July 20, 2021

JF2513: The Urban Development Framework with Franklin Spees

Franklin Spees wasn’t new to the property management game when he and his wife decided to start a company of their own soon out of college. Fast forward to today, and he’s working on developing 74 2,000 square-foot commercial units. Tune in to learn about the 4-step process to effective condo conversions, how to successfully pre-lease before construction is even completed, and why land ownership may be your next business venture.


Franklin Spees Real Estate Background:

  • CA licensed broker, attorney, consultant, syndicator, and property manager
  • Currently VP and Partner of a law firm
  • Owns a small portfolio of single families, small multifamily with a few passive LP positions in multifamily syndications
  • 20+ years experience
  • Based in Fresno, CA
  • Say hi to him at: www.NeighborhoodREI.com
  • Best Ever Book: Multifamily Millions & The 4-Hour Workweek


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Ash Patel: Hello, Best Ever listeners. Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Ash Patel and with our guest today, Franklin Spees. Franklin is joining us from Fresno, California. He has over 20 years of experience and is a licensed broker, attorney, consultant, syndicator, and a property manager. Franklin is the Vice President and partner of a law firm and owns a portfolio of single-family, small multifamilies and is a passive investor in multifamily syndications.

Franklin, thank you for joining us, and how are you today?

Franklin Spees: Thank you, Ash. I’m doing well. Thanks for having me.

Ash Patel: Great. Before we get started, can you tell us a little bit more about your background and what you’re focused on now?

Franklin Spees: Yeah. So I started in real estate back in — I think what really got me going was even going back to being an RA in college, when I worked for a property management company as an RA; that was sort of my initial exposure. Then I moved down to San Diego in grad school, I went to law school, my wife went and got her master’s in San Diego. And they decided to buy an apartment complex and asked us if we wanted to manage it after we just got married. So that was a 16-unit complex in San Diego. And that really got us thinking about real estate specifically. We started a management company, began managing some other properties for others. That actually took me into doing some condo conversions, co-founded a company called Condo Conversionsat the time, and we probably did 75 entitlements of apartment buildings back when that was hot. And that market sort of dried up and I moved over to actually working at a law firm, a land use and entitlement law firm in Escondido for about a year. I quickly realized I didn’t want to sit behind a desk for the rest of my life. I got my broker’s license, went and started doing some land use entitlements for a cell phone carrier. It was Cingular back in the day. And that then led me to doing some entitlement work and some development for a large retailer. So it was an architectural and entitlement firm in LA, working with Home Depot’s and Walmart’s in the Western states, doing some site development and pre-development applications at cities and whatnot.

And full circle, came back to Fresno with now a wife and a few kids and worked as an urban planner in the city of Fresno; processing on the other side of the counter – it gave me a lot of good experience to see the full circle of development and real estate in general. I worked on some land use, updated the general plan and zoning ordinance at that time.

Then stepped out, went back into the private practice of law about a fraction of my time. Again, that’s probably the highest tax dollar that I earned; very active, being an attorney. As I mentioned, I own a property management company. We’ve grown that to about 600 doors. I also do my own transactions, I do about a dozen transactions for other investors, and now I’m into real estate syndications and doing a little bit of everything.

Ash Patel: I’m speechless, and I don’t know where to start, other than – I’m going to make a comment. For any of you Class C minus landlords that you think you have it hard, try being the ultimate property manager, an RA for college students.

Franklin Spees: Yeah, you are not kidding.

Ah Patel: Let’s start right at the top—condo conversions. Now, that seems like a really appealing area, where you take an apartment building and essentially condo-ize it.

Franklin Spees: Yeah, it was great at the time. And actually, as we all know, I’m in California, and the affordable housing – they call it a crisis, and in some respect, it is very real. In urban areas, big hot markets, I think at that time were Florida and San Diego, areas of Florida and San Diego. And so there was a need for affordable housing, and you go through the process with a tentative tract map using a land surveyor to create an association through the state, and then you can essentially sell those off individually. And it was a great opportunity for folks to buy something in the market, where you’re buying a two-bedroom apartment that is now a condo; they, otherwise, wouldn’t have been able to get into the market. So there’s a lot of pros and cons with it. The city really tightened up and they were worried about all the apartment housing stock going away and being converted to ownership. But yes, it was a great opportunity at that time.

