Shiloh is a therapist and real estate investor. When he needed a new office space, rather than lease, he found an office building to buy and put tenants in. He also has a lot of lease option properties as an investor. Shiloh breaks down exactly how he structures his lease options and tells us how he’s grown his investing business to where it is today. If you enjoyed today’s episode remember to subscribe in iTunes and leave us a review!
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Shiloh Lundahl Real Estate Background:
- Child and family therapist and real estate investor
- Started investing in 2010 with one SFR
- Now focuses on lease options and owns over 50 units
- Based in Gilbert, AZ
- Say hi to him at www.blueequities.com
- Best Ever Book: Richest Man in Babylon
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Joe Fairless: Best Ever listeners, how are you doing? Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Joe Fairless, and this is the world’s longest-running daily real estate investing podcast. We only talk about the best advice ever, we don’t get into any of that fluffy stuff.
With us today, Shiloh Lundahl. How are you doing, Shiloh?
Shiloh Lundahl: I’m doing pretty good.
Joe Fairless: Well, I’m glad to hear that, and so am I. I’m looking forward to our conversation. Shiloh is a child and family therapist, and he’s also a real estate investor. He started investing in 2010 with one single-family rental, and now focuses on lease options and owns over 50 units. Based in Gilbert, Arizona. With that being said, Shiloh, will you give the Best Ever listeners just a little bit more about your background and your current focus?
Shiloh Lundahl: Sure. As you said, back in 2010 is when we got our first rental property. We moved to Arizona in about 2008, after I got my masters degree in social work; we moved down here, and I’ve been working as a therapist ever since.
We moved during the downturn in the market, and so we were able to get our own homes for a pretty decent price, and then a couple years later the homes around us – there were so many foreclosures… And I had a friend of mine who was a real estate agent at the time, and I was listening a lot to the Rich Dad, Poor Dad series… So I told my buddy that I wanted to buy a rental.
We were looking around our neighborhood and we purchased this property out in — it was a place called San Tan Valley, in Arizona. That’s kind of how we got started back in 2010… But then I didn’t do anything else until 2014, when I came into real estate. The practice that I have is based out of Mesa, Arizona, and the building in which I have my practice – it came up on the market; the owner had passed away, and his widow was selling the building, so I approached her (or her realtor) and asked if I could buy the building.
I ended up purchasing the building that I have my practice out of, now I rent it out to 11 other therapists, and myself.
Joe Fairless: Wow. Did you buy that outright, just traditionally?
Shiloh Lundahl: Yeah, I did but it… It was a traditional purchase. But because I also have my practice here, I got an owner occupy loan, and then I had a family member that helped me with the down payment for the building… So that’s kind of how I got the down payment for the building. Then I was able to actually purchase it with that.
Joe Fairless: So you said there are — how many offices? Did you say 11 other offices in that building?
Shiloh Lundahl: Yeah, we have 12 offices and a group room. I have one of the offices, and then there’s 11 other therapists that I rent out to.
Joe Fairless: Okay. What year was this when you bought it?
Shiloh Lundahl: It was back in 2014.
Joe Fairless: 2014. How many other offices at the time, in 2014, were occupied?
Shiloh Lundahl: When I bought the building, it was split into two different suites. On the suite where the therapists were at, there were six offices. So when I bought the building, I built out the other side. There was already five offices, and then just an open space, so I kind of closed off that office space and made a large group room, and then I converted the kitchen into another office. So at the beginning there were six, and then I was able to make 12 out of it.
Joe Fairless: That’s an incredible value-add play and vision, because it’s clearly worked out for you. In 2014 when it was on the market, you mentioned there were six offices, were the other five occupied with tenants?
Shiloh Lundahl: Yes. The six therapists on the one side… And I knew that when I purchase the building, what I wanted to do was I wanted to build out the other side and fill it with other therapists… So before I actually closed on the building, I had talked with a lot of other therapists that wanted to come over and be part of our group, and then I was able to fill all the office spaces even before I closed.
