In this episode of Best of the Best Ever, we hear three perspectives on growing your website traffic and conversion rates from Neil Patel, Chris Dayley, and Melissa Johnson. Neil focuses on increasing traffic and conversions by SEO, keyword best practices, and avoiding the #1 mistake people make when building a website. Chris discusses what his company looks for in a strong website and how to minimize your resistance factors to increase your conversions. Lastly, Melissa discusses how she creates and promotes content to drive traffic to her website.
Neil Patel Background:
- Marketing and online expert
- Top Influencer on the Web (Wall Street Journal)
- Top 10 Online Marketer (Forbes)
- 100 Most Brilliant Companies in the World (Entrepreneur Magazine)
- Top 100 Entrepreneur (President Obama)
Chris Dayley Background:
- VP of site testing and optimization at Disruptive Advertising
- Started his agency, Dayley Conversion in 2014 that merged with Disruptive Advertising
- Helps businesses learn what users want on their website, through psychology based testing, and analytics
Melissa Johnson Background:
- Full time real estate investor, and the Co-Founder of San Antonio InvestHer meetup group
- 17 years of real estate experience
- She has completed over 1000 flips, and has a portfolio of rental properties and notes
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Theo Hicks: Hello Best Ever listeners. Welcome to the Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever Show. I’m Theo Hicks and I’m back with three more clips from three previous Best Ever guests. The topic today is how to get more traffic and conversions to your website. Whether you’re trying to use your website to find more deals, raise more money, or accomplish some other tasks, we’ve got three experts here today to provide you with their Best Ever advice.
The first one comes from Neil Patel. You probably have heard that name before. A very popular marketer recognized by all sorts of publications, The Wall Street Journal, presidents, and The United Nations. He gives us tips on how to drive more traffic to our websites and increase conversions. Here’s what Neil had to say.
Joe Fairless: Should we be focused more on the conversion of that traffic? So getting emails? Or should we be more focused on driving the traffic to the website, if we had to pick?
Neil Patel: It depends. If you don’t have a ton of traffic, then you should focus on traffic. If you have a lot of traffic, then focus on the conversion.
Joe Fairless: What’s a ton?
Neil Patel: I usually say if you’re under 10,000, focus on traffic, if you’re over 10,000, focus more on conversion. Unless you’re in a B2B segment in which each customer is worth hundreds and thousands or millions of dollars, the moment you’re above 3,000 visitors, focus on conversion.
Joe Fairless: When you say 10,000, is that unique visitors a month?
Neil Patel: Correct.
Joe Fairless: Okay, 10,000 unique visitors a month. Alright, so under 10,000 unique visitors a month focus on traffic, over then focus on conversion. Let’s say we’re at around 5,000 unique visitors a month? What are some ways that we could increase that?
Neil Patel: One of the simplest ways is to go look at all the articles that you have written, or podcasts, or videos that you have produced, go put in competitor ones or ones that are similar, you can Google to find them, and put that URL into search.twitter.com. You’ll see everyone else who shared it, and message them and try to get them to share yours. They have already shared similar content, why won’t they share yours? Little things like that work extremely well, and if you do those over time, you’ll get more social shares, you’ll get more readers, more repeat visitors, and your overall traffic will go up.
Joe Fairless: So kind of reverse-engineering the process?
Neil Patel: Correct.
Joe Fairless: You’re obviously over 10,000 per month. Are you more focused on conversion? If so, how do you optimize that?
Neil Patel: I’m focused on more so traffic than conversion. But yeah, I do both. The way I drive conversions is I use tools like Hello Bar that do like email pop-ups, sliders, modals. I also do things like running A/B tests, I do use recordings to see mouse movements where people are getting stuck, I look at analytics… But it’s all about just figuring out where people are getting stuck to see where the drop off is within your funnel. That’s the area you probably want to focus on first.
Joe Fairless: Where do you get most of your traffic to your website? Where’s it coming from?
Neil Patel: Google.
Joe Fairless: And then what are the terms? I was reading throught your website…
Neil Patel: Are you in the US?
Joe Fairless: Yeah, I’m in the US.
Neil Patel: Online marketing, SEO, internet marketing, terms like that.
Joe Fairless: How did you get the ranking for online marketing? Because obviously, that’s a top one that I’m sure you’ve got a lot of competition for.
