January 29, 2024

JF3434: Secrets to Organic Growth in Multifamily and More ft. Sarah Sullivan




Sarah Sullivan, CEO of SuGo Capital, joins our host Joe Cornwell on the Best Ever Show to discuss her road from Silicon Valley to the headaches of single-family investing and eventually to multifamily and alternative assets, including how diversifying her personal portfolio turned into a shift in her business model and the opportunities SuGo provides to investors.

Key Takeaways:

  • Outsource, Simplify, Educate: Sullivan likes to outsource as much as possible. Managing vendors is easier than managing employees. If you bring someone in-house, that's a big commitment. SuGo doesn’t have property management in-house. They have investor relations and marketing in-house, but everything else — legal, accounting, etc. — is all outsourced. Their marketing strategy is simple: strictly email. You won't find Sullivan on social outside of LinkedIn, and her company focuses on virtual events to educate investors with the goal of providing as much value as possible.

  • A Business Model Is Born: Looking at her personal investments, Sullivan realized at one point that she was 90% invested in multifamily. Realizing she was exposed to market trends that could impact her entire net worth, she built out a portfolio that included alternative assets to get her multifamily exposure to 60%. She then packaged these alternative investments like forex and gold — which she does due diligence on herself — for investors, and they were a hit, effectively shifting her business model to offer more options for her investors.

  • Due Diligence Never Stops: Companies grow. Team members change. Executives change. The way they do business changes. Doing continuous due diligence on your partners and with whom you invest ensures that as relationship dynamics change, your partners continue to align with your goals and trajectory. (You can download Sullivan’s investor due diligence checklist here.)

Sarah Sullivan | Real Estate Background

  • CEO | SuGo Capital
  • Portfolio:
    • Multifamily, energy, forex, and gold
  • Based in: San Francisco, CA
  • Say hi to her at: 
  • Best Ever Book: Rich Dad, Poor Dad, by Robert Kiyosaki
  • Greatest Lesson: When you’re getting started, don’t try to do everything yourself. The right partnership can really launch you. Find someone who’s 10 years ahead of you, figure out how you can add value to them, learn from them, and then you can take off on your own.


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Joe Cornwell (00:17.91)
Best ever listeners, welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I'm your host, Joe Cornwell. And today I am joined by Sarah Sullivan. She's a CEO of SuGo capital. They are a investment firm that works on for their investors, but to provide value to everyone, they are investing in multifamily. She also invested energy, Forex and gold and based in the San Francisco market. It is her first time on the show. Sarah, welcome.

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (00:46.065)
Thanks for having me, Joe. Excited to be here. This is one of the best ever podcasts, obviously. So happy to be here.

Joe Cornwell (00:52.246)
Well, we appreciate your time. Since it is your first time here, why don't you tell us a little bit more about your background, where you came from, and how you initially got into real estate.

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (01:02.417)
Yeah, it was definitely not a straight line. I didn't intend to get to where I am. It just happened organically, which is kind of nice because it's the perfect fit. So I started out, I got my MBA, went to business school in marketing and finance, and I was working in tech companies, tech startups in Silicon Valley. And that was my career. And I saw a lot of people around me who were not working all day like I was. I was like, hey, what are you guys doing?

And a lot of them had either made money in real estate or they had exited their companies and then invested in real estate. And then they were living off the income from their real estate. And I was like, well, they got it right, right? I am working 12 hours a day, commuting an hour. So I started learning from people just in my neighborhood and then started taking coaching programs. And I was like, definitely buying single family homes in other markets is going to get me out of my job.

I got a few of those and the headaches were real. I was like, no way. This is not for me. Being in California, the math doesn't work. So you invest outside of California. And it was just too much of a headache. So a few years later, I shifted into multifamily as a passive investor. And then I just thought it was the best thing. I started telling friends and family. And so it kind of organically grew that I was telling people about, hey, this great thing that I found, and I partnered up with the people I was investing with, and that's when we took off.

So in 2019, SuGo Capital formed. A couple of years later, I quit working in Silicon Valley and went full-time into my company. And since then, we have acquired 36 apartment complexes, and these are 100 to 400 units in size. We have an oil and gas investment fund, and then we have a couple hedge funds around Forex and gold. So it's been a great adventure. We have a large thriving investor community and it's been super fun and the momentum is just, we're just getting started.