Ash Patel: Why do you say, at that time? Why can’t you replicate that today in another city who doesn’t have stipulations against it? Because it seems like a really great way to add value.

Franklin Spees: Yeah, it definitely is. Again, I think that some cities were very favorable towards it, some cities would cap it. You also had some apartments that are better situated to be made condos for ownership, and some that aren’t. And so sometimes maybe it was forced in some situations when — usually, when you have a Condo Association, there are some amenities, whether that be storage or common pool area, barbecue and things like that. So cities really were reluctant to just convert everything that they had, because an apartment owner could go in and buy anything from a sixplex to 50 units and flip it into condos, and then sell individually, and then the developer’s gone, and now you’ve got these tenants that need to work together with this association that was hopefully funded well, with a reserve study.

So when done right, it can be very great. But I think there’s also a balance, we need apartments, we need affordable housing, we need condos and we need single families and all the way up. So we need the whole spectrum of housing.

Ash Patel: Franklin, what about doing that with an office building, small to mid-rise office, selling those off as condo units?

Franklin Spees: Yep. And I was involved in less of those, but even industrial spaces as well. So the concept of fractional ownership essentially is very attractive, can create opportunities for those who instead of renting something small for the rest of their life, whether it be your house, your primary residence, an office condo, an industrial condo, lots of different things – it does provide ownership opportunity for folks. So yeah, I was a part of that, primarily residential, but saw it in commercial and industrial as well.

Ash Patel: And another really alluring area is the cellphone towers that you were involved in.

Franklin Spees: Yeah, so this was really my first introduction into really entitling land. So I would essentially go out with a radio frequency engineer and we’d be looking for areas that would make sense to add coverage for these various carriers. And I’m sure probably the tech has changed now, and eventually, Elon’s taken to satellite cellular service, whatever that looks like… But at the time, it was really interacting — you’d go out to a farm or you go to a church and you say, “Hey, I’d like to lease this area, and we’re going to put this fake tree or fake rock or ugly antenna on your property and try to make it work” and they could generate some income from it. So that had an appeal for folks, and that’s what I did at that time.

Ash Patel: Franklin, I’ve read on a lot of forums where people are buying property, and there’s a cell phone tower on there with a long-term lease. Any advice to those people? Is that a positive? A negative?

Franklin Spees: I think it can be a positive. I think where it’s located is important. I think aesthetically, it can be unattractive. People were concerned that it could cause cancer or some other health problems. But I don’t believe the science has panned out on that. It’s more of an aesthetic issue and it takes a significant little footprint. So you often you’ll see it in commercial buildings or you’ll see it on churches or industrial buildings… It’s not very appropriate in a residential interface.

Ash Patel: Interesting, good to know. And then you moved on to entitling land for retailers. What was that like?

Franklin Spees: I was working in urban areas in LA, Inland Empire, and had a project in Hawaii. But it was during a time when the Walmarts and Home Depots were expanding, and just as they were starting to constrict a little bit their expansion domestically, but it was essentially going out and working with the brokers who would identify properties for these large retailers, and then they would need to lay out a site. So you’d work with the developer, the broker and then lay out a site plan, [unintelligible [00:09:08].07] with all the truck movements and traffic access, and then the pads, and then your major anchor tenant.

So my direct client was Home Depot or Walmart, and you would go in and you’d lay it out. And then once it’s been internally approved, you take it to the city and you negotiate the whole process of entitlement, the general plan, land use and the zoning, and then all the restrictions. And then as you can imagine, all the adjacency issues, too. Some people are rolling out the red carpet for Walmart, and other people are bringing out the protesters. So that was quite an experience, working in that regard. But it was a great experience introducing me to commercial real estate and seeing the timeline and the value. And I think at the time Home Depots were generating on average in those types of areas about a million dollars a week. So every week that you delayed in your entitlement process, you felt the pressure of, “That’s $1 million essentially, that is gross profit that’s lost by the store.” So it’s a highly intense environment.

Break: [10:05] to [12:06]

Ash Patel: Franklin, when you say “entitlement”, what does that mean?