I closed at the beginning of November, I had the contractor come in over a two-week period of time in the evenings, and they rehabbed that other side, and then by the 15th of November, I had all 12 offices filled.
Joe Fairless: Wow. That’s incredible… You’re just going through the playbook of what to do on a commercial transaction, value-add play, and I’d like to recap some of this, either in a little bit or at the very end of our conversation, and I will… But I asked if there were other residents in those offices because – and you said there were – and I asked that because they also had the opportunity to do what you’re doing, but they did not. And I’m not pointing fingers at anyone, I’m just making an observation that you chose to act on it and actually purchase it – and not only purchase it, but you then did the value-add play, where you talked to other therapists, recruited them over, got them filled up, and then were doing some construction.
So you not only had the foresight to see the vision, but then you started executing on it in advance… What gave you the confidence to do that?
Shiloh Lundahl: It’s interesting… At the time I knew that I wanted to be here in this building, and when the other side was empty, I thought “Man, I really don’t want a dentist office going into the other side and then setting up a room on the other side of my wall, where they’re drilling teeth while I’m doing a therapy session. I don’t want them to be definitely interrupting the environment”, so I felt kind of a need to have one of us buy the building.
I talked to some of the other therapists, but they just weren’t in a position that they were able to do it… And I was able to do it, so I structured my finances and things in a certain way to where I was able to get a loan and purchase the building.
The other people – they had the opportunity, but my personality is that of if I want something, I go and I figure out a way to make it happen, and that’s kind of what happened with the building.
Joe Fairless: It sounds like you saw a danger in what could take place, so you didn’t want to put your business in a vulnerable position where you got people getting their teeth drilled on right next door, so that pushed you to action.
Have you seen that take place in your other endeavors as you’ve progressed in real estate, where you saw that you might be in a tight spot if you didn’t take action, so then you did?
Shiloh Lundahl: Well, I don’t know so much that exactly, but as soon as I got the building, it really kind of ignited this real estate bug inside of me… So I ran across my Rich Dad, Poor Dad audios again at the time, and I listened to those, and I thought “Man, why did I ever stop investing in real estate before?”
Then I contacted my buddy who helped me get that original property and I said “Hey, I wanna do another deal with you.”
So in 2015 he and I started doing deals together, and we ended up doing three in 2015… So there was just something that — again, I saw that opportunity and I just started to take action. Connecting with my buddy was great, because he had a lot more experience than me. So we did that in 2015, and then in 2016 I ended up doing a year-long education program – one of those expensive programs, but it really kind of helped me… And I think that my personality really worked well with doing a program like that, because it gave me more confidence. Then in 2016 my buddy and I – we ended up doing seven deals, where we did six flips and one buy and hold.
Then in 2017 we switched our model over to a lease option model. Then in 2017 we got 23 deals, and then we kept 17 of them to do lease options.
So far this year we’ve done another eight that we’re doing lease options on. So we definitely switched our model, from doing — I got the commercial building, and then I went into doing flips, we saw the margin getting smaller on the flips, so then we switched over to doing the lease option model, and we’ve been doing that ever since. That model has been fantastic for us.
Joe Fairless: How much per deal were you making on flips, compared to a lease option?
Shiloh Lundahl: In 2016, with the six flips that we did, we netted about 95k each. That is maybe about 15k or so per flip. Now the lease option — it’s a longer play; it’s a 3-5 year play, but my buddy and I each make probably I would say on average between 30k and 40k on each lease option deal. And it’s also more tax beneficial to do it this way, that doing it the flip way.
Joe Fairless: Because it spreads it out…
Shiloh Lundahl: Well, it spreads it out, we don’t have to play short-term capital gains…
Joe Fairless: Right.
Shiloh Lundahl: We’re able to fake depreciation, and then at the end we’re able to take that; when they exercise the option, we can take that and we can do a 1031 exchange into another property and delay our taxes possibly inevitably.