Neil Patel: More detailed and better content. From there, reaching out to everyone who shared all the other online marketing articles on Twitter and asking them to share mine. And then cross-linking my own posts. Anytime I reference online marketing, I link to that main “Cornerstone Content” which would be that guide on online marketing.
Joe Fairless: Will you say the cross-linking one, but say it slower so that my dunce brain can understand? I want to make sure I’m understanding that.
Neil Patel: With crosslinking, what I mean by that is, let’s say you write an article on how to sell a home and make money as a realtor. Let’s say you have this guide, it’s a detailed guide called the “Beginner’s Guide to Being a Realtor.” But now you’re writing this new blog post called “How to Make Money Selling Homes.” Let’s say you talk about like, “Yeah, right when you get your realtor license and you’re just starting off” you may want to link that, “Hey, when you’re getting started as a realtor and you just got your license and you’re starting off,” whatever that phrase may be, link it to that guide on the Beginner’s Guide to Being a Realtor. That’s like crossing-linking your internal…
Joe Fairless: Makes sense. Is there a certain number that you like to have in terms of crosslinking from one article to another?
Neil Patel: Not really. I just link out wherever it makes sense.
Joe Fairless: Do you seek out opportunities to link?
Neil Patel: Yeah, I do. Wherever there’s an opportunity, whether it’s someone else’s site, or I go through my old articles, and I see if I can link my new piece of content from some of my older articles, I always search for new opportunities.
Joe Fairless: You said linking out to other people’s sites… How much does that play into your overall ranking?
Neil Patel: Whenever I link out — whenever other people have good information, I link out, whether it’s five times or 50 times an article, there is no limit or minimum amount. It’s more so, I do it whenever it’s [unintelligible [00:05:47]. Let’s say someone is writing an article about real estate law and there are different states – well, each state has its own laws, why not just link out to someone else’s article that breaks down the laws in California, someone else who breaks down the laws in New York, and someone else who breaks some of the laws in Minnesota, etc. It’s like, you don’t want to rewrite stuff that’s already out there, especially if you can’t add anything new. If you can add new stuff, by all means, rewrite and make yours better. But if you can’t, then link out to the existing pieces that are already out on the web, even if they are competitors.
Joe Fairless: As far as the Twitter reverse engineering, what tool did you recommend using for that?
Neil Patel: BuzzSumo.
Joe Fairless: BuzzSumo for that as well? Okay.
Neil Patel: Well, for Twitter, BuzzSumo shows you what content your competitors are writing that is popular on the social web. To see who specifically tweeted out, you just take that URL, and you put it into search.twitter.com.
Joe Fairless: What would you say is a mistake that you see entrepreneurs make when they’re establishing an online presence?
Neil Patel: A big mistake that I’m seeing when people are trying to establish a presence, they expect results right away and they don’t stick with things. The reason being is marketing, general content marketing, any form of online marketing – it takes time to see results and build that brand. To build that brand, you have to do different types of marketing, you can’t just be like, “I want to build a brand.” Whatever you’re trying to do and you’re trying to market, it takes time, and it’s consistency. Most people, when they’re trying to build that personal brand, get more traffic, or grow their business, they’ll do it for a month or two and then just stop.
Joe Fairless: How long does it take? I know we have to define the finish line for you to answer that, but again, take it whichever direction you want, just to elaborate a little bit more on not needing to see results or not expecting to see results immediately.
Neil Patel: It takes six months to see some decent results, one year to see good results, two years to really start seeing it flourish and grow.
Joe Fairless: Okay. As far as how long, you said consistency is also important. If following that same timeline, six months, 12 months, two years, what do you need to be doing consistently to be able to deliver on that timeline?
Neil Patel: You need to be writing content multiple times a week, you need to be sharing posts on social media multiple times a week, you need to be participating in the community multiple times a week… You can’t do everything, but you should do SEO every week, content marketing, social media marketing… But pick one or two channels of those and then go from there. Whatever it is, do it multiple times a week and just pick two or one if that’s all you have time for. As you have more time, expand it to two, and then expand it to three, and etc.
