December 28, 2022

JF3037: Qualifying GPs in Today’s Rising Rate Environment ft. Randy Smith

Randy Smith is the founder of Impact Equity, a fund-to-fund manager that helps W-2 employees decrease dependence on W-2 income. In this episode, Randy tells us how being laid off after 25 years in corporate America prompted him to accelerate his real estate career, the telltale signs that indicate how an operator is likely to perform, and how he is qualifying GPs in today’s rising rate environment. 

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Ash Patel: Hello, Best Ever listeners. Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I'm Ash Patel, and I'm with today's guest, Randy Smith. Randy is joining us from Peoria, Arizona. He is the founder of Impact Equity, a fund to fund manager that helps W-2 employees decrease their dependence on W-2 income. Randy's portfolio consists of being an LP on 18 deals, and a fund to fund manager on $1.75 million. Randy, thank you for joining us, and how are you today?

Randy Smith: Hi. I am doing really well, Ash. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. It is a pleasure to be here.

Ash Patel: Randy, the pleasure is ours. Before we get started, can you give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and what you're focused on now?

Randy Smith: Yeah, absolutely. So kind of as you mentioned, you shared a very high level overview of my bio, but I am a recently departed W-2 guy, and I was in corporate America in sales and sales leadership for 25 years or so... And was an active investor in single families out of state for a few years, did the BRRRR strategy, turnkey strategy... And then shifted over to passive investing just a couple of years ago. And what really drove that was that I was trying to grow the portfolio, increase my passive income, and it seemed like passive investing as an LP would be a great way to do that.

So fast-forward a couple of years, I got laid off from the W-2 and decided to go back to the active space, but focusing now on the syndication model and partnering with a couple syndicators to help bring investors to the table.

Ash Patel: Are you happy that you got laid off?

Randy Smith: I will tell you, the initial shock was a shock. I will say that. But after that, I'm very excited to be doing what I'm doing right now, and I think it was a blessing in disguise, quite frankly.

Ash Patel: Randy, what was the plan if you didn't get laid off? Were you just gonna keep the side hustle?

Randy Smith: Yeah. Ultimately, I think I kind of had the perfect mix there, where I was a high W-2 income earner, and I would get large bonus checks every quarter, and I would essentially take 75% of my bonus check and funnel that off to passive investments.

So every quarter, I just invested in another deal, and I was working on diversifying across markets, and operators, and asset classes... So it really just gave me the funds to keep investing very aggressively in this space.

Ash Patel: What qualifications did you look for when deploying capital into a passive deal?

Randy Smith: Yeah, great question. That seems to be the superpower that I'm building or have built, I guess, over the last few years. So first and foremost, I always look for operators that have full-cycle track record. If they've done a handful of deals full-cycle in the most recent economic cycle that we're in, I'm pretty pleased with that. I'm not necessarily looking for folks that have been doing this for 20 or 30 years across multiple economic cycles, because I find that while those are generally fantastic operators, at times we start to see the returns that they offer start to fade a little bit. So I think you pay as an investor to get that highly seasoned operator.

So I look at operator, I like to dig into the numbers with the underwriting, and I try to spend as much time as I can doing due diligence on that operator.

Ash Patel: If somebody doesn't have a track record, how do they get your attention? Everyone has to start out somewhere, right?

Randy Smith: Yeah, so a couple of different ways I go with that. One is everybody has a track record prior to coming into this space. So I think that people who are going to be top performers in this space most likely were top performers in previous roles, in previous organizations. I was on another podcast where I talked through this process - I interviewed probably thousands of salespeople during my time in a couple of different Fortune 100 and 200 companies, and I got very good at looking at somebody's history, and really trying to tell their story and figure out what are the holes that they're not putting into their resume or on their LinkedIn profile, and really digging into those spots... And I've got this mindset that I think if somebody's willing to fudge the numbers, or maybe bend the truth slightly on a resume or a LinkedIn profile, I think it's highly likely that they might do that in other areas of their business as well... So I like to really dig into those and ask some of those hard questions when I'm looking at their history.

