July 3, 2022

JF2861: Navigating the Complexity of LA Property Development ft. David Coe


David Coe began his real estate career fixing and flipping houses with his wife, leaving his corporate job behind so that he could spend more time with his family. After managing his way through the Great Recession, he doubled down by getting more involved in the real estate investing community, eventually getting involved in syndications as both a passive investor and general partner. 

Today, David is a developer at Capital Stack Investments, runs a residential real estate team, and works as an active realtor. In this episode, he discusses the complexity that comes with developing properties in the Los Angeles market, why he considers it a niche, the toughest lesson he’s learned when it comes to construction, and his advice for evaluating deals.

 

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1. The Complexity of Developing Properties in Los Angeles

“Trust me, what we’re doing is not for the faint of heart,” David says. “This is real estate investing at its highest level. It’s really complex out here.” Over the years, however, instead of trying to do complex projects simply and efficiently, he has learned to seek out simple and efficient projects. 

Because of the many barriers to entry when it comes to developing properties in the Los Angeles area, David considers it a niche. “There are a lot of people scared of LA, and look, LA is complicated,” he says. “We do have a lot of moving parts that you've got to navigate to do it. So I think of myself as a niche investor where we’re developing properties in a market  … that has all kinds of demands for it.” 

 

2. The Most Expensive Aspect of Construction

The best lesson David has learned from his development career is that time is the most expensive thing when it comes to construction. “Nothing is more destructive to a development deal than time,” he says. “So saving a dollar is way less important than saving a day.” 

 

3. Advice for Evaluating Deals

David advises against evaluating deals in what he calls a real estate vacuum, without taking your own perspective, experience, and needs into account. It’s important to first determine who you are, what your risk level is, what your expectations are, and what level of control you want to have.  “Every deal could be a good deal, but it might not be a good deal for you,” he says.

 

David Coe | Real Estate Background

 

 

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TRANSCRIPTION

Slocomb Reed: Best Ever listeners, welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I'm Slocomb Reed, and I'm here with David Coe. David is joining us from Los Angeles. He is an investor and developer at Capital Stack Investments, which syndicates infill new construction projects in Los Angeles. Currently GP of 85 units across five properties, and an LP in several deals as well.

David, can you tell us a little bit more about your background, and what you're currently focused on?

David Coe: Yes. I started my career fixing and flipping houses with my wife. I'm an ex-corporate guy, worked in marketing and advertising for a while, and had a couple of kids. And as they were getting older, I spent a lot of time traveling on the road, versus spend time with the kids.

So I made the migration into real estate in 2006 and 2007, I started fixing and flipping homes. I was having a great time until 2009 and 2010. And we managed our way through it and started getting more involved in the real estate investing community, started learning more about kind of the economics of real estate versus just focusing on the individual home of real estate.

And then over my career got more involved on the passive side of investing, kind of moved over on the general partner side on a couple of deals as well. And as you mentioned, we really like doing new construction infill here in LA. But I also do run a residential real estate team. I'm an active realtor, and we mostly focus on 1-4 units here in the South Bay, which is everything south of LAX if you know LA. And then I also have part of my team that does specialize in selling new construction homes. So part of my team is working on resale. We do work with a lot of investors and then part of my team purely focuses on new construction sales, some of which I GP on, some of which we’re just the broker on.

Slocomb Reed: Got you. So the new construction, the stuff that you're developing is primarily single-family homes?

David Coe: Yeah. Technically, they're commercial projects. We've got a 27-unit small lot subdivision; we do a lot of small lot subdivisions, which here in LA density is an issue. So what that is, it's—the technical term is a zero lot line, new construction project. So we're building 1,800 sqft homes on 900 sqft lots that are this far apart from each other, but they are single-family homes. They've got their own footings, their own foundations, there's no adjoining walls, and that's been one of the city of Los Angeles is way—they kind of call it medium density. It's homeownership, without having—

Slocomb Reed: There are very few places in the world where you can get away with calling them medium density, but I guess LA is one of them.

David Coe: Composed to a seven-story 200-unit apartment building. And its homeownership—

Slocomb Reed: Of course, of course.

David Coe: Yeah.

Slocomb Reed: Yeah. And how big are the lots, did you say?

