How do you pursue sellers who are on the fence about selling their property? Akam Ahmedi, co-founder of Invest Capital, shares his successful follow-up strategy that has helped him close on three multifamily properties, one of which took two years to close. Akam divulges how he found these off-market deals, along with the details of these properties.
Akam Ahmedi | Real Estate Background
- Co-founder of Invest Capital, which specializes in acquiring off-market opportunities by going direct to seller and buying properties at highly favorable prices and terms. They value-add Class A and B areas, aim to refinance within two to three years, and give their investors their original principal back.
- Portfolio: GP of 240 units; $30M in AUM.
- Five years of real estate experience — entered multifamily one year ago.
- Based in: Washington, D.C.
- Say hi to him at: www.investapts.com | Socials: https://shor.by/xiOM
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Joe Fairless: Best Ever listeners, how are you doing? Welcome to The Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever Show. I’m Joe Fairless. This is the world’s longest-running daily real estate investing podcast, where we only talk about the best advice ever, we don’t get into any fluffy stuff. With us today day, Akam Ahmedi. How are you doing, Akam?
Akam Ahmedi: I’m doing fantastic. How are you, Joe?
Joe Fairless: Well, I’m glad to hear that, and I’m doing fantastic, too; looking forward to our conversation. A little bit about Akam, he’s the co-founder of Invest Capital, and their website is investapts.com. Props to you for getting that URL; that’s very intuitive to remember based on your business. Your business is primarily buying apartment communities, you’re a GP on 240 units, and those 240 units are worth about $30 million. Based in DC. With that being said, do you want to give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and your current focus?
Akam Ahmedi: Yeah, absolutely, Joe. Thanks for the intro there. It all really started coming out of college about five years ago, got into the marketing space, helping small businesses with their marketing, Facebook ads, Google ads, that sort of thing. That didn’t quite work out, didn’t like clients we were working with at the time, so I jumped into single-family wholesaling. About 2018, the beginning of 2018, I did a bunch of deals in the DMV; it stands for DC, Maryland, Virginia. We got into that, we liked what we were seeing there. However, it didn’t meet the long-term goals, but it was great for short-term cash.
We decided to get into flipping to bolster those numbers, the net numbers, and that increased our bottom line. That still didn’t hit our long-term goals; it did hit our short-term goals, and it bolstered it even more. We got into the next best thing, single-family, that’s very, very familiar right? Multifamily – we decided we wanted to do larger units upfront, take on the challenge, so we got into multifamily about a year and a half ago, closed our first deal. One and a half years later, we’re still doing about 24 flips a year in the DMV, but our primary focus is our commercial real estate business and going after these larger multifamily assets, 150 plus units.
Joe Fairless: Thank you. Some follow-up questions… First, marketing business – it didn’t work out; what specifically didn’t work out about it?
Akam Ahmedi: That’s a great question. If I could go back, I would have made it work out. At the time, one, I was inexperienced. The avatar that we were going for was the reason I believe it didn’t work out. We were learning a lot about marketing and the different types of strategies we can help business owners with. However, the avatar, when you’re going for a restaurant, that’s not bringing a lot of revenue and you have to charge them $1,000 a month. You start to realize that you can’t really provide a superior service for $1,000 a month. You also realize that lower-end clients – granted, they’re still in business; I wish them the best of luck, but they’re usually the biggest pain in the behind. You learn it the hard way, you could barely pay the bills, let alone provide a really good service. By the time the service was provided, there was no leftover cash to keep the business running or even pay the bills.
Joe Fairless: Okay, makes sense. So if you had to do that business again and you could not do real estate investing, how would you make that business successful?
Akam Ahmedi: The marketing business?
Joe Fairless: Yeah, the marketing business.
Akam Ahmedi: That’s a great question. Our avatar would change. I haven’t really thought about it, but just top of my mind, go for higher-end clients, individuals that are looking for lead gen, and a high-ticket space, aim for that. I would really niche down. In my mind right now, as I’m thinking about it, there could be a few things, but it would have to be in a high ticket space. The reason being is I’m all about the superior product, superior service, just top of everything, and that’s the reason you want to charge a lot. That way, if you’re charging say $10,000 to $15,000 a month, you could bring in a lot of weapons to provide that service that goes over the top, that raises their bottom line and makes them happy. Ultimately, they’re going to be happy to pay you 10, 15, 20 whatever the amount is, as long as you’re providing a superior service. That’s how I’d answer that question.
