January 14, 2024

JF3419: The Ins and Outs of European Real Estate Development ft. Daniel Wood




Daniel Wood, a real estate developer and event promoter from Sweden, reveals the unique challenges and opportunities in European real estate development, particularly in the post-COVID landscape. Daniel shares his expertise in UK investments, his innovative approaches to property development, and the unique way he’s bringing investment education to crowds around the world. 

Key Takeaways:

  • Challenges in European Real Estate Markets: Daniel provides insights into the European real estate landscape, highlighting the differences and challenges compared to the US market. He discusses heavy regulations in some European countries as well as his strategic choice to invest in the UK.
  • The Power of Innovative Investment Strategies: Daniel is a part of the Rich Dad program, bringing Cashflow Clubs to cities worldwide with the hope of educating thousands about real estate investing. He also discusses his unique approach to raising capital through joint ventures instead of traditional fixed-interest models, reducing risk and increasing profitability.
  • Adapting to Market Changes Post-COVID: Daniel shares his experience navigating the real estate market during and after the COVID-19 pandemic. He talks about how the UK property market reacted differently compared to other parts of the world and how he capitalized on government stimulus measures.


Check out Daniel’s previous episode: 2463 - Recovering from a Huge Loss

Daniel Wood | Real Estate Background

  • Real estate developer and event promoter
  • Portfolio:
    • Developments in the UK
  • Based in: Gotland, Sweden
  • Say hi to him at: 
  • Best Ever Book: 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey
  • Greatest Lesson: Switching to joint venture structures in our deals has been worth its weight in gold as opposed to the syndication model.



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Joe Cornwell (00:01.634)
Best ever listeners, welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I am your host, Joe Cornwell, and today I'm joined by Daniel Wood. Daniel is a real estate developer and event promoter. He is based in Sweden, and sounds like he's into some European real estate developments we're gonna talk about today. Daniel, thank you so much for joining us.

Daniel Wood (00:24.481)
Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me back.

Joe Cornwell (00:27.314)
Yes. And so I know it's been about two years since you've been on the show. So why don't we start with what you've been focused on the last two years.

Daniel Wood (00:34.624)
Yeah. So obviously I was on the show kind of right at the beginning of COVID. And we were talking about kind of the deals we did because I live in Sweden, but I invest in the UK. So we talked about the challenges of investing, you know, from a distance. When I started out, I got ripped off for about 400,000 pounds of investor capital was advised to go bankrupt, chose not to. So it was a, you know, it was a tough journey when we started out and we talked about how we turned that around.

And then of course, COVID was hitting. And the way COVID hit the property market was very different in the UK than it was in many other parts of the world because obviously everything shut down, right? Everyone was forced to be in their homes, which meant that property purchases stopped. Like literally estate agents weren't allowed to show properties. So the whole market stopped.

But when they finally pressed the play button, the government was so afraid of a crash that they added all these different stimulus. So they took away the purchase tax called stamp duty in the UK. They created new first time buyer loans. They did lots of first time buyer support. It was incredible. And of course, coming out of lockdown, you had all these people who are, well, breaking up out of relationships and people that were, you know, wanted to move in together.

So the market just got red hot and we actually decided to sell in that kind of high. We sold pretty much all of our single left or single unit properties and focused on our larger develop. Well, I say larger. I know you've had people on the show that do a lot bigger, but we're building a small hotel in Manchester, 14 flats, a commercial kind of restaurant slash pub in the bottom right downtown in city center of Stockport and we got a couple more similar deals around the northwest of the UK. So that really took our focus. And then at the same time as all this was going on, or sorry.

Joe Cornwell (02:43.454)
Yeah, so I was just going to say, yeah, I mean, in the U.S., we had a very, very similar market where, you know, our government pumped a ton of cash into the market, started trying to avoid, you know, a potential economic crash after the lockdowns that we had in the U.S., which I don't, I try to block all the COVID stuff out, but from what I recall, it was not nearly as strict as, you know, some of the other countries in the European strategy they had. So, but either way, when we came out of our lockdown, yeah, it was, it was like someone lit a fire under the economy and it took off.

So it's interesting to hear the European side of that as well. So what was your main motivation to transition from, it sounds like you had some smaller single or multi-family, smaller properties, and then get into the new development space?