Theo Hicks: Great practical advice from Neil Patel on how to increase traffic to your website, how to increase the conversion rate of the traffic you’re attracting to your website, some SEO and keyword best practices, as well as how to avoid the biggest mistake that people make when attempting to create a website, which is that lack of consistency. I highly recommend listening to Neil’s full episode for more tips on driving traffic to your website and increasing your conversion rates. His episode is JF1069: Drive More Traffic to Your Website – With Neil Patel.
Theo Hicks: The second clip comes from Chris Dayley. So Chris Dayley actually owns a consulting company that will help you run tests on your website to see where you can improve. In this clip, he is going to give us tips on what they look at when they are analyzing a website and then some of the solutions they implement for their customers to, again, drive more traffic and increase conversions. Here’s what Chris had to say.
Joe Fairless: If a Best Ever listener has a website, they reach out to you, and they say “I’d like to make sure I’m converting the most amount of people who arrive at my website.” How do you approach it? What’s the engagement look like and what do you do?
Chris Dayley: There are a couple of things that I do and there are some things that your Best Ever listeners can go in and do themselves to get a sense of where there may be opportunities to do a better job converting people. I go through a very methodical process and analysis of a website. In this analysis, what I’m really trying to do is I’m trying to uncover the good and the bad about the site. I look at things like content, what content do you have on your site? How much of that content is there? Is it relevant? Those types of things. At this point, we’re not talking about testing at all, we’re just saying, “Okay, we’ve got content, we’ve got on a specific page, we’ve got three paragraphs of content, or we’ve got two sentences of content.” Whatever. You’re trying to just identify what’s on your site right now.
So we look at content, we look at the value proposition, so what value do you have for your audience? For realtors, this is going to be… You’ve got a home; if people are looking for a home, you’ve got a home, but it may be certain aspects of the home that you want to highlight. You’ve got a home that has a pool, you’ve got a home that has a great location, you’ve got a home that has a great view, whatever it may be. That’s your value proposition, whatever value you have for the audience.
Again, we’re identifying what’s our value proposition? Can you find it? Is it easily identified by somebody who’s coming to the site for the first time? I call the content, the value proposition, and the call to action, which is to tell your users what you want them to do. I call those three things the motivation factors. Those are the things that are going to motivate people to take action. The call to action is a critically important one, because if you want someone to reach out to you, if you want them to give you a call, that needs to be the thing that stands out on your site more than anything else. If you want people to just click through and check out pictures of the property, then that needs to be obvious to the users. If you want them to fill out a form on your site, fill out an email newsletter, so on and so forth, it needs to be very, very obvious. It needs to be a colorful, color contrast on the page, it needs to just be very obvious. Those are the motivation factors.
Then we look at things that I call resistance factors. Those are things like distractions. I’ll usually sit down with my clients and I’ll say, “What are the things that could potentially be distracting your users from the thing you want them to do, from your value proposition, from your call to action?” A lot of times distractions are things that people think are really valuable, but what it’s actually doing is it’s just putting extra stuff on the page. And so things that can be distracting are other offers. You might have a ton of other homes that people want to check out. Well, if you’ve got them to a relevant page that has a value proposition that will be valuable to them, you don’t want to take them to other homes, you don’t want to take other pages on your site; you want them to sign up or to reach out and contact you now. We try to identify anything that could potentially be distracting and we look at things that could potentially cause anxiety. The things that cause anxiety a lot of times are if I can’t figure out what to do, or if I have to take multiple steps in order to actually do what you want. If there’s a button that says, Click here to contact us, then I click there, then it takes me to another page, and I have to click another button in order to get a form – that’s a high anxiety process.
So we identify things that could potentially be causing anxiety. Then we look at – the very last thing is, how responsive is your web experience? If I come to your site on a mobile device, is it super mobile-friendly? Is it customized for mobile? Or is everything just shrunken down, like all the pictures super small and I can’t figure out how to flip through the pictures? Or if you want me to call you, is there a click to call button? Is it super easy for me to do that on a mobile device? That’s kind of a process I take my clients through when we very first start, and that is just to identify potential opportunities. Again, if you have a weak value proposition, we might want to run some tests to strengthen that value proposition. If there’s a ton of distractions, we might want to run some tests to remove or lessen those distractions.
Joe Fairless: What are some typical solutions that you’ve implemented that have generated big results?