Joe Fairless: Now, you said “we” when you’re referring to your business and now I’m moving on to real estate. Who is “we”?
Akam Ahmedi: “We” is myself and my partner, Ace Karimi.
Joe Fairless: How do you know Ace?
Akam Ahmedi: Ace and I met in college at James Madison University; he transferred in, I believe, his junior year. It was kind of a lucky situation. My roommate and his roommate were best friends in high school, so when he transferred in, our roommates got together, they invited us out, and that’s how we met for the first time. From there, it was just clicking, growing and learning, and becoming closer friends. Then after college, we jumped into a few different business ventures together and it all worked out well.
Joe Fairless: How many years ago did you graduate college?
Akam Ahmedi: I don’t even think I’ve ever been asked that question, but six years ago now. In about three months, it’ll be six years.
Joe Fairless: Got it. Well, hopefully, that’s not the only question I ask that you haven’t been asked before. Otherwise, I’m not doing my job. Alright, so you two did wholesaling and flipping, and then you went to apartment communities… How many apartment communities do you have?
Akam Ahmedi: We currently have three apartment communities.
Joe Fairless: Okay, and they total 240 units. Can you give us a unit breakdown per community?
Akam Ahmedi: The first one was 72, the second one was 64, the third one was 102.
Joe Fairless: Got it. Where are they located?
Akam Ahmedi: Virginia and Maryland.
Joe Fairless: How did you find the 72-unit?
Akam Ahmedi: The 72-unit was off-market. We were reaching out to a bunch of different property managers and owners, and one of the property managers –well, specifically for this property, for the 72-unit– we built a really good rapport with. She had mentioned that the owner was very old, elderly. At the time, that’s all we knew; he was about 97 to 98 years old. We found out what his phone number was; not through her, but through our research online, and come to find out he was a very big player in the market. He actually built the properties to where we happened to be the second owners of that property. He built the shopping center that just sold actually a few months ago. He passed away about three months after we closed that deal, unfortunately. He passed on a pretty large estate of a lot of real estate, retail buildings… What is it called? Elderly homes, nursing homes, apartment communities, and then a bunch of…
Joe Fairless: Assisted living.
Akam Ahmedi: Correct. Single-tenant retail. So he was actually in his own assisted living facility. We didn’t know why he had three different nurses – we thought that was kind of strange – until we were doing our due diligence on the property and one of the employees at the property mentioned that he actually owned and built that assisted living facility, which made even more sense at the time.
Joe Fairless: Yes, yes. You were connecting with property managers and owners, you said, and a property manager told you about him, and then you got his information, his phone number and you called him up. Let’s dissect that some. Tell me about your approach for finding and speaking to the property managers, please.
Akam Ahmedi: That’s a great question. It’s definitely evolved over time. In the beginning, we were heavy with direct-to-seller, talking to professionals in the space, specifically in Virginia and Maryland at the time. Our approach then was, “Let’s reach out to these people that are as close to the owners as possible, or the owner themselves.” In an ideal world, you want to speak to the owner themselves. Everyone else can help you, kind of; sometimes they get in your way, most of the time. At the time, we didn’t know any better, we just reached out to a bunch of people.
The approach was this – we call and we talked to him; for this specific 72-unit, reached out to the property manager, talked to him a little bit about the property, tell them that we’re buying in the area, that we’re investors in the area that we’re buying, that we have the experience… And really just build rapport. You’re not pressing for sale or anything; you just kind of gather information to make them feel comfortable with you. At a certain point, she started feeling comfortable and gave us information, like the man who is 97-98 years old, gave us information that the contractor who happened to be really good friends with the owner at the time was just ripping him apart in terms of what he was charging them.
They were such good friends that the owner in the assisted living facility wasn’t taking the matter seriously in terms of when his employees would say, “Hey, they’re charging a lot of money for each unit turn.” They’re charging like $1,000 to replace some blinds. When we were doing our financial due diligence, it was unbelievable what the contractor was doing. So when we started gathering information, we saw the opportunity. Not only was he 97-98; as you know, Joe, that means… Hopefully, he lives as long as possible, but that estate’s going to pass eventually, that there could be some motivation there to sell; even if it’s not at a discount, at a solid price.
