Airline pilot Chad Freeman got his start in real estate by purchasing a “pilot crash pad” in New York in 2005. Although he describes it as a “terrible” property, it launched him into the real estate business. In 2015, he decided to take a boot camp course to help him break into the mobile home park industry.
Today, Chad is the founder of MHPinvestors, which purchases undervalued mobile home parks in the Midwest. He is a GP of 150 mobile home lots and 47 RV spaces. In this episode, Chad shares what attracted him to the mobile home parks space, what goes into completing a heavy turnaround for an 82-space park, and the toughest lesson he’s learned when it comes to adding new homes to his parks.
1. Why Mobile Home Parks?
When Chad attended Frank Rolfe’s Mobile Home Park Boot Camp in 2015, he knew he had stumbled upon an excellent opportunity. “It’s like the stars aligned for appreciation on mobile home parks today,” he says. The parks are an undervalued asset, and there are large barriers to entry because governments generally aren’t allowing construction on new parks.
Additionally, the industry is beginning to consolidate, which Chad views as a good thing. There is currently a major turnover happening thanks to a high number of mom-and-pop park owners looking to retire. “Because [they’re] so undervalued, you have a lot of people going in and raising parks and redeveloping because they can make more money doing something else,” Chad explains. “So this is a perfect economic setup for a lot of appreciation.”
2. Completing an 82-Space Park Turnaround
Chad’s second deal was on an 82-space park north of Kalamazoo in Plainwell, MI. “It had good bones, it had good infrastructure, and it was sizeable enough that we knew we could get some really great returns on it,” he says. The former owner had been allowing 15 residents to stay for free, so Chad’s first move was to put a stop to that, which led to considerable tenant turnover. His next step was to demolish six to eight homes in the park.
The turnaround also included addressing the deferred maintenance, paving the roads, and fixing some sewage issues on the property. “We brought in new homes and used homes as well, and just did a lot to try to bring the reputation up and get people on board with private ownership, as well as rent raises,” Chad says. “It’s been a lot of work, and it’s still a work in progress.”
3. Hard Lessons Learned from Adding New Homes
Chad learned a big lesson when he ordered some new homes to place and sell in one of his mobile home parks. He didn’t take into account that the price point for the homes was too high for the community he was placing them in — and it took him an unexpectedly long time to sell them. “My learning experience from this was: If you’re wondering, do a test ad, and then do one home,” Chad says. “And if it works great with one home, then go crazy.”
Chad Freeman | Real Estate Background
- Founder of MHPinvestors, which purchases undervalued mobile home parks in the Midwest.
- Portfolio:
- GP of:
- 150 mobile home lots
- 47 RV spaces
- LP of his own syndication
- Based in: Jacksonville, FL
- Say hi to him at:
- Best Ever Book: Am I Being Too Subtle? by Sam Zell
- Greatest lesson: Other people always have good ideas you haven’t thought of. Teamwork and communication are very important and you can't do it alone.
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TRANSCRIPT
Slocomb Reed: Best Ever listeners. welcome to the Best real estate investing advice ever show. I'm Slocomb Reed and I'm here with Chad Freeman. Chad is joining us from Jacksonville, Florida. He's the founder of MHP Investors, which focuses on acquiring undervalued mobile home parks in the Midwest. Current portfolio - he's a GP of 150 mobile home lots and 47 RV spaces. Chad, can you tell us a little bit more about your background and what you're currently focused on?
Chad Freeman: Sure. Well, first of all, pleasure to be here... But current background is I started in the corporate world as an airline pilot, and it turned out to fairly quickly not be really what I expected. I knew I wanted to get into something else, so I started investing in real estate. I should say I started speculating in real estate, because I didn't even really know the difference... But I ended up running what we call a pilot crash pad in the New York area, where it's very common for pilots to commute in and need a place to stay. So this was right at 2005, I believe, I bought this place... And I figured I was just gonna buy some real estate and make a bunch of money because the market had been going up... So I bought this absolutely terrible piece of property, but I was able to at least think through that I had other people in there to cover the mortgage for me. So I was making $30,000 a year at the regionals, and I got this loan for $427,000. And the guy on the phone, he says, "Well, you don't make enough money to qualify for this loan. So we'll just bump up what we show that you make, because it's a no-doc loan." So I'm like, "Okay, cool. At least I know I can cover the mortgage."