Chris Dayley: There are a few things that I call kind of low-hanging fruit tests. They’re ones that don’t always work. That’s one of the things that people need to understand when they start testing, is there’s not a guaranteed one size fits all approach for testing. It’s not something that you can just do and automatically get better conversion rates. It’s a process of learning about your audience, of asking questions and saying, “Okay, we’ve identified that there’s a lot of content on our site. Maybe our audience wants a lot of content, maybe they don’t.” So let’s ask the question, how much content do they want? Then let’s test three different versions of our site – one that has a lot of content, one that has a medium amount, one that has hardly any.
When we get those results back, let’s ask follow-up questions. Let’s say that having a medium amount of content works best. If that medium amount of content works best, the follow-up question is going to be what content should it be? If you’re showing a property that’s listed, what is the stuff that’s really going to drive people to reach out? What is the stuff that people really care about? Do they care how many bathrooms the location has? What is exactly the stuff that’s going to compel people to reach out?
The things that I’ve found that typically have the biggest impact, number one is just general design. We’ll usually include this as one of our rounds of testing, but we will create three or four different layouts for a page. Or if you’ve got a pop-up that comes up to try to get people’s email addresses… And I’ll say this, every person who has a site should have some kind of a pop-up to gather information, to gather email addresses so that you can start remarketing to those people. If you have one of those, you want to test a bunch of different designs, because the way that pop up looks, the way that it first grabs people’s attention is either going to alarm people and cause anxiety, or it may capture attention, and people will go “Huh, what’s this?”
Design can be a really, really important element. I’ve seen that testing different designs have as much as a 100% increase in conversion rate, without changing any of the content at all. So design is a major thing that I look at, and that’s obviously something that’s a little bit more involved in order to test.
I think the second most impactful thing is the call to action. This is a very easy thing to test, usually, if you can identify what your call to action is. Again, if you’ve got a pop-up that comes up, either maybe right when you get to the site, or maybe it’s an exit pop-up, that you’re trying to get some information from people before they leave your site… The way that you tell people to give you their information can be hugely influential on whether or not they actually do it. I ran a test for a client of mine, Social Media Examiner, they’re the largest social media information website on the planet. It’s just a content site, so they want people to come and read content, read articles, engage with things. They obviously want email subscribers, that’s a big deal to them. We were testing what is going to prompt people to actually give us their email address? Will they just give it if we say “Get regular updates from us”, or do we need to have some kind of an offer? I’m going to suggest that you should always have an offer on your email pop-ups. It could be something like five things every person should know before buying a home, or an eBook, or some kind of free content that you can offer people and say “Sign up now to get our free eBook on whatever.”
That can be hugely, hugely beneficial to figure out what kind of content do people want there/ That’s your call to action and your value proposition. I will sometimes have my clients test three or four different eBooks and say, “Okay, well, you’ve got this eBook and you’ve been running it for years and years and years.” How do you know that worked? Why don’t you write one page of an eBook of four different types of eBooks? Find out the one that people want, and then you can flush it out; you can write the rest of the content for that eBook that people actually want. Those are some things that I would really suggest people think about. So design, call to action, and then the actual value proposition, what you are giving people can really, really impact conversion rates.
Theo Hicks: As Chris said, the things that they look at when they are analyzing your website is the content you’re creating, that value proposition, what he calls the resistance factors, as well as your responsiveness to inquiries from your listeners, your viewers, your followers, your readers. He also provided a list of typical solutions that they use to increase the conversion rate on your website, mostly focusing on the design changes, as well as your call to action. Again, if you want to hear more from Chris, check out his episode, JF1062: Getting More Traffic and Conversions on Your Website #SkillSetSunday With Chris Dayley
Theo Hicks: This last clip comes from a conversation that I had with Melissa Johnson. Melissa Johnson, at one point, was finding upwards of 80% of her real estate deals from her websites. Again, you can be using these strategies to find deals, to raise money, to accomplish some task; the overall approach and strategies still apply, regardless of what you’re attempting to do. Melissa, in her clip, is going to give us kind of a wide range of tips on how to find more deals through your website. So listen to what Melissa had to say.