Daniel Wood (03:29.92)
Yeah, so we'd already transitioned more and more into the larger deals because of the, it's honestly easier to raise finance on and then the profitability is completely different. But what really that kind of bump, we knew it was gonna be short term, right? We knew everything was gonna go up and then the backside of COVID, what we're seeing now was gonna come out.

So we knew, all right, now is a great time to sell and we've been considering getting out of a lot is we had small property spread all over the UK. And that means you got 10 different letting agents calling about all these small different issues instead of just having one point of contact. So we said, all right, now is the time to just get out of all of those, consolidate up into the Northwest with these larger developments and property partners that we really knew and worked with for a long time.

Joe Cornwell (04:25.874)
And take us through, you know, obviously most of our audiences is based in the U.S. and from over at the U.S. market, but take us through some of the differences that you may be aware of where, and I guess let me preface it with this. In the U.S. we often hear a lot of foreign countries have, especially European countries, have a lot of heavy, heavy regulation on new development. Is that true?

Joe Cornwell (04:49.774)
Okay, walk me through some of that. What would you consider the main differences?

Daniel Wood (04:54.56)
Yeah, so it's true for most of Europe. Most of Europe is pretty horrible to invest in. I mean, let me give you an example about France, because all Americans love France, right? So my mom actually lived in France for a while, and what happened was she was renting an apartment, and the landlord loved having her. She's a Swede, Swedes always pay on time, very easy tenant, but it turned out that the tenant, the landlord had before her, didn't pay rent for three years. Now, in most countries, when someone doesn't pay rent, you kick them out, right? But in France, it's illegal to evict a tenant unless they have someone else to go and they can just say, no, I don't. And so this poor landlord was stuck with the tenant not paying for three years.

Finally, that tenant got a job in another city and moved willingly and that landlord could get their property back. So different countries in Europe do have kind of funny laws and rules. The UK, and this is why I invest in the UK, the UK is actually very similar to the US. What really is missing is more kind of the absolute kind of creative strategies that you can have. Planning can be a little more, you know, a little more of a process if you're unlucky, but in principle the idea is very similar to the US.

But you know, there are some of the kind of tax liens and stuff that we just don't have in the UK. The good news is you don't get sued as often in the UK just because someone slipped in the bathroom, which is nice.

Joe Cornwell (06:36.106)
So back to your example in France, I mean, what would a landlord do in that situation? I mean, there's just no options, you just have to kind of wait it out and you're kind of at the behest of the tenant, or I mean, what would your advice be for someone in that situation?

Daniel Wood (06:48.928)
Well, yeah, so what happens and like in a legal sense, no, you don't really have an option. There's nothing really you can do, but a lot of landlords, and obviously I don't invest in the French market for this reason, but what I've learned from knowing people who do is a lot of landlords go down the kind of hired muscle route and use intimidation to kind of scare people out.

Sometimes that's classier using a lawyer sending, you know, letters of, uh, you know, legal threats, uh, even though, you know, the more sophisticated tenants will know that though, that that's, you know, tease without a bite, uh, teeth without a bite. But some will go down the, the literal hired muscle and, and force people out.

Joe Cornwell (07:43.838)
Interesting. Okay. So yeah, let's, let's get back to your developments in the UK. Tell me, tell me about how you, you know, your first venture into that and, and how that, how that went.

Daniel Wood (07:55.668)
Yeah, so we started them just before COVID, a lot of these developments. And obviously COVID just totally froze these development projects. Luckily, I'd raised the full capital for the deal and I'd done it on as a joint venture, so we'd set basically set up a syndicate. So we weren't bleeding interest during COVID. We obviously had some costs, you know, council taxes and you know, security firms and stuff like that.

But overall, we were able to avoid a lot of the holding costs. But obviously, none of the investors or we were happy about just sitting there. And then coming out of COVID, all, everyone was, you know, everyone was filing for everything at the same time. Everyone wanted their builders in at the same time. So it really delayed the projects. And we're still feeling some of that now as processes are going slower.

But what was amazing for us is as especially on this one we had in Stockport was as from right after we bought it, the area right behind it. So it's, it's got this area of Stockport used to be pretty run down, like pretty, there's a shopping center right across the street. So the idea is this would be a great location. But this is one of your shopping centers that let's just call it not your classier shopping centers.