Ash Patel: Interesting. So what are some tell-tale signs that you ask operators and it kind of foreshadows how they're going to perform?

Randy Smith: So I think just getting a good understanding of how they've performed in the past. If you see that folks were with organizations for long periods of time, if they had a lot of accolades, if they got referrals and recommendations throughout that process, if they had awards, I think those are all things that you can dig into to find out about how they performed in those other roles... Where I start to get a little concern is if I see gaps in employment, or I see gaps in things... And people respond in different ways; either they'll say, "Well, I worked with this organization for a short period and didn't want to put that on there." Or "I traveled the world for years", or whatever it might be. There's always some kind of odd answer that they'll give you, that I like to dig in and find out really what's going on there.

Ash Patel: And as that relates to GPs, what kind of questions do you ask? And what kind of holes have you found in people's story?

Randy Smith: The GPs route, I really like to ask the question, "Tell me about a time when things went wrong, when things didn't go as planned, when you ran into some challenges that weren't necessarily in your proforma, and how you responded to that." I've had a number of different operators, believe it or not, that just simply said that they've never had problems like that before. And if that's the case, either one, I think they're lying, or two, they've not been in the business long enough. Because as you know, if you're in this space for any amount of time, things are gonna go south at some point... And how you respond when things get difficult is the true indication. Anybody can make money as the markets blowing up, and your rental rates are going 15% year over year, but when things get a little bit tougher, or you run into some city issues, or some tax issues, or a place burns down, or something like that, that's when you truly find out what these guys are made of.

Ash Patel: Thank you. That's a great next question. Randy, tell me a time where things didn't go so well. You had challenges, things went south... What happened?

Randy Smith: Touché! By the way, thank you for asking that question. I had an interesting situation where I worked for a Fortune 200 company, I ended up switching and moving over to a Fortune 100 company, doing the same role that I had done in a previous role, which was phone sales manager is what I was... So I got into the new organization, and it went fairly well for a while... But at some point, the numbers were not where they were supposed to be. And ultimately, I ended up getting demoted, and had to move backwards in a role. And fortunately, I worked for a fantastic leader that tucked me away for a few months, and then I ended up promoting very quickly, which ended up being my dream role that I stayed in for about nine years. So it was one of those situations where my ego had to show up to work, suck it up, take a step back, realize that I can be very good at the position that I was leading for years and years, and then very quickly, I was able to be recognized for those skills and promote again.

Ash Patel: Let me be more specific on that question... Tell me a time that you had challenges or things went south as it pertains to being an LP investor, or a fund to fund manager.

Randy Smith: So I'm still fairly new in this space. So far, I've been helping syndicators for the last six months or so in this space, and I guess the only things that have been challenging up to this point are some people who make soft commits that don't follow through, which is just the nature of the business...

Actually, one kind of funny situation - I was using a CRM tool that my account got flagged for some reason the day I was about to launch my second deal... So I had to scramble very quickly and find a new CRM tool, build the email automation into that tool, and get the deal launched in one day... Which would have probably taken me about a week to do prior to that, but I had to do it on the fly. So in the end, I was able to take what was a fairly big obstacle for me, starting this new business, and turn it around and ended up with a better tool and a better solution in the end anyways.

Ash Patel: Got it. So today, with all of your sales background and education background, do you help syndicators with raising capital as well?

Randy Smith: Yeah, so the term "capital raiser" is one we don't label ourselves as. What I've done specifically is I have run a fund to fund model, not a fund of funds, where it was a single asset that I was raising, where my investors would actually invest with me, and then we'd turn around and invest those dollars in a predetermined, already identified asset, with one specific syndicator. And then the second business model that I've leveraged is actually getting a portion of the GP, where I get to be involved with asset management, as well as raise capital and bring investors into that organization as well.

Ash Patel: It seems like a lot of multifamily syndicators are fairly equal in terms of returns... What are you seeing for returns today? And we're end of November 2022.