David Coe: The average thing we build as an 1800 sqft home on a 900 sqft lot. So yes, I said that correct. So think of three and four-storyy units, super-modern—

Slocomb Reed: It has to be, right? Yeah.

David Coe: Yeah, that first-time homebuyer, maybe second-time homebuyer, just because older people don't like all the stairs. We do a lot in the city of LA, a lot up in the Valley. So we have a very, I'll say, high entertainment industry buyer. So we spend a lot of extra time on technology and high design, and we've got a lot of demand for that product out here.

Slocomb Reed: David, as you know, the Best Ever podcast is a commercial real estate investing podcast, but I'm also a residential real estate agent here in Cincinnati. After I bought my house hack, I became an agent to become a better investor, to get more involved. So this isn't really for the Best Ever listeners. This is mostly just for me, but I have to ask, 1800 square feet in three or four storeys on a 900 square foot lot... The first two questions that come to mind are, first of course, what's the price point for these things when they're built?

David Coe: Well, you'll especially appreciate this being—you said from Ohio, Cincinnati?

Slocomb Reed: Yes. Cincinnati, Ohio.

David Coe: Actually, when we first started three years ago, I'd say these price points were in the high seven hundreds to the low eight hundreds. That same home now is probably in the mid and high nine hundreds into the 1.1 to 1.2 range.

Slocomb Reed: Gotcha.

David Coe: It's all house, no land, but again, this particular buyer - they aren't as concerned about having a big backyard. They're newly married, they're starting a family... It's been a big part of what's driving this real estate upward cycle over the last three years is that millennials hit the home-buying phase, and they're getting married or starting families, and they like the idea of having something they can lock up, travel and not have to worry about yard maintenance or anything else. And quite honestly, we can't build them fast enough.

Slocomb Reed: Cincinnati is an old enough city that we have a lot of residential parcels that are incredibly narrow, because you're talking about old school row houses, shotgun style, built in the late 1800s. In the early 1900s, lots were a little more square, and you have more street frontage. But the old old neighborhoods for us, that's from the Civil War until the turn of the century; you have a lot of those really narrow parcels.

So what I'm envisioning - help me, David - 3-4 stories, correct my assumptions here; the first floor is actually more like the garage, and stairs to the second floor, where the second floor is the primary living space. And then the third and maybe fourth floors are bedrooms, full bathrooms, maybe a deck if there's some sort of view involved... Is that what you're building?

David Coe: Yeah, pretty much. And I've had someone compare what we do is to modern brownstones, right? So that same thing that—

Slocomb Reed: Yes, absolutely.

David Coe: —post-Civil War era, New York style, dense construction, bricks build that far apart from each other... That's exactly it. The only thing is probably a little different is our first floor, our base design, we actually have a bedroom and a bathroom and the garage on the first level, and then bedrooms could be on the second, living could be on the third or vice versa, depending on the model and the plan. And usually, that fourth level is a rooftop deck of some kind, or a loft with a patio; it kind of depends on the particular project.

Slocomb Reed: Shout out to Cincinnati, Ohio. You talked about Brooklyn brownstones - all of those developers, including the developers of the Brooklyn Bridge, started in Cincinnati. I think they just wanted to get their reps in and figure out that they knew what they were doing before they went to Brooklyn, but we have a lot of that.

David Coe: Practice on Ohio, is that how it works?

Slocomb Reed: They practiced on—that’s exactly what happened. First of all, Cincinnati was a booming metropolis at the time, third largest city in the Union coming out of the Civil War. But yes, our Roebling Bridge was a practice for the Brooklyn Bridge. So I'm very familiar with the construction you're talking about. And there are very urban neighborhoods here in Cincinnati, where that same thing is being built now. Price point is considerably lower. They start in the fours, get to the sixes here; have nice views of downtown, especially in the sixes... But yeah, okay. So let's be a commercial real estate investing podcast again, David. I would love to hear about the numbers. I introduced you as syndicating these opportunities. Let me fill in a couple of gaps, and then I have some questions; correct me anywhere that I'm wrong, David.

You said usually around 27 units. These are relatively small projects for ground-up construction of single family. Thinking from the perspective of an investor who may be interested in this kind of deal is likely comparing it to traditional multifamily value-add syndication with a 3-7 year hold period. There's cashflow involved, so the preferred return but you're looking at an IRR—let's not be 2022-specific, it's an IRR of 15% to 20%, 2X equity multiple. Let's make a point of comparison between the deals that you've done and that. What do the numbers look like for your investors?

