamily properties of mine. So we were talking about our investments and how we could potentially collaborate and do something bigger. And also we found that our friends and family were interested in learning how we invested and they also wanted to invest with us.

We thought this was the perfect vehicle to get all of us together and, and invest as one. So that's what we did. We started these small syndications. We started as co-GPs and certain deals and helped raise capital and manage the asset. And we grew and grew from there to the point where we are today and you know, we're really blessed and grateful to have what we have and really it goes to show how many people really trusted our trust in us. And, 
appreciated us and we're happy to share our successes with all of them.

Ash Patel (02:45.071)
Ravi, if you would give our best ever listeners a bit about the scale at which you guys operate today. Some metrics on assets under management, acquisitions that you've done recently.

Ravi Gupta MD (02:57.142)
Absolutely. So let's start with, you know, sort of what, where, you know, where we operate. We operate in the, the multifamily space. We look at 200 to 400 unit properties. And we have just recently acquired, I believe our 27th property.

The latest acquirement was in Atlanta and we really focus much of our attention in Atlanta. It's an area where Vikram grew up, his father's there, who is also part of our company for a while. And we really like that city, we know it well. We also have what you would call an unfair advantage in Atlanta because we do have a ground level presence and we have the property measure company that we use is based in Atlanta. So the last property was a 200 plus unit property, 1980s, build value add that we got for a very low cost basis. And that's what we're looking at this time in the economic cycle.

You can find these properties with a really nice cost basis. And that's what we're looking for. Currently we've transacted on around 750 million of real estate and we've raised about 250 million of capital and we have approximately 2000 doors under management currently.

Ash Patel (04:28.675)
And thank you. And that gives our audience a perspective of where you're at today. I want to flip the script on this interview a little bit. I want to talk about mindset and maybe deep dive into that. Here we have two doctors that were dabbling in real estate. How do you go from that to raising 250 million dollars, transacting 750 million dollars? What mindset struggles did you guys have? Did you overcome? And do you have now?

Ravi Gupta MD (04:56.15)
Yeah, that's an excellent question and it's so important. Because what I've heard from our coaches and advisors is this message that came to us very often was that, whatever you're focused on, it's just, it's another number, right? It's another, maybe another metric that you don't have to get bogged down on, but understand that people have gotten there before.

So, what I mean by that is, example was, we were looking at growing our portfolio and we had maybe 100 million of assets under management and our advisor mentioned one billion and we were like, wow, that sounds insanely high. He's like, hey, look, people have done it before. It's just a number, don't think about it, focus and put one foot in front of the other and then you can achieve whatever you want. So that was an important message, but let me step back a bit.

And I want to talk about having the proper mindset as an entrepreneur, because as a physician, you really are trained to put your head down, get your work done, not complain, work nights, work weekends, whatever it takes and do what you need to do. And that's how both Vikram and I operated for a long period of time. And we're also, you also are trained to be very analytical and risk averse.

And whenever you're getting into a situation that is, you know, potentially risky, it is not something that you can necessarily, you can't necessarily project the outcomes, you can only postulate it's, you know, to a certain degree, it's, it's hard to grasp that concept and, and investing is that, you know, it's something a bit risky. You don't really understand, you don't truly know what you're getting yourself into. You can only guess, give it your best guess. And it required me to shift my mindset from someone who is focused on doing work to someone who's offering someone an opportunity, someone who, you know, in my mind, at the time was selling something.

Um, so I actually want to distinguish those two things, selling and offering an opportunity because when I first started, I was thinking, so, you know, Hey, look, I'm in this field in the space. I'm a physician, but now I'm becoming a salesman because I'm trying to get people into my syndication. And I didn't sit well with me and I, you know, for a long time I struggled with that. In fact, when I would talk to people often, I came in with that mindset and they're like, you know, I felt like if somebody said, I'm not interested, I admit it was a like a kind of a gut punch.