Joe Fairless: How do you structure it with the person who’s leasing it from you?
Shiloh Lundahl: Our model is we go and we find a property that we can have our all-in be less than $140,000. That means the purchase and the rehab. We want that 140k to be 75% or less of the market value.
What that does is it gives us an opportunity to have that 25% equity; we can go to a bank and we can refinance the property. In a lot of these situations we’ve been able to take out the majority, if not all of our money into the property.
So that’s how we get the property – we find it, and then sometimes we advertise it on the MLS, or Craigslist; we advertise that we have a lease option property, and a lot of people don’t know what a lease option property is, so what we’ve done is we’ve created this little video that I have up on my website, and we’ll send people there so they can actually watch the videos. It’s like four-minute little cartoon videos on what a lease option is.
People will be interested — sometimes they’ll call us just because they wanna rent, and we’re like “Well, we’re actually looking for end buyers”, and then we explain it, then they’ll go watch the video, and if they’re interested, they’ll give us a call back, and then they’ll come in with a $3,900 fee to purchase the option in order to get into the property.
Then they’re able to get into the property, and then we connect them with a mortgage broker a year or so into it, where they can go and they can start rebuilding their credit, so that they can purchase the property within that time period, whether it’s five years or four years or three years. And then they’re just paying rent during that time – we don’t do any credit backs, or anything like that… But they’re paying that time, they’re paying down our mortgage, and then we actually sell the property for about 5%-7% higher than the current market value, because we know that prices tend to go up due to appreciation… So by the time they go to buy it, they can actually buy the property for a little bit less than what current market value is… So they’re happy about that, we’re happy because we got a good tenant in there the entire time, they paid down the mortgage… So it really works out for everybody really well.
Joe Fairless: Thank you for walking through that. You just did the play-by-play for how to structure a lease option. That $3,900 fee that they originally pay – is that applied towards their principal?
Shiloh Lundahl: It is not, and it’s not for a couple of reasons… One is they’re paying for an option to purchase the property. Just like if you were to go to the stock market and you buy an option – you don’t actually buy the stocks; you buy an option to buy the stocks. If the stock goes up, then hey, that’s great, I can still buy the stock for this price. Or with a put option, if the stock goes down, you can still buy it for that price that you’ve determined… It’s the same with this house – they buy the option to buy the house for that specific amount.
Now, some people might say “Well, can we have this worked into the price of the property?” and what we say is “We’ve already adjusted it for that, so the price of the property is actually $3,900 more than what you’re buying it for, so we’re just taking that off and we’re agreeing to this price.” So that’s what we do.
Joe Fairless: How long is the option?
Shiloh Lundahl: Last year we did five-year options. This year we’re doing four-year options, and the next year we’re doing three-year options, so that in the year 2022 we’ll have a lot of these options coming due the same year, and then we can go and we can kind of group them together and do some 1031 exchanges into larger properties, with them being grouped together.
Joe Fairless: What would be a red flag for a prospective buyer to get into a lease option where you don’t think that they would qualify in, say, three years to actually exercise?
Shiloh Lundahl: Somebody comes in and they say “I can’t really come up with that $3,900 right up front. Can I divide that out into a couple different months?” That to me says that this person is having a hard time being able to take care of their finances where they don’t have some sort of emergency fund or savings… So they may not be the best fit for one of our properties. That’s a red flag.
Then we also do a credit check. We look to see “Okay, if they can just go and buy their own property right now, why is it they wanna do a lease option?” Is it that their credit is bad, or maybe they just started a business, so they’re not able to get a regular loan right now. So we look at their credit to see where that is, and then we ask “Well, are they able to take care of some of these things the next two years, so that they can purchase the property?” And then are there any felonies or anything like that that may prohibit them from getting a loan?
So we’re looking at all of those things to see if they were to be connected with one of our loan brokers (or whoever), would they be able to work with them in order to get them ready to buy the property.