Theo Hicks: The two things I wanted to talk about in our remaining time would be diving deeper into this type of content, and then you’ve got a really nice website, you have all these key elements on your website, but then how do people actually find your website and get there. First let’s talk about the relevant content, and that ties into getting people to your website, and then, obviously, you can talk about that, too.
Melissa Johnson: Let’s see. Well, I think, first of all, just basic relevant content. Just stating, again, what’s your process? When somebody comes to your website, usually they want to know how it works. You want to make sure that that’s laid out. That’s relevant content, for sure. This is what we do, this is how we do it, these are the type of people that we help, these are the situations that they’re in… Then you can start to go into more detail with that on a blog, for example. You can have a blog page set up on your website. This could be a video too, if you wanted it to be. It doesn’t have to be like a written blog. But think about the situations that your sellers find themselves in, especially when you’re going on appointments or taking phone calls. Take notes about what they’re saying and use that for content.
Especially, this is great too if you’re recording your phone calls. We record all of our phone calls with the sellers, so we can go back and actually listen and pull things from those conversations to use for content. But you want to make sure that you’re creating content that speaks to their situation, something that’s helpful. Don’t make it all about you and what you can do for them, but make it to where “Hey, this is a valuable resource. This person helped me and they don’t even know me, but this was really helpful for me.” So stuff like lists of moving companies in the area, or what does the probate process looks like in your state, or what does the eviction process look like in your state. Any kind of free little tools that you can give them through a blog post is also relevant content that’s really helpful. Any little things that you can provide to the sellers that are helpful, pulling from things that they’ve actually said, is just a really good place to start with all that.
Well, let me go back to, if you buy an out-of-the-box sort of website, you can customize those. Say you get like a Carrot website or a LeadPropeller website – a lot of them come loaded with content already on it. But that’s the same content that a lot of other people have. So you want to make sure that you go through and customize that to you and your company, your location, things like that. Then those blog posts are also going to separate your website from the 50,000 other websites that are just like it. Having that good content in there in the form of a blog or something is good. Then you want to make sure that you’re doing that regularly, putting out content on a regular basis. Maybe you start doing it once a month to begin, and then ramping that up; as you talk to more people, you get more ideas for content, I would say bump that up to like once a week. Of course, you’re mixing this with all the other things that you’re doing, like on social and things like that, you can pull micro content from that bigger content that you used in small posts and things like that.
But everything goes back to the website. That’s where your meat really sits if that makes sense. All the good stuff is there. When somebody goes to your website, they can click on that and say, “Okay, this is an article I need to read right now. Because I just inherited this house and I don’t really know what to do with it. Where do I start?”
Theo Hicks: Once I have this content or while I’m creating this content, do I want to maybe keep in mind writing in a certain way or using certain keywords to make sure that it’s easily searchable? Or are you attracting people by sharing it on social media and stuff? How are you getting people to read these blog posts once they’re written?
Melissa Johnson: It’s both. Like I was saying, you can write a nice blog post, and then if you’ve got somebody on your team or if you can do this yourself, chop that up into smaller content that can be put out as Instagram posts or quick LinkedIn posts. But you can always link those blog posts back also. If you share it on Facebook, if you share it on LinkedIn, if you share it on YouTube, if it’s a video, TikTok even I guess – all these different platforms, it just makes it easier to have it in that one place and then sharing it out through. And also having it work back the other way, too. That was something I was going to talk about too, is just ranking your site, like driving traffic to your site, and then checking to see what’s happening with that. Because they’ve got all these great tools and stuff out there now where you can see your analytics for your sites. That’s going to help you figure out what content is hitting, how your site is performing, and there’s a lot of things that go into that too.
Like you were saying with the keywords, you want to make sure that when you’re writing something, that it is keyword rich, but not overly so, because there’s so much to SEO. I’m definitely not an expert in that area, but I know enough to probably be dangerous. I know that there’s a lot to keywords and things like that. You don’t want to have too much, I think, of certain things because it can hurt you, but then not enough can also hurt you. You’ve got to figure out what that medium is and looking at the analytics really helps with that. The more specific you can be with your keywords, the better, too. Especially with regards to location and situation, I think. The more you can put in there, like inherited a house, or dealing with probate, or dealing with a problem tenant. There are resources out there, they’ll give you the good keywords to use and you want to make sure you’re peppering those throughout your website, so that that helps you become more easily found.