Randy Smith: Yeah, I kind of joke about this... I think that there was a "Learn how to be a syndicator" training that had a deck that said 16% to 19% IRR. We've got a five year proforma, and we're gonna give you 4% to 8% cash on cash." So that seems to be the standard returns that everybody is talking about in this space.

I think what's more important than what actually shows up on their investor deck is what they've actually performed and what they've done in the past... And you'll see a wide variety of returns on different investments from different syndicators.

It's interesting to see that there is a population of syndicators that have an offering that is specific to that investor, that is just simply looking for 6% to 8% to 10% returns. That's all they're really looking for. And there's a large population of syndicators that will offer those type of returns to them. And then there's that other population that talks about the very high IRR value-add play, which - I think it's a better solution for the growth investor, which most of the investors I'm working with tend to be growth investors.

Ash Patel: Yeah, they want to make money, not park money.

Randy Smith: Yeah.

Ash Patel: You mentioned the playbook that a lot of syndicators seem to have come from. None of these playbooks mentioned rates, doubling what they were a year ago. How are you handling that, and how are you qualifying GPs in today's rising rate environment?

Randy Smith: Yep. Love it. Great question. So ultimately, I think there were a lot of players in years past that might have rate locks for one, two, three years, that a lot of that stuff's going to be coming due now... I think we're gonna see a lot of deals that ended up going back to market, possibly lower than what they initially purchased for, because of the rising cap rates...

What I like with a couple of the operators that I've worked is they carry very, very large reserves, and they are fully integrated, so they can control cost much more directly in their operations... And it's interesting, it seems like there's two different mindsets, where you'll have operators that like to over-raise, so they have these big cash flows and they can start paying distributions right away... And then you've got the folks that will sit on the sidelines and not pay distributions for 6, 12, 18, 24 months, until they've completed their value-add strategy.

So personally, I would rather have syndicators that have deals that have deep pockets and have extra dollars in reserves for this specific situation where - there's a lot of uncertainty over the next six months to who knows how long, potentially... And I think once we start coming to the end of those rate caps, it's going to be a very interesting marketplace.

Ash Patel: I love that you brought that up... What are your thoughts on that, people raising extra capital just to pay back investors? So I'm paying $100,000, but I'm paying an extra 10k just to get that 10k back.

Randy Smith: It depends on what standpoint you're looking at it. If you're looking at it from the syndicator standpoint, and actually, quite frankly, from the investor's standpoint as well, the impact on IRR to raise additional funds to pay distributions for the first 12 to even call it 18 months is so minuscule... We're talking maybe a half a percent IRR when you consider a three or five-year proforma. So the added benefit that you get by having those extra dollars in the bank far outweighs maybe a half a point that you're losing in the IRR on the backside. So for a guy who is a little bit more risk-averse, I sleep a lot better knowing that those bank accounts have maybe a couple of extra zeros in them, personally.

Ash Patel: Yeah. Interesting perspective, and thank you for sharing that... Because a lot of people are appalled that they're raising extra money just to give it back. But what you said makes a lot of sense.

Break: [00:14:57.01]

Ash Patel: What have you seen in terms of syndicators experiencing pain today, with this rising rate environment?

Randy Smith: Ultimately, we're starting to hear about operators -- I personally have some operators that I have invested in; not folks that I have actually raised capital for, but I have folks that I have invested in, that I am coming up on 18 months without receiving a distribution, when the expectation on the frontend was three to six months. I am hearing quite a bit that some of the smaller operators, or maybe some of the operators that grew too fast too quick, without the infrastructure in place, that we're starting to hear about capital calls coming into play...

And then of course, deal flow has all but shut off. So deals are much harder to come by. I think we're going to start seeing groups look at new markets, that have a little bit different offering than what they're used to in the past. But moving into new markets is going to require new infrastructure, and new relationships, and new history to rebuild that track record in the new market. So lots of interesting things going on right now.