David Coe: Yeah, so actually, that's a pretty good description. Our IRRs might be a little bit higher, our equity multiple might be a little bit higher. And more than—probably the biggest thing is that these aren't build-to-rent projects, right? These are built-to-sell projects. So our timelines are way shorter. And depending on whether or not we're raising capital at the entitlement phase versus raising capital at the construction phase, which are two distinctly different phases, the IRR will be vastly different.

Entitlement, especially here in Los Angeles, in California, is a wildcard, and because of that, it's hard to estimate the amount of time it's going to take to get all your permits. And for people that are interested in wanting to understand more about that, entitlement is basically just getting your permits, right? Submitting everything to the city and going through the process of getting your permits to build. These are commercial projects; going into it—

Slocomb Reed: Yes, totally.

David Coe: —this is definitely a commercial project. The end unit is a residential unit, but these are commercial projects. And we do have some of these units that we're selling. We've had investors, they like this because they don't have land maintenance, right? So they become really good rental that's—and, Slocomb, in LA that $800,000 to $950,000 unit, that's a three-bedroom, 3.5-bath unit. You can rent that for five to six grand a month out here. So there are some good returns on that for the individual residential investor, but we like to be in the low 20s for an IRR, maybe in the high 20s if you're coming in on the entitlement phase, just because there's extra risk, and there's extra time that you're probably looking at. And ideally, where we like to be now is we actually like to get in once a project has been entitled, or we want to get in on a project that has a very fast entitlement process.

One of the things that we've kind of gravitated towards as time has gone on is building more one to four-unit—and I say one to four, we're really starting to move into building fourplexes, where we can buy it as a residential unit. It's a by-right entitlement process, so we don't have a lot of discretionary approvals that we need from the city. We can usually get through that in about a 6-8 month process. And then they're not commercial grade; they’re residential grade, all lumber, no steel, we can build them in less than a year. And when we're done, one of the things that California has done to try to increase density is add what's called Accessory Dwelling Units, or ADUs.

Slocomb Reed: ADUs. Yeah.

David Coe: So we'll convert a garage to an ADU, which becomes our fifth unit. And then we'll take that out with long-term commercial debt, because we're now a five-plus unit. So that's been one of the things that we've been kind of moving to, especially as market conditions are changing here a little bit. So instead of that buy-to-sell, we've been looking more at that buy-to-rent kind of project, but buying a single-family lot and building a four-unit on it, and then adding that fifth unit is a very much faster process than the 27-unit small lots that we've been involved in in the past; the entitlement time is way shorter, the construction time is way shorter.

And quite frankly, since you're not looking to exit when you get CO, that's when you're looking to cashflow it and starting to hold it for your cash flow period. We've been looking at IRRs, kind of in the high teens for those, I'd say 18% to 19% based on the project, equity multiples in that 2.4 for that same 5-7 year hold period.

Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. That was a lot that you just dropped on us very quickly, David. A couple of things real quick - comparing this to multifamily, value-add syndication... When it comes to the build-to-sell single families for your investors, you're looking at effectively a comparable or slightly higher IRR and equity multiple than what multifamily syndicators are offering. However, there's no cashflow in the meantime, is there?

David Coe: There is not; not on new construction.

Slocomb Reed: Which means that because investors are not getting their capital returned to them over time throughout the hold period of the deal, that the actual eventual return at the end will be greater in order to hit that higher IRR, because you've returned all the capital at the end instead of returning some of it through the duration of the process. Talking all this out loud for myself as much as for the Best Ever listeners, David.

Now when you're building four plexes, four units being the most that you can, while still qualifying as residential property, of course, and then put a garage on it and turn the garage into an ADU after the fact, so that you're getting five units, even though you're able to construct with residential requirements... You build that, you rent it, you then sell it as a cash flowing rental property, or do you keep it in refi?

David Coe: Yes, and yes. Right? One of the good things about these smaller deals is that we kind of can create what the in-strategy is based on kind of what the intent of the investor is. Here in LA, having a property - and really anywhere in America, being one mile apart, could have a completely different vibe—

Slocomb Reed: Totally. Totally.