But then what I realized over time was, hey, actually, what I'm doing is offering these people an opportunity to invest with me. They're giving this opportunity to get into something that they fully don't understand. And as I became more invested in the space, really understood more of what I was doing. I realized that it was it was a it was a grand opportunity in some circumstances to invest. In fact, it was such an opportunity that we overfilled almost every one of our deals because people were struggling to get in. So when that mindset shifted from the salesperson to the opportunity, that was one of the major mind shifts that occurred for me that allowed me to take it to the next level.

So, you know, just to sum up, it was, it was the mindset shift that hey, you know, it's just a number. Don't focus on that. Just focus on getting one foot in front of the other. It was a shift that you're not selling something, but you're giving someone the opportunity to invest. And then the other mindset also is that, you know, you have the ability and tools to invest like everyone else. It's not rocket science. It's not neurosurgery. You know, it's something that's easily learned.

If you're a professional, that has been somewhat accomplished in your field, you can easily pick this up. And you just have to be diligent about learning it. You have to put certain metrics in place, make sure you hit your goals, but you learn these tools, these techniques, and anyone could do what we're doing.

Ash Patel (09:29.827)
You know, Joe Fairless, recently him and I gave a speech about the biggest mistakes that we've made. And one of the things he talked about in raising capital was if you master your craft, you owe it to others to share in that upside and you're being selfish if you don't let investors share into that. And, you know, for me, it took me the better part of 10 years to get comfortable with taking investor capital. I never wanted the burden. I didn't want the responsibility.

And what shifted with me was I realized a lot of my high net worth buddies were investing in bars, restaurants, crypto schemes, marijuana companies, and none of them were returning any money, right? There were no returns. These investments all were awash eventually. And I finally realized that I'd be doing these guys and girls a favor if I let them into some of these deals. And that was a huge mindset shift for me.

And what you pointed out, I've had a lot of people that I've interviewed that have said, yeah, I'm not a salesperson. I don't like to sell these deals. You're not selling. And like you said, you're presenting an opportunity and you owe it to the people around you to let them benefit from these opportunities that you're making a lot of money on. So I'm glad you brought that up. You know, you said, let's go back to when we were doing a hundred million dollars. How about we go back to when you're doing a million dollars?

Let's go back to the beginning, right? Here you guys are, you're two physicians. My guess is you're working a lot of hours. You're dabbling in real estate for whatever reason. Maybe that's a tax benefit. And actually, why were you doing that? Was it a tax benefit? Was it to build wealth? Or was it just a side hustle? Let's see where it goes.

Ravi Gupta MD (11:17.622)
Yeah, I mean, it was a little bit of all of that. I can tell you with my practice in medicine, I was feeling that I reached sort of a glass ceiling of where I could be and what I was doing. And I was very interested in pursuing other types of options. And I wasn't completely satisfied in that. So that was an incentive to look at other types of investing and also, so it was somewhat of an identity shift for me that was needed. That was part of it.

The other part was certainly tax incentives. Other part was certainly wealth building because as I mentioned before, I invested in some multifamily assets before and I saw the power of real estate and my wife and I invested in these and we were able to both pull back in our clinical duty. She's a physician as well. So I was like, oh, this is amazing, with these small, just four small investments, we're able to do this, with a larger scale investment, imagine what we can build. So it was all of it.

Ash Patel (12:24.291)
You're passionate about real estate and that's certainly evident. Were you as passionate about medicine?

Ravi Gupta MD (12:31.394)
Yeah, yeah, I actually I feel like I am equally passionate. In fact, like if I look at the type of person I am, I've done a lot of like a lot of introspection and deep dives. And I know a lot of you, your listeners have heard of Tony Robbins and have, you know, gone to his seminars and courses and things of that sort. And I've done that too. And I've gained a lot from that.

But what I've a person that is a healer, a person that really cares about the wellbeing of others and not only just the people but the planet as well. I'm very focused on sustainability and I want to make sure that whatever action I take is good for the whole community as a whole.