The property was in great condition, believe it or not; it needed unit turns, but the exterior was phenomenal. It just needed a few items and amenities. So it really just came down to understanding “Hey, there may be some motivation and opportunity here after hearing a few pieces of information from the property manager.”
Joe Fairless: You researched property managers initially, or you researched properties initially?
Akam Ahmedi: We researched properties initially, and then reached out to…
Joe Fairless: So you had a spreadsheet of all the properties that you researched, or did you buy that information from somewhere?
Akam Ahmedi: Yes. At the time, it was Reonomy.
Joe Fairless: Oh, sorry. Yeah, got it. So you used Reonomy… And when you initially spoke to that property manager, how do you build rapport with them?
Akam Ahmedi: That’s a really good question. I guess it’s done naturally, but when you reach out, you reach out as someone that is interested in purchasing, interested in helping in any way they can. When you talk to a property manager, you’ve got to be careful, because if they think you’re going to purchase, they think they’re going to lose their job. So you state the elephant in the room and almost immediately, if you’re going to mention that you’re interested in purchasing, you let them know like, “Just so you know, this doesn’t put your job at risk by any means. Usually, when we buy properties, we keep the property manager on board as long as they’re doing great work.”
The following question for me is always, “I’m assuming you do great work, right? That’s probably why you have a job and it’s fully leased.” If they start feeling comfortable, they say yes, and then you continue the conversation. But you have to state that, because otherwise it’ll be a brick wall.
Joe Fairless: Yup, got it. Okay, that’s helpful. And you did not ask for the owner’s contact information, because you said that you found that phone number through a different means. I assume just skip-tracing, or was it just you doing a Google search, or something else?
Akam Ahmedi: You can use software like True People Search, or Fast People Search. Typically, they have really good information. As long as that name is not something like Steve Smith; there are thousands of Steve Smiths. For the most part, it’s pretty easy to find; you put in the location, you put in their first and last name, and you can reverse it. If you have the person’s address but you don’t really know their name, you can reverse their address, it’ll give you their name, and give you the number. Different ways to go about it, but I love using True People Search.
Joe Fairless: That’s what you used in this case?
Akam Ahmedi: This is what we used in this case.
Joe Fairless: Okay. So you got the phone number, you just dialed it up, and the gentleman answers. What do you say?
Akam Ahmedi: My partner actually made the first call to the owner, and for some reason, the owner could barely understand him. I don’t know why. He was old, his hearing was the best. So he passed over the phone to me after making the initial call and getting the conversation started… And it was really just about — with a guy like that, you had to call him in the morning, because he got kind of grumpy past like 12pm. So with a guy like this, you immediately get into it. “Hey, this is who I am. My name is Akam, it’s nice to meet you, sir. The reason I’m calling is that I noticed that you have this property here on 123 ABC Boulevard. I happen to live in the area, I grew up in the area, I own a few properties, and I love what I saw. Are you open to an offer?” A lot of times you get some resistance, because they hear it all the time, people just saying that, but they don’t actually send them an offer. Or they say that and they lowball the hell out of them.
In this case, we let them know we’re always very competitive with our offers. At first, he was just like, “I’ve already been offered 3.8 million. I’m not taking anything less.” We’re like, “Okay, that’s great. Are you open to selling?” His answer was, “Not at this time” at that moment, so we kept following up over the course of weeks.
Joe Fairless: Once a week, every day, every other day? What.
Akam Ahmedi: It depends on the seller. In this case, it was probably twice a week. Give them some space, but not too much space. Twice a week, we kept calling him, and eventually got to the point where he was just very open to it. Some days he wasn’t, some days he was, and all of a sudden, one day he was just like, “I want this much.” So he’s like “Just send in your offer.” So I got his attorney’s information. This is where you have to lead as the, I guess you call it the sales rep, or whatever, the person calling. You have to lead them; it’s something I learned immediately, even in the single-family space. You can’t wait for them. They’re the ones that are waiting for your offer, so you have to lead them.
This is your process; they’re just going to follow you along, your process.