David Coe: —you know, with the project, right? So some of these projects are more about—look, especially if they're in a more residential area, that might be the one where we want to lease it up, we want to stabilize it; we generally will do the cash out refi once we get full [unintelligible 00:15:42.29] on that. We don't return a lot of investor capital at that point in time, just because we don't want to take on a lot of debt on the backend, which will affect the cash flow. So we'll kind of look at the capital event at the end, the liquidation period of the investment to where they're going to get their appreciation, and instead try to minimize the amount of debt during the whole period to increase the cash flow... Which - we're looking at about a 6% to 8% cash on cash after we've gone through and done completion on those types of projects.

There are some though that we have a long hold period horizon on, especially in Hollywood, areas that are really appreciating quickly, that are close to job centers... This is a very similar renter to the avatar that we're selling houses to. But maybe it's that Netflix engineer who's coming out here, they're just going to be here for two or three years, and then they know they're not going to stay here long term; or they're an attorney. We've got so many different industries here in Southern California that people can work in. So we definitely build those more like a roommate situation; every bedroom has a bathroom in it, and there's always a house bath. And again, we're renting those for $5,000 to $6,000 a month per unit, right? So if you've got a four unit, you've got a good $25,000 and maybe another $2500 off the ADU; we're grossing close to 25 to 30 grand a month off of those. And when we can get one of those in a location that we think is going to stay a good rental property for a long time, we may go through a couple of cycles of cash out refinance as the value builds, slowly return some equity to investors over time and just kind of keep that cash flow machine rolling.

Slocomb Reed: Gotcha. So assuming you're going to hold it long term, $25,000 to $30,000, monthly gross rent from five units. What kind of valuation is that going to get if you decide to refinance? And how does that compare to your construction costs or your development costs?

David Coe: One of the things that we like about new construction - and you said value-add earlier, so I'm going to play off of that typical value-add multifamily deal.

Slocomb Reed: Sure. Of course.

David Coe: We look at ourselves as the ultimate value-add; we're literally scraping down an old stock inventory, and starting brand new. So it takes time. When you get involved in new construction, you have to have patience, because it's going to take some time to maybe get through entitlements, it will take some time to get everything completed. But when you're done, you've got a brand new building, brand new sewer, brand new electrical, brand new plumbing, everything is brand new.

So our difference between gross and net is actually not that different. Our holding costs, especially upfront, are really really low. We don't have a lot of maintenance. This is not low-income housing. We're looking at targeting higher-end renters, which we don't have a lot of vacancy on these; a lot of demand for that type of unit out here.

So our evaluations have been really, really strong. Certain lenders will go up to 80% of what they perceive the value of the property to be against our NOI. I think right now it's kind of a funky time, rates are being—the Feds—

Slocomb Reed: We're recording at the end of May 2022. It's a funky time for everyone in every industry, not just real estate or commercial real estate. Go ahead, David.

David Coe: Yeah, totally. So I would say we're somewhere in that 70% to 80% range, at the end of it from a cash out refi standpoint, is what the banks are evaluating it on, which is pretty standard to typical multifamily. We're small multifamily. But on those projects, that's really where we end up, a five unit apartment building that out here that five unit apartment building has a value of about $2.5 million, but it took us with the land acquisition, with the construction costs, we’re probably just under $2 million to build it. So our value-add is that there's a half a million dollars of equity we can create by being patient and doing new construction. And getting a deal in LA is really, really hard, unless you build it. So that's kind of how we got in—

Slocomb Reed: A new construction deal with Class A location, Class A tenants. Yeah.

David Coe: It's a great long-term hold. And this is maybe diving a little bit too deep in the rabbit hole, but in California, everyone hears about the awful landlord-tenant rules and everything's in favor of the tenant versus—

Slocomb Reed: All the regulation involved in renovation, much less construction... Oh, yeah.

David Coe: Oh, trust me, what we're doing is not for the faint of heart. This is real estate investing at its highest level. It's really complex out here. But part of what we've kind of learned over the years is instead of trying to do complex projects simply and efficiently, let's just find simple and efficient projects to do. Mostly what we're buying here are single-family homes on a multifamily zoned lot, we tear down a single-family home, which is usually owner-occupied, so we don't have a rental unit that we have to replace and deal with rent stabilization on all of the rent control issues; that's off the table. The fact that it's new construction - new construction is exempt from rent control for 15 years out here in LA. So we avoid that part of it. And because we've got a Class A tenant, we don't have a lot of the tenant-landlord issues that you might have if you've got a Class B/Class C type of tenant. So that's kind of where I'd say our vision is moving forward.