In that light, the practice of medicine is completely fits. And in fact, I now practice functional medicine, which is truly my passion. Functional medicine is the medicine of health and wellbeing, optimizing people's health by lifestyle and getting people off medications instead of putting them on medications, focusing on lifestyle supplements and that type of thing. And in real estate, my focus is is obviously building wealth for our investors, for ourselves, and then also improving the communities that we serve. And that's a huge drive for me.

I know a lot of operators that will just squeeze a property dry and try to juice everything out of it and try to sell it for organic appreciation. And sometimes they make a killing and the property is like decimated and somebody else is there to clean it up.

Sometimes they get hit hard and for me that's just absolutely the wrong way to go. I believe in building a community, improving it, improving the tenants' lives, giving back to them. So it's all of this sort of fit, it aligns with my passions and my purpose.

Ash Patel (14:48.171)
At your properties, how do you improve your tenants lives? What's something out of the box that you do?

Ravi Gupta MD (14:54.23)
Yeah, and I'll bring this back to the question you asked me as to how we got started, the first million dollars we invested. So we had this one property that we purchased, it was called Ascent at Riverdale. It's a funny story how we were, how we were awarded the property because we put in an offer for $4.125 million on a 118 unit property.

You can imagine, I mean, this was like in South Atlanta. Um, and the cost per door is just insanely low, but at the time this was what would go for him. Um, and, uh, we lost it and we were like, okay, that's fine. You know, this is our first one. We'll just continue to try to get another. And then it so happened that there was a shooting on the property, um, like a couple of weeks after it was awarded to the initial person that won it. And, uh, that guy was like, he's like, hell no, I'm out of this. This is way too much for me. And then when we heard that, the seller came back to us, they're like, okay, you guys are number two, do you want it? And we're like, hell yeah, we'll take it. We'll deal with the shooting.

So we did, we took it over and we saw that there was a fractured condo complex next door and that was where the criminals would hang out. Like you had prostitutes, you had dead dogs, you had, I mean, literally you name it, it was there. It was crazy drug deals. Um, so what we did was we bought that one property. We bought that one next door. We, we bought each condo complex from multiple owners or each of those fractions from multiple owners. It was an insane deal.

Um, and a lot of, it was very time consuming, very, very scary, but we actually completely package that, put it together and create a new part, a brand new apartment complex practically out of that. So then we had this, you know, two of these units. So we had, two apartment complexes, we improved them both tremendously. We totally up-leveled the tenant base. So prior to that, you could actually Google that apartment complex and look at YouTube videos of all these fights that would break out. And this was like, I mean, this would get thousands and thousands of views. People would look for fights at this apartment complex and Google it and watch as Noble Oaks. So if you're YouTube, Noble Oaks fights, you'll find a lot of, you know, you'll see a lot of good ones, a lot of entertaining fights there.

So that all stopped. The apartment community improved. We initiated this program called Wellness Wednesdays where we spoke about a wellness topic, or we presented a wellness topic every so often. We had these giveaways for kids, for school kids, so we supplied them backpacks and school supplies.

Um, you know, we created a safe spot for, uh, pickups, um, you know, for the parents. Um, so this is how we improved. We tremendously improved that community. Um, all that crime and the craziness actually just completely dissipated because that fractured condo complex was, was just, you know, taken care of. And we made a lot of money doing it. So it was like a win, win. Um, and, and that's how we operate. Oh, one last thing. We actually did the first solar lighting uh, first solar lighting production on that complex. Now it ultimately, unfortunately didn't work. There were some issues with the batteries. Um, and I learned a lesson there not to do, not to be the number one to do these types of things, but, um, it was fine. It was, it was just a few drops in the bucket at the end of the day, but, um, that's how we improve communities.

Ash Patel (18:39.831)
Yeah, let's go back to scaling when you have a job and you mentioned your identity. What was your identity? Were you guys real estate investors? Were you physicians? And what are you now? And then what do you want to be when you grow up?