So I got into this, and then learned what I was doing; I had that gut feeling, and everybody says you should listen to your gut feeling. I had that bad gut feeling, and I got into it anyway. And then I took some classes, a six-month long investing class, actually, for real estate, learned what I was doing, and I sold that place and got out from a bad investment and got into good investments. I started with single-family, and then fast-forward to about 2015 or so, I was over at one of my best friends and now business partner's house, and his mother was involved in real estate investing for a long time, and she had these bootcamp manuals for a mobile home park bootcamp. So I said, "Hey, what's that?" And it was Frank Ralph's bootcamp, so I said, "Is that any good?" She's like, "Yes, great. I've taken it twice." So I went and took his class, and that's what got us into the mobile home park industry.
Slocomb Reed: That's 2015. Were you still a pilot in 2015? Are you still a pilot now?
Chad Freeman: Yeah, so I've been at the airlines for 20 years or so.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha.
Chad Freeman: I still [unintelligible 00:04:51.15] airlines.
Slocomb Reed: Cool. But you're done with your pilot pads... What did you call them?
Chad Freeman: Crash pads.
Slocomb Reed: Pilot crash pads.
Chad Freeman: Yeah, no more crash pads.
Slocomb Reed: Yeah. I don't ever want to use pilot and crash in the same phrase, even if it's real estate investing. Gotcha. So you started getting into mobile home parks... You started studying it in 2015. When was your first acquisition?
Chad Freeman: It took me a little bit to get the education and motivation... And once [unintelligible 00:05:17.24] I had found something I wanted to do, and when I first got into real estate, I knew I wanted to get into commercial real estate. That's what I found that I really enjoyed. And so in 2017 I got real determined and we've made our first property purchase with a two-part package up in Michigan.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. A two-part package. How big was that?
Chad Freeman: It's a 20-space park, and then there's a 54-space park that also has 47 RV spaces... And it gives us an opportunity to expand. It's gonna end up with a great property down the road, and we have a finished product. We're a long-term hold on that thing, and it's also got 30 acres or raw land, and timberland with it... It was just a excellent purchase. We got it at a 15-cap from a guy going through divorce.
Slocomb Reed: Is that a 15-cap based on actuals?
Chad Freeman: Yeah.
Slocomb Reed: When you purchased it. And when was this purchase?
Chad Freeman: 2017.
Slocomb Reed: In '17, a 15-cap based on actuals. Man, I'm in apartments guy in Cincinnati, and nothing is based on actuals. Still now, end of June 2022, interest rates climbing, we're still seeing everything based on pro forma. So the idea of 15-cap based on actuals... Now you said that was '17, so four to five years ago. What have the last four to five years of operating that space look like? You said -- you didn't use this language, Chad, but you're not yet fully optimized at that park yet...?
Chad Freeman: Correct.
Slocomb Reed: So because we came in with our own money - and apparently this is very common - we didn't have investors at the time, we underfunded it compared to what you would do if you're doing a syndication. So we kind of let it organically fix itself, and used the cash flow to go in and make the cap ex that we wanted happen, and then the deferred maintenance at the same time. So it's been a slower process, but we have a long-term plan for this. It's come around a lot, we've really cleaned the place up, the township [unintelligible 00:07:13.19] absolutely loves what we've done, and they're willing to let us expand, which is a pretty hard thing to do in the mobile home park space, but they're all for it up there. But we're going to end up with that property with something really awesome down the road. We just turned down an offer for that property at a 5.86 cap. Because if we keep it, we've got something better. And I think the people who offered that also saw the value in it and the possibilities with it. So we can easily end up with over a 100-space park out of that deal.
Slocomb Reed: So 100 spaces - is that 100 mobile home spaces plus the 47 RV spaces, and then more timberland on top of that?
Chad Freeman: Yeah - well, we'd have to clear out some of the timberland. But it's also set on a lake, it's a very pretty property... It's up on a ridge with a mobile home park in that area, and there's nice open spaces for community to enjoy, and a nature trail... And then the RV park is down on the lake, so we've got boat docks on the lake, and we're just constantly improving it every year. We came up with cap ex plan to budget for it, and we're going to keep going at that until down the road; it probably will never be a finished product, right? You can always add to something like that, and just keep making it better.