Ash Patel: Which is why it's important to have somebody like you that qualifies these GPs... And I love what you said about being vertically-integrated, especially with supply chain issues, being able to control your timeline, your resources, your tradespeople, all of that... Very important. And the experienced larger syndicators have all bought rate caps and are prepared for a rising rate environment. Very, very important. What made you want to start a fund to funds model?

Randy Smith: It's a good question. And honestly, about two weeks prior to me launching the new opportunity, I didn't even know that that was an option, or that it was something that I would even look at. So in my experience, or in my history, ultimately what had happened is I had invested very, very heavily with one operator here in my home market of Phoenix, Arizona. And I am one of the guys that I like to shout it from the mountaintop when I find something that I like. So I told anybody and everybody that was listening what I was doing as a passive investor... So I was able to refer a very large number of investors to this operator that I had been investing very heavily with.

So when I got the word about my layoff from corporate America, I had a conversation with the operator that I had been investing with, and he suggested that we take a look at this as an option. And he provided a ton of support. He really just kind of handheld me through the process, and we learned (or I learned) that I could very, very quickly turn on a business, provide the value that I had been sharing with all of my friends and family up to this point, and make it a little more professional and get a logo and a website... And the business was launched.

And from there, the idea that I could actually bring a ton educational content and a ton of value to that new traditional investor, to help them understand and see the benefits of passive investing... That literally, it's not impossible to think that within a couple of years, a high-earning W-2 income earner can go from that model to work optional, or leave their W-2 in a fairly short amount of time.

Ash Patel: How does that happen?

Randy Smith: How does that happen?

Ash Patel: Yeah.

Randy Smith: First and foremost, you make that first investment; either get educated or get trained yourself on how to find and do due diligence on operators and deals and markets and asset classes, or find somebody that has invested the time and energy and money to do that themselves, and have the experience, and partner with them to start your investing journey in this space.

My goal is to help a large number of people make that first, second and third investment, because once you have a few investments under your belt, and you're getting your distributions, and you're seeing monthly communications, and you're starting to understand this business model, the array of opportunities just opens up dramatically.

Simply listening to your guys' podcast alone, and reading the book, [unintelligible 00:21:14.23] the Best Ever Bible - literally, it gives you everything you need to know, to be a fully equipped to become a passive investor and to start that journey.

Ash Patel: What happens after the third deal that they invest in?

Randy Smith: Well, of course, after the third deal, there's going to be the fourth and fifth and 10th and 20th and 50th, hopefully... So my hope is that I build enough education and assist in a way that we'll continue to partner... But there are a lot of different deals out there, a lot of asset classes, and everybody's got their own unique path... So it gives them the education that they can at least start to branch out and find all kinds of different opportunities.

Ash Patel: How often do your investors receive communications? Monthly, quarterly?

Randy Smith: Yeah, good question. So current investors get monthly updates about their specific investments from my operators. I've only worked with operators that do monthly updates. My business impact equity is not filling their inbox with 30 emails a month about education content, or attend this event, or do that... I send out one newsletter per month saying "Here's what we're doing it Impact Equity, and secondly, here's a podcasts we've been on, the content we put out there." We put it in one email. I don't want to put two or three or five or 10 emails per week in their inbox just to fill up.

Ash Patel: Thank you. [laughs]

Randy Smith: Yeah, you're welcome. So I do one a week in a newsletter, and if they are accredited or sophisticated, then they will get a notification when those type of details are published.

Ash Patel: Randy, do you take the communication from the syndicator and break it down, and then parse it or forward it to your investors? Or do you just forward it to the investors?

Randy Smith: Yeah, so in both situations, both partners I'm working with, the actual partner or syndicator themselves handles the monthly communication with the updates about the assets.

Ash Patel: Got it? Okay. In terms of asset classes, multifamily has been compressing for a long time; it's getting harder to find deals, and not a lot of people anticipate this rising rate environment. Are you looking to pivot into other asset classes?