Franklin Spees: The simplistic way to look at it is just a piece of property that is within a municipality, it needs a certain level of approval. So you’ve got zoning and you’ve got different areas within your city where you can allow certain types of uses. And it used to be that you throw all your residential in one area, industrial in another area, commercial over there, and you divide it all the uses. Well, now the cities are trying to blend some of those back together, because it’s less friendly to transit in our environment, and so you see a lot of mixing of uses. But essentially, when you entitle land, you are basically getting an approval, going through a process through the planning department and working with all the city departments to approve a property for a specific type of use. And some of those are a by-right use with a site plan review, some of those are conditionally approved for the conditional use permit, you hear that term CUP… So it really is receiving local approval for an intended use that you intend to do on the property, whether that be adaptively reusing an existing building, or building new construction.

Ash Patel: Thank you for that. So now you’ve seen a lot of landowners get very wealthy through cell phone towers, retail, condo conversions… Are you enticed to try to find land that you can do the same thing on?

Franklin Spees: I mentioned that I’m on my fifth real estate syndication, and the first four of those were value-add multifamily; we did an additional portfolio three properties that were 450 units in Visalia, Tulare and Kingsburg. Then did another 300 units in Reno last October… But those were very much the vanilla model of adding value through inserting capital and raising rents over a period of time, and a capital event – either refi, cash out or sale of the property.

Right now, my fifth syndication is actually in the city of Madeira. We’ve located a 16-acre piece of property, it’s vacant land, and it is currently being entitled to build multi-tenant light industrial spaces. So we have 74 2,000 square foot bays, each with its own yard and roll-up door, and essentially taking that land and building those out over about a 12 month construction period, to then fill that and then sell that within a 30-month period. That’s really what I’m involved in right now, and that’s sort of a pivot from multifamily in California, specifically in the Western states, where all of your listeners will know that it’s extremely competitive to find those value-add deals that were somewhat readily available for 4-5 years ago. It’s very competitive now, all over the country. Everybody that I know is looking in every state; you used to really specialize in one particular Geography. Now, you’re having to look out all over the country for these hot areas where you can find these large value-add deals.

So all that to say is I’m still very much interested in residential value-add deals, but the group that I’ve partnered with at the moment, which is Warehouse Partners, which you can google and find that online, we’re syndicating this multi-tenant light industrial, and the demand for that right now is extremely high. I think the industrial vacancy rate in California is below 3% right now, and specifically in Madeira I think it’s less than 1%.

And then you niche down into these multi-tenant spaces, which will be for lease… But the next phase of it actually might be, as we talked about before, we might put a final map on that and provide those condos where folks could come in and buy those units as well. So there is an extreme demand for light industrial space up and down California right now.

Ash Patel: Can we dive into that project?

Franklin Spees: Absolutely.

Ash Patel: So you said 74 2000 square feet units.

Franklin Spees: That’s it.

Ash Patel: So are these bay doors where you could drive in?

Franklin Spees: That’s exactly right. So oftentimes, you think metal building and you drive on the freeway, and you see a kind of a beat-up metal building that looks rundown with a roll-up door – it is that in some respect, but it will be new construction. And working with the city, it’s actually in a really decent part of town, just West of the freeway, near a regional park and a fire station… But essentially, it will have full security cameras, lights, it’ll have an automated gate, 24-hour access, and when you come into it, you really see these four buildings that are very linear. And exactly as you described, they are 2000 square feet, where you’ll see a roll-up door, it’s evaporative cooled on the interior, and then it’s got a little shoebox office about eight by 10 that has its own split system, AC. And then you’ve got a backyard, a gated yard.

So it really is catered towards the Small Business contractors, the cabinet guy, the pest control guy, the pool guy, the window tinting guy… And we really have a tight program that doesn’t allow for certain incompatible uses, such as automotive uses, where you’re changing oil or doing mechanic work, or cannabis uses. We also don’t allow churches and athletic gyms, just because of the parking toll that that can take.

So really, the group that I’m working with has got a good feel for exactly the profile of tenant that works well in this and the demand is there. So we’re really looking forward to taking a million-dollar piece of dirt, adding $16 million in construction, and about a five and a half cap in 30 months, we’re projecting the project’s going to be valued at $21 million to $22 million.