We like the buy-and-hold strategy. While we liked the big [unintelligible 00:21:16.01] with new construction. And as a realtor, I love being a GP on one side and the realtor on the other, don't get me wrong, but we are cashflow investors as well. But our ultimate value out here is we'll just build it, because then we know it was built right; we don't have to go back in and wonder what was behind the walls. We did it, we know what's there, and we're managing our own stuff, and we've found that that's a very profitable place to be.

Break: [00:21:44.22] to [00:23:28.24]

Slocomb Reed: David, a couple of things real quick, and then we'll transition to the last segment of the show. First, what you are calling a simple deal is not all that simple to the vast majority of investors; you've just found ways to simplify what is already a complex process. You're not just a newbie active investor who’s not going to the MLS and recognizing that a single-family owner-occupied home is sitting on multifamily land that can be developed. And most people are not going to see all of the nuances to a deal that simplify it for you. That's getting towards a larger point that I'd like to make, David.

I'm in the Midwest, I'm in Cincinnati, Ohio. I know people who have come here from California and call it the wild wild west of real estate investing, because it feels to them like it's just lawless here and you can do whatever you want. That's not necessarily the case. But there's a lot less red tape in Ohio than there is in California for sure.

I've had the opportunity to interview a few successful commercial real estate investors from California who are doing deals in California, in the Bay Area, LA, places like that recently, and the theme that I'm coming across, David, is that one of the reasons for success... It's a combination. It's one of the reasons why the investors I know who are successful in places like LA are successful, is also the reason that the vast majority of people who are interested in real estate investing won't touch Los Angeles, and that's a very high barrier to entry.

That high barrier to entry most often shows itself as higher property values and price points that price people out, but also the level of complexity involved in order to accomplish most real estate investment strategies where you are is high enough that it reduces the number of operators in the space and creates opportunity for those who are willing to do the hard work to figure out how it is that they can accomplish what they're accomplishing in Los Angeles. Does that all resonate with you, David?

David Coe: It does. And I'll give Best Ever a shameless plug here. I spoke at Best Ever on a new construction panel. And actually there was someone who spoke at Best Ever who was involved in retail... And talk about an asset class that has a lot of negative baggage against it right now.

Slocomb Reed: Right. Yeah.

David Coe: Retail, especially mall type of environments - everyone is migrating out of that space, but there is still a market for retail moving forward. So when you talk about a niche, I'm talking about being successful finding a niche, something that you're doing that no one else is doing, is something where you can find opportunity. There are a lot of people scared of LA; and look, LA's complicated. We do have a lot of moving parts that you've got to navigate to do it. So I think of myself as a niche investor, where we're developing properties in a market that just happens to be the second largest DMA in the country, that has all kinds of demand for it. We're really short on supply because it's so hard to do. So when you do get something out of the ground and get it permitted, you have a lot of interest, both on the rent side and the for-sale side for doing that.

So I definitely see this as a niche. We see ourselves as niche investors, and our niche just happens to be in a market that has fantastic weather, a huge economy, a lot of job growth... Our favorite stat when we talk about and defend LA in California - last year, Los Angeles added 293,000 jobs. That's more jobs than Austin, it's more jobs than Denver, it's more jobs than Seattle, and it's more jobs than Phoenix combined. So from a job growth standpoint and metrics of LA because it's such a big city offers a ton of opportunity. You just have to have the ability and the patience to learn the system and learn how to navigate it.

Slocomb Reed: David, are you ready for the Best Ever lightning round?

David Coe: Let’s do it.

Slocomb Reed: Awesome. What is the best ever book you recently read?

David Coe: So one of my all-time favorite books -- and it's a real estate book; if you haven't read this, it's called Ninja Selling. Have you ever read this book?

Slocomb Reed: I've heard of it. I haven't read it. No.

David Coe: It's a great book. And look, it's written as a real estate agent book, but really what it talks about is it talks about selling through attraction, versus being an extroverted salesperson. So I think it's helped me a lot in my residential real estate career, but I think it's also helped me a lot in our fundraising capabilities. So being able to attract investors to us, versus having to go out and find investors. There's a lot that I've got from that. But if you are a realtor and looking to build your business, I highly recommend Ninja Selling.