And what happened was right after we bought it, the council decided to rejuvenate the area and they actually got the new bus terminal for the entire northwest of the UK was became slated to be built right across. So you have across the street one way, you have the shopping center right on the other side, literally five meters walk or sorry, it's that 20 feet walk, you have the new bus terminal. And on top of that, they're building about 300 luxury flats and a rooftop garden that our property just goes out into. And of course our pub in the bottom. And that led to lots of other developers getting into the area. So this little kind of crappy area in the three years since we bought the property, gone from this kind of rundown area to now being the new luxury area where people are moving into.

So the end value of our property, even though we you know, haven't really been able to do anything. We just got the planning permission through, we're about to start the build. It's essentially doubled in value, which is awesome.

Joe Cornwell (10:33.122)
So it sounds like this is a mixed use property, or at least that's what we call it here in the US. So you got retail or you said pub on the bottom and then apartments above, is that correct?

Daniel Wood (10:41.18)
Exactly, exactly. So we're going to be running it at because it's So it's 14 units and then the pub restaurant and it's literally from our door to city center Manchester. It's only 12 minutes door to door because we're right across from the train and bus station. So we're going to be running it essentially like a small hotel which should help make the pub a feature rather than something that frustrates tenants that people are out late. Instead, it's like, oh great, I have a pub right downstairs.

Joe Cornwell (11:16.542)
Okay, and now walk me through this, and I'm gonna ask you to translate here to US dollars, but walk me through a development like this. So what does it cost for land development to actually get ready to break ground? What does it cost to build per unit? And then what are your rents? Walk me through the whole deal on the numbers if you can.

Daniel Wood (11:36.308)
Yeah, so basically we bought the building. So this building is totally derelict. Ideally, you'd knock down the entire building and start fresh, but it's locally listed, which means it's not nationally listed, but it's locally listed. So we're not allowed to ruin the interior. We're literally going to change pretty much every single brick that we can, but we're not allowed to break the shell.

So we bought the building for about 400K. And now for those listening, basically what that means, it's gonna be a lot more expensive to redevelop this property than just knocking it down and starting again, which is why we could buy it so cheap, even with the good location. Now it had planning, but the planning had lapsed. So we had to go through a new planning process. It turned out that the drawings were only like planning level drawings. So they hadn't done the building, like the building regs, the proper kind of building drawings, the blueprints and what the planning drawings they'd had because there's two parts to this building.

So you have a front half and you have a back half and they were kind of off a little bit in their side in their like the floor spacing or roof spacing. So you had, you know, staircases going between these two halves. So we had our architects kind of even all that out, and we had to go through the planning permission and everything again, and I think it ended up costing us about 150,000 pounds, which is close to $200,000 to get through the entire planning application, the lawyers, the architects, and everyone else. But finally we got that stamped off and done, and then, because we had to do 3D drawings, we had to get 3D scanning in there, this whole process.

Joe Cornwell (13:17.023)

Daniel Wood (13:28.997)
Now we're bringing in all the tender offers and they're coming in at a right around two million pounds. So about two point five million dollars and now

Joe Cornwell (13:39.21)
And that's tender meaning for the renovation costs?

Daniel Wood (13:43.168)
Yeah, exactly. That's the entire build. So we're bringing in multiple different build companies that get to tender us an offer. And then we pick the one we like, not necessarily the cheapest, you know, the one that will do the best job at the right price. At the same time, we've applied for a grant. So councils in the UK will give out grants to developers who are building whatever it is they want. Right.

And our building it because it's in the middle of this new, beautifully developed area. It's a true eyesore because it's so ugly right now, the building. So the council has approved to be our, our bank. They'll be our mortgage lender. They'll lend us all the money we need for the development and they'll even give us a 450, 450,000 pound grant, about $500,000 grants, which is money. They just give us as long as we do what we say we're going to do which is pretty cool.

Joe Cornwell (14:43.862)
Okay, so this is actually the local government. When you say council, you're talking about like the city council, so to speak, of the neighborhood. They're actually able to give you government funds to do this renovation.

Daniel Wood (14:47.553)

Yeah, exactly. So that would be, yeah. Yeah, because this is a central part of their development plan for this area. So they really want this eyesore gone. And the end value, and this is one of the reasons why they're giving us this, is the current end value of these 14 flats is only about 2.3 million if you use them as a single, you know, a single let's. So we're actually going to end up spending about 2.7 to get an end value of 2.3.