Ravi Gupta MD (18:56.602)
Yeah, that's a great question. So my identity prior to all this investing and entrepreneurship was a physician. I still identify myself as that. You can see an MD by my name and I just did that without even thinking. I just put my name in and it's because that's my identity. And when I started the company, it actually shifted to an entrepreneur and identify myself as an entrepreneur now, which is so interesting in so many ways because for me that was a, it just opened up so much in terms of growth, in terms of learning, in terms of contributing, ways that I never really knew existed and it opened up a lot of blind spots. In fact, I was talking to a friend recently and we're just chatting about, also a physician, we're chatting about our journey in entrepreneurship.

And we both agreed that without the entrepreneurship part of our lives, we'd really feel like we'd be stuck in some kind of rut, but being an entrepreneur, it, it's just, it shifts you in that it, it just opens up possibilities because you have to be open to possibilities to succeed. If you're, you know, if you shut yourself down, you're not going to grow. You have to learn, you have to grow. You have to try something new. You know, if you fail, you know, it's cliche, but there's no such thing as a failure.

It's very true. It's not a failure. It's a learning experience. Just like I mentioned to you that solar project, it's a learning experience. Now we're putting, now we're talking about putting these massive solar projects on the roofs of our apartment complex. Complete shift from what we did before, but I'm glad I tried that because I learned from that. Now I'm doing something different and I know how to do it correctly. So that's what, that's how my identity shifted over time.

Ash Patel (20:51.031)
Ravi, I'm sure you mentor a lot of young people. What is the biggest mindset struggle? Let's focus on real estate folks that you mentor. What's the lowest hanging fruit, easiest to correct, and most widespread mindset hurdle that you encounter?

Ravi Gupta MD (21:09.322)
Yes, I think the biggest one is that, is being an imposter, like the sort of the imposter syndrome, feeling that you should not be where you are. We mentor a lot of physicians, that's just our niche, and many of them feel that way. They're like, well, hey, look, I feel kind of weird, I feel off being here, I don't feel right.

And I don't know if I should truly be in the space and many of them just, you know, fall back and go right back to where they were before. Um, you know, it's a golden handcuffs, right? You're, you're a high income earner and nobody's feeling sorry for you cause you're not, it's not like you're living in, you know, um, destitution or something like that, but it's your, you are, um, bound by the amount of hours you put into your job. Um, you're not earning money while you sleep as Warren Buffett says, that's, you know, that's where the riches come.

Um, but that, that is really what it is. It's getting beyond that and understanding that you have every right to be in this space. Um, and you can achieve whatever you set to mind, your, whatever you set your mind to, you just have to have the right person to follow. You have to, you have to have the right mentorship, um, and the right goals. And then you have to just, you know, iterate, iterate and iterate until it happens. Don't be afraid of failure. Just view it as a learning opportunity.

Um, and you know, the other thing is when you're, when you are a high income earner, a professional in this space, you can always say, Hey, look, I'm, I'm doing this as an experiment. If it doesn't work, I can fall. I'm lucky enough to fall back on something, you know, as a fulfilling and lucrative as my, my career was, but I'm going to do something to better myself.

Ash Patel (23:01.231)
Did you go through that imposter syndrome stage?

Ravi Gupta MD (23:05.782)
Yeah, absolutely. And that's where it switched when I realized I was offering people an opportunity and not selling.

Ash Patel (23:14.147)
Yeah, and I did as well. And, um, I just saw a Tony Robbins video and he said, the imposter syndrome is BS. It's just low self-worth. And, uh, I spent a lot of time thinking about that and turns out I think that, uh, made a lot of sense. What's another mindset struggle from people that are successful in real estate, but they can't seem to scale up.

Ravi Gupta MD (23:40.65)
I think the other thing is focusing on the wrong thing. You know, we just talked about Tony Robbins. We, you know, both of us are like him, are, you know, follow his teachings. And I'm sure many of your listeners do as well, but he talks about, he does about the triad, right? You know, it's like your foot where your, your state comes from your focus, your belief systems, your physiology or the way you carry yourself and the language you use.

So many people, their focus is on the negative, what will happen if this happens and this happens and that becomes a huge issue and it causes so much stress to the point where people just back away. But there's a couple of ways to combat that. Number one is focusing on what you've accomplished.