Randy Smith: Yes. So ultimately, my goal is to have three or four different operators that I partner with, and have the intent of putting one deal per month in front of my investors. My goal is to offer diversification across to operators, diversification across geography, or market, and diversification across asset classes as well.

So I personally am invested in mobile homes in addition to multifamily, self-storage... I am in an ATM fund as well, which is just amazing cash flow... But I love industrial, I'm looking at short-term rental, I like build to rent... So it's just a matter of really testing the appetite of my investors to see where their interest is, and then aligning with the best operators in the space to provide those options.

Ash Patel: And to play it safe in this environment, is bigger, better? The bigger operators, the more experienced operators? Or if there's a newer, smaller operator that maybe offers higher returns, would that get your attention?

Randy Smith: Ultimately, I'll look at anything. But for me, it's going to come down to track record. I worked for two very large, well respected brands for well over 20 years. So I'm a big brand guy. In fact, that's why I invested with Joe Fairless and your organization for my second investment, because you're a big brand, I felt that while I might not get the very best returns with the biggest brand, I feel confident investing in your organization, because the infrastructure is there, the supports there, the resources are there.

So, historically, I like big brand, large organizations, but I won't discount somebody who I think is just a superstar rockstar that is up and coming if they can show prior experience and history being a top performer in whatever they did coming into the space.

Ash Patel: You have decades of experience in sales training... Which skills have you brought over into your capital raising environment?

Randy Smith: Good question. So it all comes down to relationships, ultimately... But how you manage and facilitate those relationships I think is really important. In this space - this is not a hard sell space, so hard closing people on investments I think is a terrible, terrible idea. I think it all comes down to relationships. You hear that you've got to know, like and trust somebody before you invest with them... And to a certain extent, I agree with that, but I think it takes more than that as well. I think this investment journey is extremely personal, and that first investment out of traditional investment is very, very scary... So being able to handhold, provide guidance and support, and just understand this is a very, very big decision for these investors, and these are hard-earned dollars... 25k, 50k, 100k dollars - some people will save for a large, large, large amount of time to come up with those type of dollars. So it's critically important that we're very, very serious and very, very confident in our ability to place that capital without putting it at more risk than the returns would require.

Ash Patel: What do you see capital raisers doing wrong?

Randy Smith: I see a lot of people throwing a lot of deals out there, and I think it's just the nature of the market right now. Capital's much harder to come by, where every operator out there - maybe not every... A lot of operators out there are having a hard time finding capital, so they're bringing on a lot of different folks to raise capital for them. And I don't always believe in the due diligence process that some of these folks have gone through, that they'll meet somebody at a meet up, and then the next week they're raising capital for them.

My relationship with my investors is too important for me to just put any deal in front of them. And it's interesting, at first I was only going to put deals in front of my investors that I personally had had history, invested with, had received distributions, communication and had a long-standing relationship with it. I only had a handful of folks that I had that type of relationships, so I felt that that was actually hurting my ability to put good deals in front of my investors. So I've broadened that slightly, to where if my superpower truly is due diligence, and vetting operators, and vetting deals, and if I'm willing to put my own dollars into that investment, I feel confident putting that in front of my investors at this point.

Ash Patel: That's a very important point. I've had a number of capital raisers approach me and wanting to put their investors' funds into our deals. They asked no questions. We've never used them, but they claim that they do all this due diligence, look at all the numbers... They literally look at nothing, and want to put in hundreds of thousands of dollars into deals. So how do you qualify somebody like you? Because they're all going to tell you they do the due diligence, "We look at the numbers. I know, like and trust this operator. They have experience." How do I qualify you?

Randy Smith: If and when I'm a syndicator myself - because that is a likelihood that that'll come down the path for me in the future - I will vet all partners the same way, and that comes down to track record. What you've done in the past is a good indication of what you're going to do in the future.