Ash Patel: So building 74 of these units seems really ambitious… Are you doing anything to line up tenants pre-build?

Franklin Spees: It’s a great question, and that actually hits on one of the challenges as it relates to lending. If you don’t find a lender that knows this particular area, it becomes very difficult, because a lender really wants to see, do you have leases lined up? Typically they’re looking for your 5-10 year leases, long-term, tenants, triple net. This is very different in that the profile of the tenant we’re looking for—if we were to put a sign out there today, they are not thinking, “Hey, in 30 months, I’m going to come in and sign a 12 or 24-month lease.” These are small businesses that are moving up literally out of their garage sometimes, or sometimes they’re scaling down from 5,000 to 10,000 to 15,000 square foot building that is oversized for them that they’ve kind of had to make work. You can also take these units and combine them together. So you could take one 2,000 bay and put it next to a two. And sometimes you’ll go up to three of them. And you just punch a hole in between them in the demising wall and use a forklift, which is big enough for access between the three. So you can move up, you can move down… It’s a very flexible space for that specific type of tenant profile.

Ash Patel: Yeah, I know a lot of HVAC tenants, cabinet makers that literally are outgrowing their space. And you’re right, it’s, “I need something now.”

Franklin Spees: That’s exactly right. You also have a lot of last-mile delivery; with e-commerce, as we know, there were lots of winners and losers as COVID hit, but even before COVID you’ve got e-commerce that’s just taking off. And there’s a lot of demand for this micro-warehousing, logistical space spread out in order to have that merchandise and that ability to get that merchandise out very competitively within one or two days.

Ash Patel: So, Franklin, how does that sit with your lenders when you tell them that these are all people that we’re going to get last minute, but don’t worry, we’ll fill it up?

Franklin Spees: Essentially, what we’re going to do is we project that at the moment that we are done with construction – because really the construction period is not that complicated, right? We’ve got a simplistic way of looking at it; you’ve got a concrete slab and you’ve got a prefabricated metal building that needs to go up. And so construction will take about 12 months, and there are four different buildings. So as soon as construction begins, there’ll be a sign up and we figure that we will attract and pre-lease about 25% of the units.

And then once we actually open, so that will be 25% within our financial model, within our projections for our investors, because we’re structured as a 506(c) fund, that we are projecting that is only going to take us about a lease a week or week and a half through the remaining 30 month period to fill it up. So that’s really the plan, is to have it 25% pre-leased and then knowing that we can lease it on average through the remainder of the period, to still hit those projections and be able to seller refi at month 30.

So getting a lender that’s on board that understands industrial space… We’re not shopping the large lenders, it’s really — we’ve looked at private money, we’ve looked at smaller community banks, but these smaller community commercial banks, we’ve been very encouraged for their terms and how welcoming they are once they really understand the business model. And again, looking for those that already have some familiarity in the space.

Break: [20:58] to [23:05]

Ash Patel: Franklin, what’s the process to transition these two condos?

Franklin Spees: First phase that we’re doing will not be condos; the second phase, or even successive projects – because the goal is to place multiple of these up and down the state and maybe even Western states. But essentially, if you have a building that you’re building new construction, the goal would be at the same time to place a map on that property, so you really provide the ability to have individual parcels, even though you may at lease them as if they were rental spaces on the front end with the ability, you’re preserving the right. Once you put that map in place, whether you’re mapping an existing building or you’re putting the map on at the same time — so right now we need a site plan review through the city in order to build this first phase.

If we wanted to, we could also concurrently file a tentative tract map and finalize that map which would be in perpetuity that could sit on that property. So it’d be entitled as site plan review for leasing it, but you’d also have in the background, on that property, you’d have the map that would allow you if you decided in the future, you could then go through the process through the state to do a reserve study and create an association and begin selling those off individually.

Ash Patel: And once you build it, what’s the process of reverting it to condos, if you build it as normal rentals?