Now that's in pounds, so whatever, 3 million to get 2.5. Now that's where that grant comes in because it's evens it out, right? It means we're actually spending 2.5 to get 2.5, and the council is lending. Now the reason we still wanted to do the deal and still love the deal is both the location, like I said, property values are going through the roof. So by the time we're done, that property value is gonna be significantly higher, and in the next kind of bull run, the next, you know, good time in the market, it will go up crazily too.

So, we're fine with it because we're holding it long-term. But the other side as well is because we'll be renting it out as service departments, you know, short-term lets, instead of renting them out for about 700 to 900, depending on the size of the flat, pounds per month, so say 800 to $1,100 a month, we will be getting about $200 a night of rent and we should have about a 70% occupancy averaged out over the year.

Joe Cornwell (16:59.018)
So these will be more like short-term stays more like a hotel or I don't know if you have Airbnb, you know in the UK but you know or like an Airbnb style. Okay.

Daniel Wood (17:05.4)
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It'll be, you know, Airbnb, HomeAway, all these different sites.

Joe Cornwell (17:11.582)
All those. Okay. And you are going to utilize those platforms to help fill the vacancies.

Daniel Wood (17:17.)
Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, we'll have a local management agents that will have contacts with, you know, companies and we'll rent them out as long-term company, uh, kind of, they're kind of short-term rents, but we'll absolutely have them listed on booking.com and all these other platforms.

Joe Cornwell (17:34.354)
Okay. And what, so what are you expecting as far as cashflow? Because, you know, obviously it sounds like you're going the short-term route because it's going to increase revenue. Um, but you know, what on a 14 unit, uh, deal like this, what could you expect per month in cashflow?

Daniel Wood (17:48.82)
Yeah. So we would have, I mean, it's, this is why we like the deal, you know, in fairness, because, you know, we got 14, 14 flats and our, our rent every month per flat should be about 2000 pounds. So that's about, you know, $2,500. Now, obviously you'll have costs, you'll have the marketing costs, you'll have the management agent, you'll have the, the upkeep and everything else. And then, you know, you'll have your, your interest.

So we should net about a thousand pounds, or sorry, a thousand dollars net per flat per month, which is about 14,000 overall. Plus of course the pub restaurant, which because I have a friend who runs restaurants in the area and he obviously loves the area, we'll be joint venturing that one with him. So we'd expect to make maybe another $5,000 a month from the restaurant.

Joe Cornwell (18:43.414)
Yeah, no, that's a great strategy. And here in the US at least, I'm seeing a lot more of that. So commercial investors who are doing mixed use or just straight up commercial, instead of just going out and finding a traditional tenant, a lot of them are either owner operating businesses in some of these mixed use vacant spaces, or they're partnering, like you said, with other operators where they're still gonna own the real estate piece, but then they're going to get profit sharing with the tenant instead of having a traditional kind of landlord tenant relationship. Is that common in Europe as well?

Daniel Wood (19:16.692)
Not really, honestly. I think generally when it comes to a lot of things, people are more entrepreneurial in the UK or in the US than in Europe. And it wasn't actually our strategy to begin with, but it was just about six months ago now that we're recording that I partnered with this friend of mine on another part of his business and we're working together. And we were sitting at his restaurant and I was talking about my property and he's like, wait, I know that building. I want that. You know, I got this restaurant, let's do another one. And I just realized when he walked me through the numbers, why would I rent this? Like, why would I take a thousand dollars, you know, a thousand dollars a month of rent when I can co-own this restaurant and we should easily net $5,000 a month with that location.

Joe Cornwell (20:10.71)
Yeah, that makes complete sense. And like I said, I'm seeing that much more often here in the US, at least in my market. I'm based in Cincinnati, Ohio, but yeah, very common in the mixed use space. So tell me a little bit about your affiliate.

Daniel Wood (20:22.86)
Yeah, but it's nice for the owner or the operator as well. I mean, in fairness, it's nice for the operator as well, especially as they're starting up the restaurant. He will have no rent until it's profitable, and then it's a profit share. So it takes away a lot of the risk of starting a new restaurant as well.

Joe Cornwell (20:42.718)
Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I understand it. Yeah, win, win. And I think that's why so many people are utilizing that strategy, because your upfront costs as a new business, or expanding, you know, multiple locations for a restaurant or bar would be extremely expensive on the build out. So it helps them kind of, as you mentioned, get off the ground and obviously, more upside for the landlord down the road as well.

Daniel Wood (21:04.772)

Joe Cornwell (21:08.118)
So yeah, tell me a little bit about your affiliation with the Rich Dad program.