So at that point we took control, got his attorneys information. The first offer we sent, I believe — I don’t even know, I think it was somewhere around like 3.2 or 3.5; automatic rejection. So we came back a week later, offered him 3.8, he accepted. This is where it gets a little shaky… He accepted, and then when we called them back, he was just like, “I’m not selling anymore.” We found out later that his attorney was the guy that was getting in the way.
So what we did was now we followed up even harder. Two or three times a week at a time, and he wasn’t interested, he wasn’t interested. About a month and a half later, we called them, we had it at 3.75, and he was open to it. I remember I was in Tennessee at the time at a mastermind, and I was eating lunch. I was alone but I was like, “Okay, for some reason I know this can get done.” I picked up the phone and I called them, I said something… I was like… What was his name? Louis. “Louis, this is Akam again. How are you?” He’s like, “Yeah, how are you doing?” I said, “Hey, I just want to reach out to you. I would like an answer on if you want to move forward or not. I know some days you do, some days you don’t, but I would just like to let you know that we’ve put in hours of time, a lot of due diligence on this, spent a lot of time researching this property and whatnot, and spent countless dollars with attorneys getting a PSA sent over to you, only for you to back away. I find that extremely disrespectful, but it’s okay. If you don’t want to do business with us, just please let us know. If you do, let us know that too, so that way we can get something done.”
I think that really hit him, because I think it was the disrespect. Him realizing that he wasted not just my time or the team’s time, partner, resources, the people around us, and obviously a few dollars. So I let him be and kind of gave him about four or five days. The next time I called him, he was very happy to talk to me. I just said, “Louis, reach out to your attorney, give him a call. He needs to hear this from you and say you’re ready to do the deal. Can you do that for me?” He said “Yes.” I said, “In about 10 minutes, I’m going to call you back to verify that you did that. Once I call you back, I’ll call him and we’ll get the paperwork started.” Within 30 minutes, PSAs were out, and we were going back and forth on the PSA. Within a few days it was signed.
Break: [00:18:24] – [00:20:20]
Joe Fairless: Wow, there’s a lot going on there. What did it appraise for?
Akam Ahmedi: I think we got it for 3.8 and it appraised for 4.4. We’re about to refinance on that property, Joe. We’re looking at an $8 million valuation.
Joe Fairless: Wow. How much did you put into it?
Akam Ahmedi: We put in about 450k, so 3.8 plus 450l. After all of the costs, were about 4.5 all in.
Joe Fairless: Let’s talk about the 64-unit. How did you find that?
Akam Ahmedi: That’s a good question, let me think… It was my partner that found that. Interestingly enough, that was also a property manager, believe it or not.
Joe Fairless: A different one?
Akam Ahmedi: A different one. This one’s in Maryland, right by Ocean City, Maryland. I’m sure a lot of people are familiar with that area.
Joe Fairless: I’ve been there.
Akam Ahmedi: In your younger years, I’m assuming.
Joe Fairless: It’s actually for work, so it wasn’t as fun as one might imagine.
Akam Ahmedi: Right. Good beaches, though; great beaches there. He reached out to what he thought was the owner’s number, my partner, but it was actually the property manager and this woman…
Joe Fairless: How did he get the number to begin with, where he thought it was the owner?
Akam Ahmedi: This is also from Reonomy. In this case, he called thinking it was the owner; it was not the owner, it was the property manager. And my partner and she talked for a good hour and a half. I remember I was leaving the room when he first initially called her. Then I come back again after getting some food and he’s still talking to this lady. I remember he puts it on mute and he’s like, “This is something hot, hot.” [laughter] So I know the look in his eyes, and he’s excited. I’m just like, “Okay, cool.”
So that deal, they talked, they built amazing rapport, and between that conversation and over the next two weeks, they were not really going back and forth, they were just keeping in touch. She was letting him know that she was going to let the owners know, “Hey, that you’re interested in buying, that you’re a serious buyer, and see what they say.” Believe it or not, they were all about it; they wanted to sell. It was their time. There were four partners, it seemed like two of them were active and two of them were passive. That’s what it seemed like.
Joe Fairless: Lazy.
Akam Ahmedi: Correct, something like that. I don’t know what kind of stuff was going on.