Slocomb Reed: Well, yeah, and also when you have a long-term hold strategy to begin with, and you buy at a 15-cap based on actuals to begin with, you've got a lot of wiggle room for doing that. With a 15-cap based on actuals - I want to ask what your debt looked like, but frankly, if you "underfunded" the project, you ought to have cash flows pretty quickly that are going to build up and give you a reno budget, or a construction development budget.
2017, it's mobile home park, RV park, raw land... Did you pay cash? Did the seller carry back a note? What did your financing look like?
Chad Freeman: It was a bank financing. So everything we've done up there, we've used the same bank, because they love us, and we love them. The last few times I've talked to them, they're saying "Do you guys have more deals? We'd love to do more deals with you guys." We also really liked that bank. They'll do cash out refinances with us, we've done that twice. And then they also have fully amortizing loans, which is extremely difficult to find in the commercial space. So we really liked that bank, but as we expand, we're going to have to stop using that bank only, as we grow out of the area.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. What does your current debt on that place look like?
Chad Freeman: We owe I think less than 800 on it. No, that's the combined property, I'm sorry; the debt on that actual property is like --
Slocomb Reed: I was talking more about terms-wise. Did you get that fully amortized? Is it fixed for the full term? What are you looking at?
Chad Freeman: Oh yeah, it's a fixed, 20-year fully amortizing loan, at a fixed rate, five or five and a half percent, back when we got it in 2017. So we're good to go. We're just going to hold that thing till it's paid off.
Slocomb Reed: That's awesome. Now, a couple of things, before we move forward. I want to ask how you ended up in mobile home parks, because the way that you tell the story, it's something like you were at your friend's mom's house and you saw a manual, and therefore mobile home park investing. I know more went into the decision. What is it that led you to mobile home parks instead of apartments, self-storage, staying in the single-family space, going industrial? Why mobile home parks?
Chad Freeman: The economic setup I saw when I attended the bootcamp - it's like the stars aligned for appreciation on mobile home parks. You've got an undervalued asset, the fair market lot rents should be up around $600 if you just adjust for inflation from the '50s, and '60s, and they're not; they're $280 or $290 today for the national average. So it's undervalued. There's large barriers to entry, because governments essentially won't let new parks be built... And in addition to that, the industry is starting to consolidate. There's only 10% institutional ownership right now. And with that, most of the owners are mom and pop owners that are typically baby boomers or some silent generation still left, and they're aging and wanting to retire, sell their parks. So there's a big turnover happening right now as well.
And then it's a diminishing supply as well. Because it's so undervalued, you have a lot of people going in and raising parks and redeveloping, because they can make more money doing something else. So this is a perfect economic setup for a lot of appreciation.
And then we also get to go turn around an entire community. So it is rewarding for us to go see people where -- case in point one, this park, the one we keep talking about, there was a terrible looking home right at the entrance of the property, and it ended up being a drug dealer's home. And this lady that lived next to it, she was afraid to go outside. Well, that guy's out right away after we got in. We kick anybody out like that... And turn it around and make it a nice, safe, quiet family community. So we get a lot of complaining for the people that are on their way out, but then after the turnover happens and it's more stabilized, we get a lot of people saying "No, I love this place", and a lot of good feedback, so it makes us feel good with what we're doing as well.
Slocomb Reed: Nice. Based on the way I introduced you, Chad, these acquisitions in 2017 are a lot of your current portfolio, and you said you and partners self-fund it. Is there another mobile home park deal or two that you've acquired since then? And did you raise capital for future deals?
Chad Freeman: It's all been a small investor group that we have. And then we've added a fourth person; there's three of us, we've added a fourth person and [unintellgiible 00:12:52.04] syndication.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha.
Chad Freeman: So we have a blind pool open right now, a 506(C), and we do have funds from investors, so we're ready to purchase more properties. And we're still trying to raise more money at the same time.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. I will say for our listeners, this was disclaimed at the beginning, but this interview is for informational purposes only; there aren't any offers being made, or anything like that. So 150 - well, I need to take a step back again, because mobile home parks in 2017 and mobile home parks and 2022 are drastically different market conditions.