Joe Cornwell (03:05.75)
Wow, that's fascinating. Yeah, that's definitely a lot of growth in a short amount of time. What markets were you investing in as a single family investor?

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (03:15.289)
Indiana, so Indianapolis. And the numbers were great, actually. The 2% rule was really common when we were making our purchases. For us, the difficult part was living in San Francisco, trying to get to, so what happened was, in the beginning, we didn't do great due diligence on our property management companies. And so they were not doing a great job. They put bad tenants in there.

We couldn't get in touch with the companies, and getting on a flight and going over to, you know, I have a full-time job and kids and all that. It was two, three legs to get over to Indianapolis. And so it was just such a headache to try to maintain those properties from far away. But it doesn't mean the markets were bad. The markets were actually okay. It was just the people involved in our distance from it.

Joe Cornwell (04:03.286)
Yeah, that makes sense. And what markets did you start investing in when you were raising capital?

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (04:09.293)
Yeah, so when we started getting into multifamily, we focused in the Carolinas as emerging markets. So specifically Columbia, South Carolina was where we acquired our first six properties. And I had a couple business partners there who had great business relationships and broker relationships, excuse me. And we teamed up and just took down a whole bunch of deals. And it was great.

We ended up selling them last year and investors got between a 30 and 45% annualized return because it was the right timing. It was all the market. It wasn't us. It was timing the market. So I always tell investors, if you get the right market and you time it right, that can forgive any mistakes you make as an operator. Super important.

Joe Cornwell (04:56.746)
Yeah, no, definitely. You started buying those in 2019, correct?

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (05:01.481)
Correct, yeah. Texas is also a market that we started buying in and are still acquiring in. So primarily we'll focus in Dallas for 2024. But we, between then and now, we, Georgia, Alabama, some more in Indiana, but this time apartment complexes with great property managers instead of shoddy ones. So a bit all over the sunbelt, Florida.

Joe Cornwell (05:31.466)
Okay, and what does your company look like today? How is it structured? What does your team look like? What is your role day to day?

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (05:38.177)
Yeah, so I try to outsource as much as possible. And my philosophy is if you bring someone in-house as an employee, especially me being in California, that's a pretty big commitment. However, if you have a part-time person who's outsourced and they're part of a larger firm that is actually managing them, it makes it a lot less for you to manage. Managing employees is a lot more work than managing a vendor.

And so I definitely prefer to outsource as much as I can. So we have about five folks who are SUGO capital and then everything else is outsourced. We don't have property management in-house. We have regional contracts for that. Yeah, we outsource everything. So it's small. We have investor relations in-house because we need to maintain those relationships. We have marketing in-house and then everything else, legal, compliance, accounting, all of that outsourced.

Joe Cornwell (06:37.554)
And today, what is your main responsibilities or what do you typically work on or focus on?

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (06:45.613)
Oh me, day in and day out, running the team, picking the next investments, mostly. Taking a look at what's happening in the market, what markets do we need to exit, what markets do we want to enter. And when I say markets, I don't just mean real estate market, I also mean other asset classes. So, you know, kicking off funds in different, completely different, unrelated to real estate markets. We're launching a cash flow business fund.

So there's all these things that you need to look at as an investor personally. And so I just amplify it for my investors. I'm always doing research for investors. What's up and coming? What do we need to close down and get out of? Those sort of things. So that's my main day to day. That's probably about half and then half is running the team and doing the marketing and investor relations with them.

Joe Cornwell (07:32.146)
And how are you guys marketing today?

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (07:35.569)
We do everything email marketing. Say you won't, you'll find me on LinkedIn, but other than that, I'm not on social. I do everything through email marketing. So we do educational events, and that's how we reach our audience. And we educate, and you know, I'm a big advocate. No matter what industry you're in, no matter what you're doing, giving value to your clients, giving value, giving value, does two things - know, like and trust. They know how smart you are if you're teaching them, if you're giving them value. They also appreciate it and they feel like they can trust you and they want to give back to you in some way. So it's a win-win.

Joe Cornwell (08:17.61)
Yeah, that's interesting. So, you know, most of the syndicators that we talk to, operators, people who raise funds for various asset types, almost all of them have some sort of, you know, marketing via social media, whether it's, you know, short form, long form, LinkedIn, but your company has been strictly email-based. So how are you driving people to, you know, connect with you, get on your list, et cetera? I mean, how does that work?