Joe Fairless: Probably supposed to be active, but weren’t doing their share, and the other two partners probably wanted to get out of there.
Akam Ahmedi: The other two partners wanted to get out of there, but I’ll be honest, even the ones that weren’t doing their share weren’t doing much. [laughter] These guys were a classic mom-and-pop; they’re like 60 years old, but they’re not your classic older people. They were just all over the place. They had a lot of energy, all over the place. [unintelligible [00:23:00].16] and then we’ll tell you what happened in due diligence.” These guys were definitely comedians, they were really funny to be around.
But my partner built a great rapport with the property manager, and the property manager put in a great word. She was sick and tired of always trying to do improvements to the property and the owners just would not accept it. I think Ace really hooked her with that part. He was saying how in our group, we let the property managers speak freely, give us a lot of feedback, and we like to implement things and improvements to make the communities better. I think that stuck with her, so she reached out to the owners, and then finally made the connection to Ace. We got down to the LOI and it was accepted for 4.5. At this point, the LOI was based off of information they’d given us, even rent numbers and NOI.
Joe Fairless: I’m sure it’s all factually true.
Akam Ahmedi: Almost. [laughter] So once we get the LOI, we say “We’ll get you to PSA, but we need to see the financials first before we put this in official writing.” So they sent us the financials; the NOI was like 100,000 less than what they said. 100,000 to 140,000 less than what they said. At this point, my partner wasn’t as excited, because they were stuck on this 4.5 million number… It didn’t make sense at 4.5; we were buying like at a 3.3 cap in like a 6.5 cap market. As we both know, Joe, sometimes you don’t always buy off a cap, because you realize that there are so many improvements that can be made from a rent perspective, or even on the expense side. But in this case, it didn’t make any sense. So from there, that’s when I took over. I saw that he kind of lost that excitement, and he felt like his time was wasted.
So over the next few weeks I was talking to them. The main guy that I was speaking to, I talked to his partners every time he spoke to me. From that point on, Joe, I remember one day I was talking to him, I think his name was Joe too, actually. We were in Florida at this time, in Fort Lauderdale and I gave him a call, we had set up a meeting with him and his other active partner. I had told him something like, “Hey, Joe, realistically, we put an offer of 4.5 on a table based off of the information you gave us. And then when you gave us actual financials, it was way off. $120,000 off. We were originally buying at around a 5.5 cap anyways, but now we’re buying it at 3.5. No one in this world will buy that property for a 3.5 cap.” I was like, “If you don’t want to do that deal with us, that’s fine. But we’re going to have to be at,” I believe I said 3.4 million. It was 3.4. And he was just like “Oh, that’s low. There’s no way they’re ever going to accept that.” I was like, “Well, look, the reality is we’re not paying 4.5, and no one else will. And I don’t say that disrespectfully. I’m just telling you that it doesn’t make any sense for anyone.” He said, “Okay, we’ll let you know.” And he counters us, I think a day or two later after talking to partners, at 3.65. We thought about it for a day, but then we realized, “Wait a minute, this is a great deal at 3.65.” So we did the deal, and then due diligence and all that started.
Joe Fairless: How long from start to finish did it take to get a signed contract for the 72-unit? The same question for the 64-unit, approximately.
Akam Ahmedi: From the day we spoke to the seller, initial contact?
Joe Fairless: The initial contact to signed PSA, for both deals.
Akam Ahmedi: I like that question a lot. I feel like a lot of people think this happens so quick. This is not a single-family. The first deal, the 72-unit was three months, 90 days; I believe it was May to August. And then the 64 – wow, the 64 had to be five months. It was October to March or April.
Joe Fairless: Thanks for sharing that. And then really quick – anything in the due diligence that you want to mention? It seemed like there was something wacky going on during due diligence.