Chad Freeman: Yeah...
Slocomb Reed: I don't think Brandon Turner had turned the world on to mobile home park investing yet in 2017. He was still playing with apartments back then. So when was your next acquisition after this?
Chad Freeman: That was 2019.
Slocomb Reed: '19. Okay.
Chad Freeman: And that's an 82-space Park North of Kalamazoo, in Plainwell, Michigan.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. And what was the play there? You got a 15-cap based on actuals on day one?
Chad Freeman: Boy, I wish... But we did get a good deal. So it turned out to be a pocket listing from a broker; I'd made friends with a broker, and then hung out with him at the MHI convention in Las Vegas, and gambled a little bit, and had a couple of beers or something, so we connected and became friends with this guy. And he says, "Hey, I know you guys have parks in the area. Are you interested in this park?" It was a fantastic deal. We ended up buying it out from under Frank, who's kind of become my mentor... And he teaches that too, the small guys often are able to get properties when the bigger corporations can, because you can connect with the seller. So we went and built that rapport with the seller... And he straight up told us, "I want to sell to you guys, because you're not a big corporation." But we got it for - I think a 7.86-cap, if I remember right, so just under an 8-cap, and it's been a fantastic property. It was a pretty heavy turnaround, but we're doing a good job turning that around, and we've increased the value a lot on that.
I'd have to figure out our internal cap right now, but we could do really well if we sold that today. We've also had a cash offer and refused it.
Break: [00:14:57.13] to [00:16:46.07]
Slocomb Reed: Chad, what does a really heavy turnaround look like on an 80(ish)-space mobile home park? What are you doing? I don't want to ask about costs, because if you did it in 2019, the cost is barely relevant now, with as much as inflation and the labor market have impacted things for us... But what does a heavy value-add in a mobile home park? What are you actually physically doing?
Chad Freeman: Well, when you drive up, it looks terrible, first of all... But it had good bones, it had good infrastructure, and it was sizable enough that we knew we could get some really great returns on it. But one particular resident there - the former owners had been letting about 15 people a month just stay for free, for a long time. So we had to fix that right away. We've had to do a lot of -- not a lot; I don't know, maybe six or eight demos on homes... We had a lot of turnover, because you kind of upset the community. The resident meth dealer there at the time, when our manager told him that if he wanted to live there, he's gonna have to pay rent, he swung a hammer at her head.
Slocomb Reed: Wow.
Chad Freeman: So that's kind of the stuff you get to deal with a little bit. But now it's not like that anymore. It's a nice, quiet, safe community, and we're getting a lot of good feedback. We brought in new homes, and used homes as well, and just done a lot to try to bring the reputation up and get people on board with private ownership, as well as rent raises, and then fix the deferred maintenance, pave the roads, fix some sewage issues, and stuff like that. So it's not a complete rehab, with every home in there or anything, but it's been a lot of work, and it's still a work in progress.
Slocomb Reed: Chad, I am primarily an apartment investor, owner-operator in Cincinnati, and primarily a BRRRR investor. I typically buy the stuff that I can find almost always off market, undervalued to the point that I can force appreciation for a cash-out refi... Chad, it seems like there's a lot of new money and a lot of high-level operators coming into the mobile home park space, and I know that one of the things that's happening there is that cap rates are compressing. They're compressing across the board, but more so in mobile home parks the last few years than most commercial asset classes, from what I can tell. I'm primarily a BRRRR investor, and I'm big on the cash-out refi. When I'm putting my own capital in something, I want to be able to recycle it as quickly as possible. What kind of cash-out refi potential have the mobile home park deals that you've done and you've looked at have?
Chad Freeman: Well, to speak to that, with more professional management operators coming into the space, I definitely see that. And driving around the area, you can see more activity. You can see it when you're driving other mobile home parks; you can kind of tell who's doing that just by driving the park and being an operator ourselves. And we've had some offers from guys with very deep pockets. One offer, they had I think over 20 parks under contract at the time, and [unintelligible 00:19:47.20] So like I said earlier, the industry is starting to consolidate... But I think it's a good thing that we should all embrace, because people are going in and spending a ton of money doing this value-add, and they're turning old properties around, they're revitalizing them.