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (08:44.933)
Yeah, so it's all through our events. So we market the events that we put on, and everyone who comes into those events, then they're on the email list and they get the continued nurture. Yeah. We tried other things. Yeah, we tried other things, and it just really didn't have the conversion because seeing snippets of you online, you see so many snippets of so many people online.

But if you educate and you have someone come into an event and they watch you for an hour and a half, they have a much better understanding of who you are, what's in your brain, how smart you are, not smart you are, those sort of things. And I guess it depends too on who your investors are. So our investors are usually later in life or already retired. And so, you know, they, more often do have the time to sit in or longer educational events. And so perhaps people who are younger and, you know, they were me 10 years ago with the little kids and the jobs, they're like, I'm not sitting through an hour and a half of education. So I guess it depends really on who your target market is.

Joe Cornwell (09:55.366)
Yeah, no, that's definitely an interesting concept. So when you are putting on these educational events, are these in person, are these all remote or internet based?

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (10:04.889)
All online, all internet-based. And we've done some in-person events. And if you look at the ROI, being an investor, ROI of time and money, and then conversions after the fact, it's much, much stronger online, doing online events.


Joe Cornwell (10:28.554)
Now, with your role, it sounds like you kind of head up acquisitions and management of your team. What are you projecting in the real estate market in 2024?

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (10:42.089)
Yeah, so there's definitely been a softening rate and I think it's going to continue to soften, at least in the multifamily space. So I don't know the other asset classes. I don't study them. I don't watch them. But every month I look at all the markets that we have properties in. And I look at the occupancy and the average rent and what are they doing? Are they going up and down? And so typically we see about a 3% market increase per year in the US last year, year over year.

Actually at the end of 2023, year over year, it was about negative 2%. The year before in 2022, it was 16%. So it's like, wow, it's going all over the place. So, you know, some people might think, well, we went up 16% instead of 3%. So we could go negative for some years and kind of still get back to stabilization. I don't know if we're going to drop drastically. I don't think so. But I think there may continue to be a softening and I think it's even more important to look at the markets you're in because some markets, when you look at them, they've dropped 15% year over year, and some markets have increased 15% year over year.

So that's a huge range. So I predict, but overall, you know, on average in the US is softening in rents. And then also, you know, there's been a softening in occupancy as well. So really strong markets like Dallas and Houston that typically saw 95, 97% occupancy are now seeing 92% occupancy. And if you're not, really in this industry, you're like, oh, it's 5%. Well, it's a lot. It makes a big difference. If you have a 5% drop in occupancy on your 200 units, especially if you're getting all the insurance rate hikes, all the property tax hikes that we've been seeing, the interest rate hikes. So with all those hikes, and then you see a little bit of drop in occupancy, it really, really lowers the profit, the profit margin for operators, especially if you have the preferred return for your investors, so you're giving them most of the profit, making sure they're getting that.

What I see though is, especially right now in Q1, I see this really, really strongly that investors, sellers are waiting. So they're holding out longer than they might otherwise want to because they have seen, you know, there's going to be a decrease in interest rates. There might be four this year, four decreases in interest rates. So they're hoping, hey, if I hold onto my property longer, interest rates decrease, I get a higher selling price. So I see a lot of people holding on and not negotiating. So we don't have anything in the pipeline right now for that exact reason. In 2022, we acquired 16 properties. 2023, we acquired three properties. 2024, you know, back to your question about predictions.

I'm banking on other investments, far, far superseding the real estate investments in 2024. A lot of people are saying, hey, it's gonna be the comeback year, it's gonna be amazing, all these distressed sellers. But really the number of distressed sellers as a percent of the market is not huge. So a lot, especially in multifamily, a lot of multifamily is held by family office or institutions. So they don't care about the interest rates if they don't have any loans, you know, they bought all cash, whatever.

So they're just going to hold it till later. So I don't think there's going to be a huge bloodbath of all these. There are definitely going to be some, but everyone's going to be going after them. So that's going to raise the prices. So you know, there's going to be some good finds if you can find them. But the inventory of what's for sale is going to be super low.

Joe Cornwell (14:24.062)
Yeah, couldn't agree more. You know, the kind of what people have been saying the last year or so is they're waiting for this big rush of inventory and there's going to be, I've heard many different things of what they think is going to create all this opportunity. And I agree, I don't think it's going to be enough to move the needle, so to speak, on really increasing volume. I think the rates coming down over the next year will help a little bit, but yeah, not enough where...