Slocomb Reed: Awesome. What is your best ever way to give back?

David Coe: I'm super-involved in the community. I really love the schools. So the Redondo Beach Educational Foundation is a cause that I've been a board member for for 10 years; we actually do a lot of giving back through my real estate business. We give back a fair amount of our profit at the end of the year to different local charities. And in fact, Memorial Day weekend—I'm not sure when it's going to air—but I'm actually from New Orleans, even though I live out here in LA... We're throwing a huge crawfish boil -- a block party, and all the money that we raise that day is going to go towards the local school.

So the way I like to give back is by getting into the community, helping to raise capital, and more importantly, volunteering my time. I've got a lot to offer from a nonprofit standpoint, and I've been doing that pretty much ever since I became self-employed and involved in real estate.

Slocomb Reed: Nice. David, specific to your development deals, and the ones that you've syndicated, what's the biggest mistake you've made, and the best ever lesson that you learned from it?

David Coe: Best lesson in development is this - the most expensive thing in construction is time. Nothing is more destructive to a development deal than time. So saving $1 is way less important than saving a day. If you can save a day here, a day there... Not that you don't want to be careful about how you spend your money—

Slocomb Reed: Of course. Of course.

David Coe: —but saving time and doing things quickly is far more important than doing things inexpensively. And we've learned that lesson the hard way a couple of times. Especially—

Slocomb Reed: You’re going to have to tell us about the hard way now, David.

David Coe: Yeah. I mean, look, the hard way is trying to hire inexpensive people that don't show up on time, that have too many jobs... It's really the old adage of "you get what you pay for." And if you hire low-cost construction help, you're going to get low-cost construction work. We've really learned the hard way that it's better to invest in larger subs that have bigger teams, they show up on time, they get their work done on time, and being done on time is way more important than being done inexpensively.

Slocomb Reed: David, what is your best ever advice?

David Coe: My best ever advice that I always tell people, especially from an investor standpoint, is you cannot look at any real estate deal in a vacuum. The lens you have to look through that deal is through your own lens. So the best thing you can do as an investor is to know thyself. You have to understand why you're investing, you have to understand what it is you're looking to do; are you looking for cash flow? Are you looking for appreciation? Are you investing for legacy? What it is, and then look at deals, right? But the deals that I'm doing might be perfectly right for someone and perfectly wrong for someone else. If you don't know what you're trying to accomplish in real estate, it's hard to look at a deal and determine whether it's a good deal. Every deal could be a good deal, but it might not be a good deal for you.

So the first thing you have to figure out is who you are, what your risk level are, what your expectations are, what your level of control is. Some people don't like to be in control, and investing passively is the best way for them, because they don't want the responsibility of having to make day-to-day decisions. Some people are control freaks, and they need to have control over the funds, or else they feel like their money's being mismanaged no matter who they're investing with.

So know thyself, and then look at deals.

Slocomb Reed: David, where can people get in touch with you?

David Coe: If you go to capitalstackinvestments.com, we have a website up, we've got a couple of projects... Actually, if you want to see pictures of what a small lot subdivision looks like, you can see some photos there. We also get involved in some small multifamily as well. We've got a 15-unit mixed-use that's getting ready to break ground in Gardena.

But besides finding some really pretty pictures of new construction here in LA, we also have something on our website called “Lessons From 50 Deals”. And if you sign up for that, once a week, we've gotten all kinds of lessons. Usually, the lessons are the bad things that happen, not always the good things that happen, but if you sign up for the website, you'll get a lesson a week for the next 50 weeks on some things that we've learned over our careers as investors.

Slocomb Reed: And a link to your website, David, is included in the shownotes. David, thank you. Best Ever listeners, thank you as well. If you've gained value from this conversation about how to succeed in development deals in a metro like Los Angeles please do subscribe to our show. Leave us a five star review and share this episode with a friend you know that we can add value to through our conversation with David Coe today. Thank you and have a best ever day.

David Coe: Thank you, Slocomb. Really appreciate it.

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The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are provided for informational purposes only, and should not be construed as an offer to buy or sell any securities or to make or consider any investment or course of action. For more information, go to www.bestevershow.com.

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