Franklin Spees: Well, if you had the map in place, then again, it would be just as I said, is that you’d go through the state and there’s essentially an approval process and there’s a reserve study that needs to be put together… Essentially, if you’re putting people in a position to be able to buy those units, and let’s say, the developer is then exiting, well, there needs to be a plan in place. When I say reserve study, just like a typical Association in the residential world, you need to be able to anticipate that useful life of all the different common area amenities and things that will be cared for by the association, from paving to roofs and exteriors to the gate. So there needs to be some sort of initial reserve amount and then everybody needs to pay continually. And then there’s some sort of organized body, an association that would have a board and the group would make decisions. But that would really provide the ability for individuals to begin buying their unit. And again, they would have a piece of real estate and they’d be essentially putting some money back in their pocket, as opposed to paying it out in a lease to somebody else, and then they could sell that for value as well.

Ash Patel: And I would hope that an HOA of business owners would be much better run than a residential HOA, hopefully.

Franklin Spees: Boy, I would have to think that yes. I mean, I think we’ve all had our experiences with residential HOAs and that can be challenging.

Ash Patel: Yeah. So now you are an urban planner as well.

Franklin Spees: Well, I did work for the city for about six years as a planner, and that was essentially receiving projects that come into the city, people are building; people are expanding, whether it’s a subdivision, a commercial shopping center, or they’re just adding a garage. The whole variety of things that you need to go to the city for in order to build, construct or change use. So I did that. And one of the things that allowed me to do that really was having the law degree and the previous real estate experience.

They were looking for somebody that was coming from the private sector to come and add that different perspective. And really, one of the components of my role was, I hosted a meeting for any developer that would come in – we call it the Development Partnership Center, where I would have a roundtable of folks where you’d have a representative from planning, Public Works, public utilities, PD, fire, Valley Air, and have everybody come around the table, and a developer walks in and says, “Hey, I’d like to do this subdivision. I’ve got these preliminary plans.” And you get comments from everybody around the room, before they spend the money on the application. Before they get really down into the details, they need to know; is there a major sewer extension that needs to occur that’s going to blow the budget? Where are the hydrant? Where are the public infrastructure needs? And what are the development impact fees? All those types of things that developers are just really hungry for at the beginning in order to project out their budget. So it was very helpful for developers to be able to have sort of a one-stop shop, a peek behind the curtain before they really go all-in on a project, acquiring the properties, spending all the dollars to begin developing it. And then finding a surprise later down the road. That’s the last thing that developers want to hear.

Ash Patel: That is a great strategy. I want to circle back on your light industrial development. From your investor standpoint, what are the expected returns?

Franklin Spees: Great question. And I would say what we are projecting as our minimum investments right now, we’re looking at about a 1.57 equity multiplier for the LPs. And the reason I say right now is that for some of your listeners, many of which are probably much more familiar with the structure than I am, but this being my fifth, I’ve seen several different types of structures. So the way this one is structured is it’s a limited partnership, and it’s a reg D 506 (c), which means we can publicly solicit the property, all of the investors are accredited, it’s $100,000 minimum investment… And when folks come in, they can anticipate receiving a return.

But what’s interesting – this is unique for me, at least, in that usually in a value add deal, you come in and you say the property’s 97% occupied, and you’re going to go in and put $12,000 to $15,000 of each door and eventually turn it over, but you’re never going to wipe everybody out. So you’re always going to have income, the property will always cash flow during that period of time.

Let’s say you had a 40% attrition where the tenants are naturally moving out, and then you’re moving some around, and eventually, in 12-24 months, you can turn over a 300 unit building without dipping much below 95%, maybe 90% occupancy.

With here, we start with dirt. As we’ve gotten investors, for us, that’s about a $6 million or $7 million raise. So the day we make that capital call, people are anticipating a return, but there is no income on the property obviously. So what we do is we begin a pref. So we’ve got a 10% pref that begins day one at the capital call, that will just accrue going forward. And then once we begin filling the property, we’ll eventually begin to cash flow. And as the waterfall works, that money that comes in that’s positive cash flow will flow back to fill up that 10% pref for all the investors. And then on that capital event, when the property is sold, once that 10% profit is full, then there’s a split essentially with the investors, and then on the backend disposition, and there’s a split with the investors as well as the proceeds.