So the residents, at the end of the ,day end up with a much better value. Yeah, they're gonna have to pay more rent, but it costs a lot of money to turn these properties around as well. And then it brings the whole reputation of the entire industry up.
But I am seeing a little bit more, especially from I think apartment syndicators that are used to paying for pro forma, bringing the cap rates down a little bit. But I haven't seen a big cap rate compression. There's no cap rates that I'm seeing that are lower than interest rates, and then talking to brokers as well, as the interest rates are coming up, prices are softening as well. But we have had this nice historic over the last couple of years 6% to 8% cap rates. So prices are softening, and there is a lot of opportunity, and we get a lot bigger margins, I think, than the apartment syndicators.
It took me a little while to understand how you can actually make more money at a lower cap rate with an apartment, where I'm used to just paying actuals and looking at the actuals. But there's a ton of opportunity out there. There's only about 1,000 listings right now, but there's 44,000 mobile home parks, and about 10% institutionally-owned. And that is changing, but there's still - if you take those 4,000 institutionally owned, and then 1,000 off the listings that are overpriced on the market, you still have 39,000 mobile home parks, off market deals ready to be had.
Slocomb Reed: It's interesting to hear you say that you're not seeing cap rates compress all that much. When you talk about the money that's coming in, institutional buyers buy [unintelligible 00:21:38.14] the value-add that you see when you visit parks. I'm not in your space, but what I'm hearing you say is that a lot of owners are making their parks more borrowable, and making them the kinds of assets that banks want to lend against. Are you seeing lending terms, possibly with the exception of the last few months - we are recording at the end of June 2022 - are you seeing that lending terms have become more favorable within mobile home parks?
Chad Freeman: I heard a report recently that park operators are being sold debt at a (I think) almost 40 basis points lower than in class A apartments...
Slocomb Reed: Wow.
Chad Freeman: ...just because we have the lowest default of maybe anybody in the real estate industry. So banks do love loaning to us, and I get calls all the time. But there's still very favorable terms out there. I just got off the phone with a broker actually right before this podcast, and he had a lot of good stuff to say about it.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. Chad, you said you guys are in the process of opening a syndication and raising capital. What are the deals that you're looking at currently look like?
Chad Freeman: Well, anything you see that's listed or sent to us by a broker, everything I see there is overpriced. So we're focusing on the wholesale pricing, off-market deals, pocket listings from brokers, or cold calling properties that we want, and finding those owners, doing mass mailings, stuff like that. And I think that's where all the bread and butter is really for anybody, is off market deals. That'll keep us in our business plan, doing what we want to do.
Slocomb Reed: So you're going off market primarily, or focusing on pocket listings. Are you seeing off market sellers trying to sell on those same pro forma prices? I know a lot of us apartment guys who go off market are direct to seller. People know what the neighboring property has sold for, and they're asking for that even though the neighboring property is in way better condition. Are you seeing something similar?
Chad Freeman: Sometimes. It depends on who you talk to. Everybody's different, because there's all these solo entrepreneurs or mom and pops that own them. So I did, unfortunately, miss out on a property in Texas, a really great one. I bugged this guy for years, and I just kind of got sick of following up with him... But he was wanting way more than his property was worth, and he kind of kept that figure in mind until the values did come up more. But he ended up getting something that he wanted.
But it's also a factor of just educating the seller. We can say "I will pay you absolutely as much as the bank will let me", because the banks know what these properties are worth. So unless they want to do a seller financing with some really sweet deal, then -- still at that point, it has to make sense, because we have returns that we're promising now as well.
Slocomb Reed: Of course.
Chad Freeman: The deals are out there, I think you've just got to find them.
Slocomb Reed: Gotta beat that pavement, make those calls, for sure. Chad, are you ready for the Best Ever lightning round?
Chad Freeman: Yeah, man.
Slocomb Reed: Awesome. What is the best ever book you've recently read?
Chad Freeman: I think best ever and probably my favorite business book of all time is Sam Zell's book "Am I being too subtle?" And he's also the largest operator of mobile home parks.
Slocomb Reed: That is a great one, for sure. He tells great stories. What is your best ever way to give back?