Daniel Wood (21:12.64)
Yeah, so that's been really cool. Actually, this was something we spoke a little bit about the last time I was on the show, because as I said, I'd been ripped off for 400,000 pounds. I was, you know, half a million dollars. Essentially, I should have gone bankrupt with the company, but it was my friends who were my investors, and I didn't want to throw them under the bus. And we were blessed because we run an event company. So we run the Swedish Wealth Institute, which does events, you know, for personal development, investing, and entrepreneurship, and we brought Kim Kiyosaki to Sweden as a keynote.

And the beautiful thing of running an event company is when you bring someone in as a keynote, you then can take them out to dinner and get to know them a little bit. So we took Kim out to dinner a few days while she was here in Sweden, and we explained the situation we were in. And she kind of said, well, do this, do that, and do this, and your portfolio is fixed. Wow, okay. And it took us a couple of years to do it.

But we did it and she kind of solved our issue for us. And since then we were in contact consistently. But it was a few years ago that she and my now ex-wife said, hey, we should work together more, what could we do? And Kim said, well, hey, you should translate the cashflow game, Cashflow 101, which is their board game, which is, if you've read the book, Rich Dad Poor Dad, they wrote the book to sell the board game. That's their big passion to teach people how to invest, how to build passive income by doing it, that full immersion and getting into the playing of it.

And so we said, yeah, of course, we'll translate it to Swedish. It's actually now about to come out in about a month. And they then asked us to start opening cashflow clubs as they're called, which is where you'll have like this local group, maybe in a city. So you could have one in Cincinnati where you'd invite people in to come and play, you know, if it's once a week, bi-weekly or once a month. And they'd come in, you'd, you know, you'd welcome them, you'd explain the game and they get to play Cashflow 101.

And what Kim and Robert loved so much was we found a way to make all these clubs free for anyone to attend, but also for the club leader that it's not just a kind of a branding thing, but we could actually help them build this into a passive income business forum that would generate a residual cashflow. So it's a true win-win for everybody. And they loved it. So they asked us, please open as many as you can. And so far we're up to opening about 30 that are confirmed all over the world from Dubai to Malaysia, to the UK, to Sweden even a couple in the US that are opening, which has been really, really cool.

So it's a way for someone and, you know, anyone who's on this show and like to open your local cashflow club. I'd love to connect with you because you you'll be able to, you know, help people getting into investing, help them with that mindset. And like I said, we, we have a way for you to generate a passive income that isn't obtrusive. It doesn't disturb anyone and just provides huge value for everybody involved.

Joe Cornwell (24:32.53)
And so when you're opening these different, these clubs in these different cities, I mean, how are you connecting with these people? What's your strategy for that?

Daniel Wood (24:41.344)
Yeah, so basically we have an interview. So they'll apply to become a cashflow club leader. You can find that on our website. So you go to swed and you click on open a cashflow club and you have a meeting, we have an interview. We make sure obviously that you're not, you don't wanna open one in the same areas we already have a leader. So we make sure that we're spreading people out. And then, yeah, once both sides feel like this is a good fit, we'll send them the board games, we'll help them with how to find a good locale to run it in. We will even pay for marketing to get people to show up. We'll also show the club leader kind of how to do your guerrilla marketing, how to get people without having to spend money. So we got both those factors coming in. And then we'll provide them with a pack of, like I said, the games, but also our partners.

So because we work with Robert and Kim, we also work with Kane and Alessia Minkus, who are the top teachers in the world in artificial intelligence. We're partners to Tony Robbins' event in Germany, where he's coming next year, so we work a lot with Tony Robbins' organization on that. We work with a lot of other exciting speakers, and all of these partners we have will do events for free. So the club leader will then get a pack of like, here are all the free coming events where they can then offer this to their attendees.

So it becomes another value where they're basically saying, hey, come and play cashflow with me, learn investing. And hey, if you wanna learn more about actually doing what you've been doing in the game, here are some free events that I can also give you. Now the beauty of the free events is then they will have some kind of workshop or further education that is, so to speak, pay to play. And from that, the cashflow club leader will get a commission, we work with the top people in the world.

We've been able to negotiate a very good commission because we do hundreds of events with these speakers all over the world and that trickles down to the Cash Flow Club leaders. So they're basically just standing there giving gifts all night and earning a great commission off of it, which is really fun for everyone.