All the appetite out there to buy a multifamily is going to be satisfied. So what's interesting to me and what's different about your business and your setup than most of the people we talk to is that you do have alternative investments. Now, is this something that your investors with Sugow Capital, basically when they come to you to invest, they know there's opportunities for other things? Are these individualized funds. Like how does that actually work? Let's just say I came to you and I said, hey, I'm gonna invest $100,000. What would that look like and what would my options be?

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (15:28.025)
Yeah, so we, today we maintain three asset classes. So we have the real estate, we have the oil and gas, and we have hedge funds. So we have those three asset classes and we're looking to introduce the fourth, the Small Business Fund, Cash Loan Business Fund. And it came about totally organically. So at the end of 2022, I was like, oh my gosh, the end of 22 was like where everyone lost their hair and went gray, right?

Things falling out of contract two days before closing, all these crazy things, interest rates going up two days before closing, LTVs going down two days before closing. It was crazy, right? And so at the end of 2022, I was like, we can't do the same volume next year. If this is what it looks like, it's not a good time. There'll be a great heyday for real estate again, but it's not 2023.

So we have about, you know, we're getting close to about 20,000 investors in our community. So I went to them and I said, hey, I'm invested in these other things personally. If I create opportunities for you to join with me in these other investments, would you like that? So I did a survey and it was a resounding, yes, please, we need something else that you've vetted. And so it came about very organically where I said, okay, well, we're gonna create an opportunity around this because this is what I'm personally invested in. This is how it fits into my investment portfolio.

I was really wonky, I was 90% in multifamily. And as far as my net worth, and so I was like, okay, I'm pretty exposed here to things, market trends that affect multifamily directly affect my entire net worth. So I wanted to get it closer to 60% of my net worth in multifamily. So I was pulling it out and putting it in these other asset classes and building an investment portfolio like a family office would.

And so then I simply started sharing them with our community. And so yes, today, so we offered one, it was a hit. We offered another, it was a hit. So today it's, whatever I find, and I do due diligence on myself and I invest in it, and I've invested in it for years and it's been a strong winner. Create a fund around it, package it up, offer to our investors. So to answer your question, yes, when you go into our investor portal, you can see the different asset classes and they're there.

And we have an ROI calculator, which is really cool because someone can plug in, Hey, I'm going to put in a hundred in this investment, 50 in that investment and 250K in that investment. And what does it look like over five years? Cause they're all different per cashflow appreciation. Some have tax benefits, some don't. So it calculates that all for you. And that's on the front page of our website, sugocapital.com. If anyone wants to take a look at that, um, it's really useful. Cause you just like see how it works over five years if you kind of plug your portfolio amounts in there.

Joe Cornwell (18:22.854)
And I guess with this being obviously a different model, how does it work for your company? How do you guys collect fees off the investments? How do you benefit from some of these ancillary different type of investment vehicles, since it's not your typical syndicated structure?

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (18:38.758)
Yeah, I could.

Yes, good question. So we do an equity split. So we don't take fees upfront. But we do, we do an equity split. So for instance, our, our hedge funds, a lot of times people do a 220, meaning they get 2% asset management fee every year of assets under management and split the equity that they get 20%. We don't take any asset management fees. We don't take any upfront fees. It's strictly on performance. So we split the profit with investors. If we don't make any profit, we don't make any money. I

It boils my blood when people take an asset management fee and then have a negative return for investors. Like you're not doing your job at all. And so I always rant about it. So I can't do that myself, you know, take an asset management fee just cause we're only going to make money if we make a profit for our investors.

Joe Cornwell (19:29.702)
That's very interesting. That's a very unique model, and I don't know anyone else doing that. I don't know if you do, but that is definitely a unique strategy.

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (19:39.289)
Yeah, and we intentionally did that because we see so much with people who have their funds at Wells Fargo or Morgan Stanley and they have fees at the end of every year and a lot of them have been experiencing over the last few years negative returns and they're still paying the fees. So if you can turn around and say to them, hey, I'm not going to take any fees unless I make you money and here's my track record, it's much better than what you've been getting over the last couple of years. It's a no brainer. I think it really aligns incentives of the investment manager and the investor to do it that way. Investors love it.