So all the investors get all their money back, they get all their pref prior to the GP actually taking any participation in the split, in the upside as they say.

Ash Patel: That’s an incredibly fair way to do things for your investors. Thanks for sharing that.

Franklin Spees: Yeah, absolutely.

Ash Patel: Franklin, what is your best real estate investing advice ever?

Franklin Spees: I was thinking about this listening to some of your other podcasts… And I would say, become an expert in one particular area. Well, I didn’t take that approach. I went out and I became a real estate attorney first, then I became a real estate broker and then I started doing land use entitlements. And I started condo conversions and property management and real estate transactions and getting into syndications… And I really sort of wanted to get experience in all areas of real estate, and having enough expertise in those areas that it really synergizes and made me better in each of those areas for having my foot in all those areas.

So I would say, what’s beneficial for me now is that when I approach somebody and say, “Hey, I see your deal, I see what you’re doing. I’d like to come in and partner with you.” Well, they look at me and they say, “Okay, I see the value that you can bring to our partnership, whether it be raising capital, whether it be coming in and helping with the entitlements through the city, whether it be helping with the transaction or just providing general legal advice.” I have the ability to wear all these different hats and just provide some expertise.

So I would say to your listeners that the best thing you can do is first focus on the value that you can bring, and then the opportunities as you’re going out and looking for those relationships, the doors just open. I think that would probably be my best advice.

Ash Patel: I love that advice and I wholeheartedly agree with you. Franklin, are you ready for the lightning round?

Franklin Spees: I am.

Ash Patel: Let’s go. What’s the best ever book you’ve recently read?

Franklin Spees: Okay, I read a book not too long ago… It’s called Multi-Family Millions by David Lindahl. And everything in the book that I thought was the best advice or actually stuck with me — but it was this concept that this guy was using that’s just this creative approach to investing and how to control assets with as little personal capital as possible in it, so that you could do multiple. But just the way he approached every deal with the amount of creativity, it really got me thinking about looking at every deal creatively, from financing to adaptively reusing, to the group that you’re involved with. So that got me going.

And then the other one I’ll say that it’s really a non-real estate book was The 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss. Again, getting my mind, stepping out of the traditional structures of you go to school to be a lawyer and then you’re a lawyer for 40 years. You get your real estate license, and you go in and you do transactions. It just kind of blew the doors off for me and said, “Hey, start a business, use these tools, high tech, and how to scale it, and the 80/20 rule and all that stuff.” So those couple of books had a real impact on my career.

Ash Patel: Yeah, it seems like they’ve served you very well. Franklin, what’s the best ever way you like to give back?

Franklin Spees: Well, I sit on a couple of boards. One at the local Habitat for Humanity. I’m on the advisory council. I really like that organization a lot. And of course, it’s got lots of real estate embedded in it, it’s a real estate company. I also sit on a board called Hope Now for Youth in Fresno, which is really targeting 16-24-year-old young males who are involved in gangs, and grabbing those guys literally off the street to say, “Hey, do you want a job?” partnering them with a caring relationship, sharing with them Christ principles and watching their lives transform. And that has been a very rewarding opportunity for me to serve on that board for about five years now.

Ash Patel: That is amazing. Franklin, how can the Best Ever listeners reach out to you?

Franklin Spees: I’d say the best way is probably LinkedIn. I mentioned the Warehouse Partners website, which you can google, but if you search my name, Franklin Spees on LinkedIn, you can find me. It’s also under Neighborhood REI. And I’m also on BiggerPockets and all the major places. I’d love to connect with anybody out there who has questions about syndications, starting a property management company or just talking real estate in general.

I’m actually going to be the Best Ever Conference in February, I’m looking forward to that. I just jumped on a mastermind with about seven other people. That’s been great.

Ash Patel: That’s great. Franklin, thank you very much for sharing a lot of your experience with us, from beginning out as an RA and going into doing your own deals and syndicating, and then pivoting into light industrial. We barely touched on the things that you’ve done, and we’d love to have you back on the show to deep dive into a couple of these areas if you’re okay with that. But thank you for sharing this incredible advice with us. Best Ever listeners, thank you for joining us, have a best ever day.

Franklin Spees: Thank you, Ash.

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