Joe Cornwell (26:58.334)
Yeah, it's definitely interesting concept and you know, I have never actually played the cash flow game, but I've heard a lot of great things about it. I've read, you know, all the kiosk, he books early in my investing journey, as most of us have. And, you know, they were definitely great, you know, for the for the mindset shift, as you mentioned. Yeah, man, it's awesome stuff you're up to.

Daniel Wood (27:16.004)
Well, I mean, for someone like you, obviously you already know it all, right? You already know it all in the game, but it's one of those things, like for you as an investor, it's, you know, to teach your kids, it's amazing. Like I play it with my six, eight and 10 year old and they just, they get cashflow now. They know, they know how to fill out a balance sheet. Like most adults don't know how to run their, you know, financial statement. My six year old knows how to run a financial statement. But then it's a great way as well.

Like if you're looking to raise your capital, you know, instead of going, hey, I want to get in, you know, I want to get you involved in this property thing. Just have your friends over for board game night. Instead of bringing out monopoly, you bring out cashflow. They start going like, dude, these property deals are insane. You're like, yeah, here, look at this. I got one right here. That's in real life. You want to have a look. And all of a sudden you got people interested involved. So it's a, it's a great way to kind of bridge that gap as well.

Joe Cornwell (28:11.414)
Yeah, that's great. That's a great strategy. And like I said, I really enjoy you sharing your stuff you're up to in the UK. Like I said, we don't have a ton of European guests on here. So it's really cool to hear the different dynamics and things that you guys are working on across the pond, so to speak. So let's transition to the best ever lightning round. You ready?

Daniel Wood (28:33.216)
Yeah, I'm ready.

Joe Cornwell (28:35.894)
All right, best ever book recommendation.

Daniel Wood (28:39.36)
Well, I actually got it right here behind me. It is, I don't know if you can read this, but it's called The Changing World Order by Ray Dalio. And it's, I mean, for someone in investing, it's, I mean, it's like a thriller. It's terrifying, but it's also amazingly good. So it's talking about how finances in the world is changing and it's, yeah, definitely something I think every investor should read.

Joe Cornwell (29:09.198)
Very cool. Best every way you like to give back.

Daniel Wood (29:14.144)
I'm very much into environmental, so I love planting trees. So I'll donate for tree planting all over the world. That's my kick.

Joe Cornwell (29:25.754)
And aside from the one you already shared, give me a mistake you made in an investment deal and the lesson you learned from it.

Daniel Wood (29:35.677)
So, separate to the ripped off, let's say raising capital in the wrong way. In the beginning of my investment career, I would raise money and pay a fixed interest, which meant that if anything went wrong, our costs would shoot through the roof. So switching to more of a joint venture model has been worth its weight in gold. Yes, you do give away a little more of the profit, but you can always add a buyout option if you really wanna keep the cookie for yourself, but you take away a lot of that risk, which has been awesome.

Joe Cornwell (30:11.446)
Yeah, couldn't agree more. And where can people connect with you and learn more about your investments?

Daniel Wood (30:17.62)
Yeah, so the easiest is go to our website, that's swed Now that is a mouthful, so it's swed You can find us on Facebook and on Instagram as well. You can also find me on LinkedIn, I'm Daniel Wood. Sadly, again, that's a very common name in the US, so I'll probably come up far down.

So I would ask anyone try to figure out the spelling. We got lots of free events coming. We're doing things with Joseph McClendon, with Tony Robbins, with Kane and Alessia Minkus, Louis Compton on trading, Rory Kilmartin on relationships, which will help with both your personal relationships, business, and like negotiation, which is really cool. So, and all these events are free. So absolutely worth checking out and going to Swed

Joe Cornwell (31:13.386)
And we can link to that in the show notes as well, as well as your previous episode. So if anyone wants to hear the juicy details on the $500,000 ripoff, that would be a good one to check out if you haven't seen it.

Daniel Wood (31:25.868)
Yeah, that was painful and we dig through that whole story. So.

Joe Cornwell (31:33.942)
Yeah, I'll have to go back and check it out myself. I missed that one. So looking forward to that.

Daniel Wood (31:39.698)

Joe Cornwell (31:40.074)
Awesome. Well, listeners, if you got value from today's show, please leave us a five star review on the app of your choice. Make sure you're following us on social media and Daniel, thank you so much for your time today. Hope you all have a best every day.

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