Joe Cornwell (20:15.838)
Yeah, I don't want to get too into the legal structure weeds and things like that, but is this something where, are these still considered securities? Is this typical security registration like you would have with a syndication? Is there any particular licensing you need to invest in these other types of assets?

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (20:34.349)
Yes, we do when we branched out of real estate and into public commodities like Forex and gold, then you do need a license. So our chief investment officer for those funds, he has a series three license and series 34 specifically for Forex. So yeah, but it's the same structure. It's still a 506C, still a Reg D 506C. It just has a layer of registration with the National Futures Association and as opposed to real estate, which is really easy. Like you can spin up a fund in 30 days, you launch it, you're good to go. This one just has so many more, the hedge funds have so many more steps than with the regulatory bodies in the US. So it takes a lot longer to launch. But it's worth it because the profit margins are much higher.

Joe Cornwell (21:22.762)
Yeah, no, that's like I said, very unique. You're definitely opening my eyes to some different possibilities out there. So as I mentioned before we started here, we are doing a new segment and we are asking our guests what their superpower is and whether it's a trait, a strategy, a tactic about you personally and your business and what would you consider your superpower?

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (21:52.289)
I don't just believe this is my superpower. I've been told by hundreds of our investors that this is my superpower and why they invest with us is because I can take a really complex concept or a complex structure or a complex investment and boil it down and present it very simply so that they totally get it and understand it. And then whatever you understand, you're more likely to invest in. If you don't understand it, you're not gonna invest in it.

And I think that comes from, I was a teacher for about five years. Um, I ran a circus school and I taught aerial arts. And so when you're teaching aerial arts, if your students get something wrong, they fall on their head from the sky. That's really bad. And so I had five years of five days a week, I was explaining something and I practice and practice explaining it. So people really, really understood it because it was life or death. I mean, not to be extreme here, but you know, it was a dangerous thing.

And I've taken that skill into explaining investments. And it's kind of similar. I mean, it's not life or death, but it really affects your life. If you make a poor investment, or you make an investment, and you thought it was going to be completely different, and your money's locked up, you didn't realize it was going to be locked up, you thought it was going to be cash flow, there's no cash flow.

You can make some serious mistakes that impact your life if you don't fully understand what you're investing in. So I think that's been a really strong contender for our success at Sugo Capital.

Joe Cornwell (23:29.622)
Yeah. And I don't know who, uh, said this quote and I'm probably going to butcher it, but there was something I heard a long time ago where it was like, you know, the wise man or woman isn't the smartest person, but it's the one who can best explain how smart they are at other people. Or as you mentioned, you know, make them understand what you understand is actually, you know, the more intelligent person. And I know I butchered that completely, but hopefully that concept makes sense where, yeah, taking really complex layers and dissecting it.

So, you know, the common denominator and the common people can understand it is what, you know, shows, uh, true intelligence. So that's, that's a unique skillset and that's the first time I've heard that one. So I appreciate you sharing that.

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (24:12.178)
Yeah, welcome.

Joe Cornwell (24:14.27)
Is there anything else you want to add or cover before we transition to the lightning run?

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (24:19.069)
Woo, yeah, I will say, you know, one of your earlier questions around the backstory of Sugo Capital and I didn't have a dream that I was going to build an investment firm and I didn't set out to build an investment firm. It all came organically in a very roundabout zigzag line. And so a lot of people ask, oh, well, you know, you had a lot of success very quickly, but it was because I had years of trying a whole bunch of different things. And along the way I gained a lot of skills.

And, you know, Now I am very clear on what my skills are and what my skills are not. And I see a lot of people out there trying to do everything themselves, and you're not good at everything yourself. So especially in the beginning, finding partners and forming partnerships, business partnerships, where they have an expertise that is completely different from your expertise and they're symbiotic.

That is the best way to get started. And that's how I really launched in the beginning. Now we do a lot of stuff on our own because now I have, you know, enough funds to hire people to do those things and keep more of the profit. But I wanted to share that because if I had thought about partnering earlier, I would have been more successful earlier, but I tried to do everything on my own in the beginning. So I want to share that partnerships can really launch you, find someone who's 10 years ahead of you.

Figure out how you can add value to them and their business model, team up, learn from them, get that track record under your belt, and then you can take off later on.

Joe Cornwell (25:54.654)
And the name's SuGo Capital. I'm going to make a guess. Your last name's Sullivan and that is part of the SU. Is that right?