You know, don't focus on what you think the ideal would be. Focus on what you have done to this point. And there's a great book called The Gap and the Gain by Dan Sullivan. And he talks exactly about this. It's a simple concept. He just kind of makes it. He calls it the gap and the gain gives it a, a term. But it's useful to say it's easy to say, but you want to be in the game, not the gap, right?

You wanna focus, you don't wanna focus on all the negative or the what ifs that could happen. You really want to focus on what you've accomplished thus far and the potential that you have. And then also you want to trust that whatever positive energy you put out there, your goals and ideas will come to fruition. And trust in that positive energy, that source energy.

I'm talking a little bit about the metaphysical world or a kind of like a higher energy space. But I completely believe in that. I feel like it's helped me tremendously. And when you put that faith into something else and you have those goals in mind and you're doing what you can do to make it happen and you have the coaching and mentorship to do it, then it's going to happen. Whatever you put your mind to will happen.

Ash Patel (26:00.111)
How important is it to have a why?

Ravi Gupta MD (26:03.674)
Oh, I think that's fundamentally important. That's what causes people to shift. I mean, and if you don't really, if you have a goal, but you're just not really in it, you're just, I don't know if I really wanna do it, then your why isn't strong enough. So I would say you really have to solidify that why before you tackle anything. You know, you asked me earlier, why do I want to get into real estate investing.

Well, um, and I can tell you my why right now is because, you know, my goal is to improve the lives of others, um, and make this, you know, make the communities better, make the world a better place, and then also improve, you know, my financial situation. But the truth of the matter is, and you know, I'm, I feel very blessed and grateful to be in a situation where, you know, financially I'm doing okay. You know, I, I'm not living a extravagant life where I'm on a yacht, sailing to my island, and nor do I even want that. That's not who I am, but I'm at a position financially where I could just stop and watch Netflix for the rest of my life, and I'd be okay. But I don't want to do that. That's not who I am, that's what I'm about, and it's because of my why. I'm here to make these changes in my lifetime, and that's why I'm doing what I'm doing.

Ash Patel (27:32.579)
Ravi, do you still have coaches?

Ravi Gupta MD (27:35.499)
Yes, I do.

Ash Patel (27:37.571)
Okay. Now, you know, from a lot of outsiders looking in, you've achieved monumental success. Why did this guy should be a coach? Why do you have coaches?

Ravi Gupta MD (27:46.958)
Well, I think everyone needs a coach, not even the best coaches. You know, you, we were talking about Tony Robbins. I use him as an example. He has multiple coaches. Um, everyone needs a coach. And the reason is, and this is an analogy, I like to share with people is that like, if you, for example, are sailing from one, uh, from one Island to another, you've never been to that other Island before. Um, and you try to do it alone, you know, you're, you may get there but then you're going to run into potentially, you know, obstructions rocks. You may run into storms. You don't know how to navigate them.

You may want to turn back around, you know, you may just stay on circles, but if you have someone guiding you that will, that has been there before has done that, you know, knows how to sail that ship that can, you know, tell you how to navigate through a storm. Um, then you're going to get there much more quickly, much more easily, and you're going to hit your goal. Uh, regardless of how you were before, you hit your goal much quicker. So that is the reason to get a coach to help you succeed in your life, in your business or whatever goals you have. It's, I think it's very important.

Ash Patel (28:59.467)
And again, I appreciate this conversation. Another off the wall topic. Um, another book by, I believe Dan Sullivan was, was it dance rocket fuel? Um, they talk about every organization needs a visionary and an integrator between you and Vikram are one of you, the visionary and one is the integrator.

Ravi Gupta MD (29:08.97)
Okay, yeah, I'm not familiar with that one.

Ravi Gupta MD (29:20.862)
Yes, absolutely. And there's another book, Gino Wickman, written by Gino Wickman called Traction, same concept. You absolutely need that. And Vikram is a visionary on the integrator. That's exactly how we're wired. You know, he's got tons of ideas on the one looking at those ideas and being like, ah, I'm not really feeling that, or we're not doing that, or yes, this makes a lot of sense. That dynamic is, I feel like is critical enough company.