So myself, I personally have invested in 18 deals across four different asset classes, with eight different operators, that I've got, my wife and our families 75% of our entire net worth is tied up in these deals at this point. I'm putting my money where my mouth is. And it's interesting you ask that question, because I know a lot of capital raisers that have never invested in a deal before, so they don't know what it's like to go down to the bank and tell your bank that I'm wiring 25k, 50k or 100k dollars and see the look on the bank's face when they say, "You know, there's a lot of scams out there where people will get this wiring information and they wire it overseas..." That's a very uncomfortable conversation to have with the banker, and if you've not done that before, you can't possibly be compassionate about that with your investors as well.

So back in the days, as a sales guy, as a sales leader, it was important that all the sales leaders had carried the bag before they start leading salespeople. And I think it's the same thing here. You have to have invested your own dollars, done your own due diligence in order for you to have the credibility to ask the same for your investors.

Ash Patel: Randy, we hear a lot about out funnels, and MailChimp, and all these different tools and CRM systems to raise capital... What are some quick tips that you can give maybe syndicators on increasing their capital raise or being more effective?

Randy Smith: When I first launched my business, I had, as I mentioned, 25 years in corporate America. I had use LinkedIn for networking aggressively for the last 10 years. So people I had worked with, people that were my clients, people that I was networking with for the last 10 years. So that was my network. So I sent a message to everybody I was connected in in LinkedIn, using some very cool automation, and literally within days I had hit my target for my first raise. Literally, I had conversations with people that said, "Randy, you helped me so much at X, Y and Z. Anything you're doing, I'll throw 100k at." That's the best compliment in the world. Some of these people I hadn't talked to in years. So I don't think you can show up as a syndicator or a capital raiser or anything and ask for money if you haven't been able to show up and build trust and credibility in what you've been doing up to that point. So leverage your strength and reach to that well, because those people know, like, and trust you already.

Ash Patel: Great advice.

Randy Smith: I've had some people say, "Randy, what's the trick? What would you suggest I do as a new capital raiser?" I said "First of all, go be a sales and sales manager for 25 years, and then launch your capital raising business, and you'll be all set."

Ash Patel: Come on, Randy, we want shortcuts.

Randy Smith: Yeah, sorry. There's not. There's just not.

Ash Patel: Yeah. Randy, what is your best real estate investing advice ever?

Randy Smith: Make that first investment. That's it. Get started. I waited far too long before making my first passive or active investment. I wish I would have done it 10 years earlier.

Ash Patel: Is now a good time to get into real estate, Randy?

Randy Smith: I think every time is a good time to get into real estate. There is always a way to make dollars in this space.

Ash Patel: I agree with you. Randy, are you ready for the Best Ever lightning round?

Randy Smith: Can't wait.

Ash Patel: Alright, Randy, what's the Best Ever book you've recently read?

Randy Smith: I'm a big, big fan of Dan Sullivan, Benjamin Hardy. "Who, not how" is helping me a ton with my new business right now. So "Who, not how."

Ash Patel: Yeah, a big game-changer for a lot of people. Randy, what's the Best Ever way you like to give back?

Randy Smith: A good question, I had to give this some thought. My wife and I used to give pretty heavily to some very specific organizations... And we shifted gears in the last year, so we're actually giving very heavily to our family, and to those closest to us, because they were there when we needed them in the past, and just provided amazing support to us over the years... So we're really trying to help those around us the most.

Ash Patel: And Randy, how can the Best Ever listeners reach out to you?

Randy Smith: The easiest way to find me is on LinkedIn, under Randy Smith, or you can always go to the website, and I've got a great free giveaway "Top 10 Questions to Ask Syndicators" if put your name and phone number in the lower left hand corner.

Ash Patel: Randy, thank you again for sharing your time with us today. 25 years in corporate America, and that layoff really prompted you to accelerate your real estate career. Thanks for sharing all of your tips with us as well.

Randy Smith: Yeah, it was a pleasure. I really, really appreciate and respect what you're doing as well, Ash. Thanks for all you're bringing to the community.

Ash Patel: Thank you. Best Ever listeners, thank you so much for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a five star review, share this podcast with somebody you think can benefit from it. Also, follow, subscribe and have a Best Ever day.

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