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (26:01.585)
That is and go is Gogoli. And Gogoli is the last name of our chief investment officer who's also heading up all the trading funds around Forex and gold.

Joe Cornwell (26:13.25)
Gotcha. Well, that makes sense. I'm glad I wasn't way off there.

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (26:14.609)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. We thought Sullivan Goggly would be quite a mouthful. Yeah.

Joe Cornwell (26:20.566)
Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, no, it definitely rolls off better with the SuGo. So Awesome. Well, let's transition to the best ever lightning round. You ready? What is your best ever book recommendation?

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (26:29.169)
Let's do it. Yeah.

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (26:34.757)
I'm sure everyone says this, but Rich Dad, Poor Dad. It was the catalyst, right? Lately though, I've been reading Alter Ego and I think that book is really powerful. If you found like you've plateaued or you've reached your goals and you're not sure where to go next, which is what happened with Sugo Capital, like I exceeded all my goals. I'm like, well now what? Now I'm not really sure where to go next. And reading that book helped me see a clearer future and then go towards it. So alter ego.

Joe Cornwell (27:07.938)
Best every way you like to give back.

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (27:12.333)
So when I'm gonna try to not get emotional. When I was in circuit school, I performed with a performance partner and she's from the Ukraine and she has a non-profit that provides resources for people who have been displaced or injured during all the war that's been happening.

And so, SuGo Capital once or twice a year, we do a fundraiser and whatever our investors give to that, we match it. And then Google matches it with us. So it's really a 3X of what someone provides. Individuals donate, we are able to 3X that investment and save three times more lives. And it's, you know, it's a lot of civilians and families and people who just are trying to live their life, not even associated with military, who are the folks that we're trying to get resources to, to enhance their lives and let them keep living.

Joe Cornwell (28:11.026)
Yeah, that's powerful stuff. We will make sure that link is included in what as well in the show notes when you give us your company and company information and Give me a mistake you've made on one of your investments and the lesson you learned from it.

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (28:26.457)
Ooh, yes, okay, this one's really, really important. So, and I think investors do this all the time. You invest with someone and you do a lot of due diligence in the beginning. And then you're like, hey, I've done my due diligence on this team, I don't really need to do more due diligence on them. But then the company grows, team members change, morals change, way they do business changes.

And so one of my biggest, I don't know if I would call it a mistake, but biggest impacts was a partner and they changed team members. The executive team changed. And I kind of just assumed it would be just the way it was before. Completely different people, completely different way of doing business, completely different morals. So for me it was not doing continuous due diligence on my business partners. Um, and I've heard from a lot of investors, cause I shared that with my investor community. I was like, keep doing due diligence on me, keep doing due diligence on everyone you invest with because as we grow, we have more partners, we have more people on our team and you want to make sure that as that happens, you know, it's more than like, I could be a good investor, but am I good at hiring honest people? Am I good at ensuring that my team members are compliant?

That's a whole nother different set of skills that you need to keep an eye on for your business partners and people who invest with, if you're a passive investor. So, um, so I'd say continuous due diligence on teams, partnerships, people you invest with, all that kind of stuff. Don't stop with one time.

Joe Cornwell (30:09.406)
Yeah, that's great advice and something I had not even really considered. So we appreciate you sharing that with us. So last question is where can people learn more about you and connect with you?

Sarah Sullivan SuGo Capital (30:22.353)
So sugocapital.com has all of our resources, but something that is really condensed and designed to give new folks, like all the best information that we have, all the best education that we've given. If folks go to freedomin3.com, it's freedomin3.com. It's a series that we put together. It's just, it's just three videos in this series.

But it's like, you know, you do tons of webinars, you do tons of education, and you get feedback from investors like, wow, that changed my strategy. So all those things that we got feedback on that were like, wow, that was really life changing. We put that all in there. So if you sign up freedom in three and it's the number three.com, you just put in your name and email address and you get direct access to it right away. That's like a really great place to start as an investor and then we'll get to know each other over time.

Joe Cornwell (31:24.13)
Very good, and we will be sure to link to that as well. Sarah, I really appreciate you sharing all your different strategies you're working on. Like I said, it's definitely a unique perspective. It's something I have not heard, so I know I learned a lot. I hope our audience did as well. Listeners, if you did get value from today's show, please leave us a five-star review. Make sure you're following us on social media. And Sarah, thank you again so much for joining us today.

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