Another thing you can do too is driving traffic to your site through paid resources, like PPC. You can do paid SEO, but you can also do things organically that don’t cost any money, to drive traffic to your site. That’s what I encourage people to do when they first get started. Because you need budgets to do AdWords; you need a budget to have somebody working the SEO on your site. But there are things that you can do yourself that don’t cost anything. One of them is putting out good content and sharing it, another thing is I like to add my website to all my mail pieces and anything that I send out. If I send out a direct mail piece, I’m giving them the option also to go to another site ad, that way they can see that. You could put it on your bandit signs, if you’re putting signs on your car, put it on your car, put it on your business cards, flyers, brochures, door hangers if you’re doing those… All those are places where you’re doing that marketing anyway, so you may as well throw your website on there too, and drive some traffic to it. That’s very low cost and easy to do.
Theo Hicks: Those are all great. Is there anything else that you have that you want to talk about that we weren’t able to hit, that you want to mention before we sign off?
Melissa Johnson: There’s a couple of really quick things. One of them is if you don’t have a Google My Business Page, get one. That pulls you up on the map search. If somebody says “I need to sell my house in San Antonio,” if you have a Google My Business Page, it’ll make you pop up on the map, and that’s free. That’s a nice thing to have. Another thing is just make sure that your page load speed is good. If your website loads too slow or doesn’t load right, that can be a problem. Make sure all the external links, all those are working, and make sure that your website is mobile optimized. There are ways to check that, too. A lot of times with these site builders, you can actually click and see what your site looks like on desktop, what it looks like on mobile phones, what it looks like on a tablet. You just want to make sure that everything looks good on mobile, because most people are doing searches from their phones these days, so it needs to look good and load fast on a phone.
One last tip that I have that is a super, super cool thing – there is a tool called Hotjar. I always want to say heat jar, but it’s Hotjar. It’s a really cool thing that you can use; you can put it on your computer and it actually tracks people’s movements on your website. It’s kind of like a heat map, if you’re familiar with a heat map. This actually records where people are going on your site, so you can actually track them and see, “Okay, where are they hanging out? Where did they click? How long they spent this much time on this thing?” That will start to tell you if something’s confusing or unclear, or if they’re abandoning the site, maybe they start filling out the form and then they abandon, or whatever. You’ll have all that information captured. You can even see what sort of device that they’re on, looking at your site. It’s a really cool thing to help you improve the user experience on your site and to see how things are converting.
Theo Hicks: As I mentioned, even though in this case Melissa is a fix-in-flipper, the type of content that she is creating, the information she puts on her website is going to be different than you as a commercial real estate investor. But the overall concepts, strategies, and approach still apply. Melissa gave us tips for creating content and then promoting that content in order to drive traffic to your website. She talked briefly on paid advertising and then she provided us with some very invaluable miscellaneous tips on making sure you have a Google My Business Page, checking out the load times of your website to decrease that bounce rate. Then she talked about one of her favorite software programs, Hotjar, which is the heat map that allows you to see where people are on your website. Something else that Melissa talked about at the beginning of her show was how to set up a website and the key components of the website. If you want to hear that, as well as learn more from Melissa, check out her episode, JF2392: Finding Deals Through Your Website With Melissa Johnson, a Skillset Sunday.
In conclusion, we’ve got three clips from three powerhouse real estate investors, marketing experts. Starting with Neil Patel, who again, taught us how to drive more traffic to our website, increase our conversions, through SEO, keyword best practices, and making sure that we’re sticking to it and staying consistent. Chris Dayley gave us an inside look into how he and his company tests various websites, and then some of the solutions they’ll implement to improve the websites. Then Melissa focused more on the content creation side, as well as again, some of those miscellaneous tips on how to improve your website. And the overall goal of all this is to, again, drive more traffic to your website. As you get more traffic, convert that traffic into whatever your end goal is, whether it be finding a deal, selling a deal, raising capital, whatever it is, a lot of these tips that we talked about today can help you. So my call to action for you would be to take at least one thing that you learned in this episode today and then apply that to your business for the next say three to six months and see if that improves your conversion rate or increases the amount of traffic that comes to your website. Thank you for tuning in today. As always, Best Listeners have a best ever day and we’ll talk to you tomorrow.
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