Chad Freeman: Our company's slogan, I guess, is "Changing the world, one community at a time." So we do enjoy going and getting positive feedback to the people who recognize that we're trying to make their community nicer. And one thing that I like to do is help people who can't help themselves. We recently painted a lady's house because she was hardly able to walk. So the house, it really needed it, and it was an eyesore, so we just went in and said, "Hey, do you mind if we paint your house?" She was thrilled to death.
Slocomb Reed: I believe it. I believe it.
Chad Freeman: Yeah, stuff like that. It makes you feel good.
Slocomb Reed: Chad, this far in your mobile home park investing or in your commercial real estate investing in general, what's the biggest mistake you've made, and what's the best ever lesson that you learned from it?
Chad Freeman: The biggest mistake was trying to run that pilot crashpad and not knowing a thing about what I was doing. I just thought you buy real estate and get rich. It didn't quite work that way.
Slocomb Reed: And it was 2005 and you were riding a wave, not realizing that the wave was going to stop pretty abruptly. But what about within your commercial investing?
Chad Freeman: I ordered some new homes for an economy that really wouldn't support it. So we kind of took a bit of a bath on there. We did end up breaking even or maybe creating a little bit of equity on it, but... [unintelligible 00:26:15.01] there's been a few mistakes we've made on diligence. So learning to do really, really great diligence has been -- a few mistakes along the way, but every time we do it, we get better. And there's nothing we've really blown up.
Slocomb Reed: So you were buying new homes to put in your parks and then lease out?
Chad Freeman: We don't lease or rent anything at all, we just sell it. So we only have [unintelligible 00:26:39.02] owners.
Slocomb Reed: Oh, okay.
Chad Freeman: It's like a big parking lot where nobody ever leaves.
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. So you are buying them and putting them in place in order to sell them.
Chad Freeman: Yeah.
Slocomb Reed: So the issue was you bought more parks than the market could bear, and you're saying that the due diligence of figuring out what the market could bear in advance, or maybe starting with a fraction of what you were expecting and seeing how the market reacted to it - that would have been the solve there?
Chad Freeman: So what the solve is - I brought in a brand new home, and then it's also a HUD stay, so then you have concrete requirements, that adds to the price, and on and on. So we brought in several homes that really the price point for that community, that economy wouldn't support it. So it just took a really long time to sell them. We did get them [unintelligible 00:27:23.02]
Slocomb Reed: Gotcha.
Chad Freeman: But my learning experience from that - if you're wondering, do a test ad and then do one home. And if it works great with one home, then go crazy.
Slocomb Reed: I get that, for sure. I'm new to office leasing. I just finished the renovation of my own personal -- it's my office hack. I'm standing in it right now. But there are six other private offices that I'm renting out one at a time... And I'm still in the process of figuring out how best to lease these things. Because you know, with apartments, you just throw it on Zillow, you throw it on apartments.com, and there's just a baked-in market for you there, literally... Well, figuratively, that everyone is looking for an apartment, knows exactly where to go... Well, there is no one place for a person, like a clinical psychologist or an accountant or an attorney who needs to meet one-on-one privately with clients, but wants to do that in a space with amenities. So I'm in the process of figuring that out, too. And I've tried not to blow out the budget trying everything... Trying a couple of things for a week. Put it on Craigslist, see what happens. Put it on Facebook Marketplace, see what happens. Oay for Facebook ads, see what happens. Then put it on LoopNet, then on and on until all the spaces get filled up. So I totally feel what you're saying there about that incremental growth and trying things on a smaller scale first. Chad, what is your best ever advice?
Chad Freeman: My best ever advice - knowledge is power. The more you learn -- I don't want to sound like Buffett... The more you learn, the more you learn. But you can do anything, you can lose everything, but if you've got the brainpower and the knowledge, you can always start over. So nothing's more powerful than the human mind.
Slocomb Reed: Absolutely. And where can people get in touch with you?
Chad Freeman: You can find us at MHP, like Mobile Home Park - so MHPinvestors.com. It's probably the best way to get a hold of us.
Slocomb Reed: Awesome. And that link is in the show notes. Chad, thank you. Best Ever listeners, thank you as well for tuning in. If you've gained value from this conversation about massive cash flow and mobile home parks, please do subscribe to our show. Leave us a five star review and share this with a friend you know we can add value to through our conversation with Chat today. Thank you and have a best ever day.
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