Ash Patel (29:52.291)
Ravi, speaking to our best ever listeners, a lot of them that may want to achieve the level of success that you have, but maybe are starting out or a few years into it, What is your best real estate investing advice ever? for those folks?

Ravi Gupta MD (30:09.554)
I would say start now. Again, people say that all the time, but I mean, I mean, I really mean start now. for several reasons. One of them is because we're in an economic climate, you know, we're recording December or January 24th, 2024. That's when we're recording this conversation. Um, At this time, there, you know, we're hitting a point in the economic cycle where there's fear.

People don't know what to expect. You know, there's they're concerned about a recession. They're concerned about You know the Middle East Destabilization there, you know people are concerned about a lot of different types of things and Because of that people have a tendency to just go, you know go inward and hold on to their cash and you know not look at opportunities but this is the time to be opportunistic because there are so many deals to be had. 

There are people that are just as fearful as you and they're acting on it in that they're selling based on emotion. They're like, I wanna get out of this deal. I wanna get this asset off my hands. I wanna cash in what I have. And that's where you can be opportunistic. As long as you understand the fundamentals of what you're doing, you understand the basic investment structures of like, we're talking about multifamily deals now, of a multifamily syndication or multifamily management, you understand that.

You can be opportunistic and purchase those and you can change your life in the next six months to a year. And I don't mean that lightly. I can tell, I'll give you an example. There's a friend of mine that I was talking to who recently bought a 35 unit apartment complex, his first one. It was a distressed asset, you know, many people would have just passed it over saying, Hey, I'm not, I'm not even going to consider this, but he did his due diligence. He understood the asset. He got coaching. He, um, underwrote it properly. He shared his underwriting with experts and he vetted it in so many different ways and realized that there's so much meat on the bone in this particular deal. And he bought it and he's implementing his business plan and it's already doing incredibly well.

And he's going to change his life. I mean, he's, he's a physician, his wife's a physician, but this asset is going to change his life because it's going to generate so much cashflow for him. You know, he has plans for his wife to stop working where she is and, uh, you know, and take another job. There's a risk there, but because they're having, they have this additional income, they don't have to worry about that as much. Um, so that's the, that's the piece of advice I would give, uh, your, your listeners to start now.

Ash Patel (33:00.313)
Ravi, are you ready for the best ever lightning round?

All right, what is the best ever book you recently read, Ravi?

Ravi Gupta MD (35:09.538)
Well, I'm gonna give you two. One of them is more for fun. It's Ken Follett, the King Bridge series. So there's five books in that series, but really interesting reading. If you're interested in historical fiction, check it out. Ken Follett is the author. We mentioned Gap in the Game by Dan Sullivan. I'm reading that currently. That's another book I'm reading right now.

Ash Patel (35:31.535)
What is the best ever way you like to give back?

Ravi Gupta MD (35:35.026)
As I mentioned, I'm very much into environmental sustainability. So there's a, there's an organization called one tree planted for every dollar you donate, they'll plant one tree. So we donate a lot to one tree planted.

Ash Patel (35:47.863)
And Ravi, how can the best ever listeners reach out to you?

Ravi Gupta MD (35:51.274)
Absolutely. You can check out our website, You can check out my personal webpage,, or you can just email me personally. My email is

Ash Patel (36:06.883)
And best ever listeners, by all means Google Joe Fairless and Vikram Raya and Ravi's partner Vikram's episode will pop up. That was a great interview as well. You can learn more and more about Viking capital through that interview as well. Ravi, listen, man, we, I don't know what you expected when you turned on your microphone today, but thank you so much. We had a great conversation, thoroughly enjoyed it. And I think you added a lot of value to our best ever listeners.

Ravi Gupta MD (36:33.334)
Wonderful, I'm happy to do it. Thanks, Ash.

Ash Patel (36:35.695)
And best ever listeners, thank you for joining us as well. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a five star review. Share this podcast with someone you think can benefit from and also follow, subscribe and have a best ever day.

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