Akam Ahmedi: Yeah, you could tell it was wacky. Once you’re doing due diligence, there’s a physical and financial side. We were seeing the physical, we knew it needed some love, really just needed to turn it into a community more than anything. That project – we’re still spending, about 900,000 in CapEx. During due diligence, these were the type of guys, you could tell, that they will lie just about almost everything. You could tell, especially when you did your research and you looked over everything. One of the guys — you know, we would throw out ideas, “Hey, why didn’t you do this at the property? Why haven’t you done that to the property? X, Y, and Z?” And his thing was, “Oh, it sounds like a great idea. Yeah, do it, do it.” We asked him once — I believe my partner asked him, he said, “Do you know how much that would cost?” He said, “No, it doesn’t matter. It’s going to add plenty of value.” So you could tell these were mom-and-pop, they didn’t really know what they were doing, if they just had money, they threw it into something. For them, they got extremely lucky. I don’t want to call it lucky, but they did great on that property. They sold it for 3.6, but they picked it up, I believe in 2005, for I think 700 grand. So they did really well for themselves; and they were crushing it from cash flows, even though it was so inefficient, just because their basis was so low.
Joe Fairless: Yup. 102-unit, really quick, like 30 seconds or less – how did you find it?
Akam Ahmedi: Two-year follow-up, that one was direct-to-seller. He was a psychiatrist, he and his wife; his wife was the property manager of the property. She was 83, he was 84; they were going to sell it during COVID, but then they wanted to travel and she was like, “I don’t want to just sit at home with my husband.” But it was direct to seller, True People Search, through Reonomy. That was a two-year follow up, Joe. That was, I think, May of 2019 was the initial contact, and we didn’t get it under contract until June or July of last year.
Joe Fairless: Wow. Well deserved. Nice work on that. I’m glad that you talked about how long it took, and the effort, and the steps that you and Ace took to build rapport and to go from initial contact to under contract. I didn’t even ask how long to close, but just three months from initial contact to PSA being executed on the first deal, five months on the second deal, and two years on the third deal. But man, isn’t it worth it for just that effort? The amount of money that is made as a result of those follow-ups was incredible. Taking a step back, what is your best real estate investing advice ever?
Akam Ahmedi: If the numbers work, do the deal. Don’t always look for the home run. If it’s a really good deal for you and your investors, or just you, take the deal. That’s how home runs are made; a lot of times you don’t know until you do the deal.
Joe Fairless: We’re going to do a lightning round. Are you ready for the Best Ever lightning round?
Akam Ahmedi: Always.
Joe Fairless: What deal have you lost the most amount of money on, and how much was it?
Akam Ahmedi: What’s that city in Texas?
Joe Fairless: Lots of them.
Akam Ahmedi: It’s oil.
Joe Fairless: Forth Worth? Dallas?
Akam Ahmedi: No, it’s not a big city.
Joe Fairless: Lubbock? Amarillo?
Akam Ahmedi: It’s San something. It’s not San Antonio, it’s San something.
Joe Fairless: San Angelo, San Marcos?
Akam Ahmedi: San Angelo, thank you. San Angelo, a 100-unit asset, lost 40 grand on it. But we didn’t close on a deal because we were putting our investors at risk. We did not want to do that, so we took the loss on the earnest money.
Joe Fairless: If given the same opportunity, what would you do differently so you did not lose the money?
Akam Ahmedi: Would have taken control with our team members and vetted the deal the last day of due diligence.
Joe Fairless: What deal have you made the most amount of money on, and how much?
Akam Ahmedi: Single-family side, about 350k; multifamily side, it’s going to be the 72-unit here soon. It’s going to cash a check of about 300,000 from refinance proceeds, and then once it sells, it’ll probably make a million each for myself and my partner.
Joe Fairless: Best Ever way you like to get back to the community.
Akam Ahmedi: Helping others. What I mean by that is I do donate money to charities, but more specifically, when I’m physically interacting with individuals and helping them with knowledge and giving them feedback from my experience. Right now, I coach two people, real estate, absolutely for free. We just get on a weekly Zoom call. I like to do that, I feel like I could make my most impact there as of right now.
Joe Fairless: How can the Best Ever listeners learn more about what you’re doing?
Akam Ahmedi: That’s a great question. Just connect with me on LinkedIn, and connect with me on Instagram, or TikTok, @akinvest.
Joe Fairless: Akam, thank you so much for being on the show. What an enlightening conversation about how the perseverance is required to get deals done, but then also tactically how to make that happen. Thanks for being on the show. I hope you have a Best Ever day and talk to you again soon.
Akam Ahmedi: Thank you, Joe. Hope you have a great day, too. Thanks for having me on the show.
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