Joe Fairless: How many do you have right now that are with lease options?
Shiloh Lundahl: We have currently 20 lease options going on right now.
Joe Fairless: Wow… What’s that like from a paperwork standpoint?
Shiloh Lundahl: I have two assistants that work for me, and they just work hourly… But when I did that year-long training program, one of the things that my coach said over and over again is “Shiloh, if you’re gonna get bigger in this, you need to get an assistant. You need to get an assistant.” Every single week when I talked to him, he said “Do you have an assistant? Do you have an assistant?” And it’s absolutely true.
As a therapist, I get paid pretty well per session. I don’t do insurance, I just charge a fee for service, and taking my time out from meeting with families, which is one thing that I’m really good at, to go and do some smaller tasks of meeting with a prospective tenant, and things like that – it’s not very wise money-wise or time-wise… So having these assistants that are able to go and meet with the clients, and they do better with the paperwork, and they keep track of all of the rent when it comes in, they put it in a spreadsheet and everything like that… So really, they’re doing a good majority of that.
Basically, over the last 2-3 years I’ve kind of built this system where I have my realtor who’s my partner in most of these deals, and then I have my two assistants, and he has an assistant, and then we have a contractor that we’ve used many times… So I’m able to do most of my real estate over the phone.
Joe Fairless: The assistants – in total, what do you think is the monthly expense for their time?
Shiloh Lundahl: Good question. I would say maybe $1,000, maybe $1,500, depending on how much time they’re actually spending… But I’ve built that into some of the rents, and then also that’s not just for my real estate businesses. They do the paperwork for my counseling business, and for the building, and several other things that I have going on… And actually, they help me with a lot of other things.
I work in Arizona, but I live half the week in California with my family, and then I just travel back and forth… So I’m only in Arizona about half the week, so if I need my car taken in to go to the shop, then I just call my assistant, she goes, she takes it in, she gets it taken care of, and then she brings it back to me.
So when I’m in Arizona, I’m working all the time, and I have my assistants doing all of the different things that I need done. So part of it is real estate, part of it is personal, part of it is my counseling practice.
Joe Fairless: Looking at the average profits per deal, $30,000/deal…
Shiloh Lundahl: Now, that’s $30,000 for me and $30,000 for my partner.
Joe Fairless: Right, I’m with you. So 30k for you, per deal… And that 15k/flip was also for you… So about 30k/deal, spread out over five years, that’s $6,000/year on average. How much of that is front-loaded and how much is backloaded?
Shiloh Lundahl: I would say most of it is gonna come in on the backend. We get cashflow from each of our properties, but the cashflow that we get is not a whole lot. So it might be 100 for me and 100 for my partner — and actually, we do bring people in on deals like this… What will happen is let’s say we have a property that we wanna do. We go and we get a hard money lender that will come in and they’ll pay for the majority of the purchase price.
Then an investor that kind of wants to learn our system will have them come in and they pay for the rehab… And then we’re showing him how we took down the property, how we determined it was gonna be a good property, and then we show him our whole system from start to finish, and then at the end, when we go and we get a long-term loan, we are then paying back the hard money lender and the private money lender… And the private money lender is happy because they get 10% return on their money — or 10% APR, I should say, return on their money… And then they get the whole experience of learning about it.
So that’s one way that we partner with people… But then on the back-end, let’s say we have a property that still has maybe 10k or 15k of our own money into it, and it’s only leveraged about 70%… We might bring somebody in on the back-end and do a second position note on that property, for maybe 10k or 15k. We’re able to suck out our money and leverage the property up to maybe about 80%, and then that other person just gets passive income… And then they also get to learn the system that we’re using if they’d like…
So the cashflow might be 100 for me, 100 for my partner, and then maybe 100 for this second position investor. So the cashflow isn’t really big per property, but at the end when they go to exercise the option, they’re paying for the closing costs, they’ve been paying down the mortgage on the property, and that’s when we get that big $60,000 profit that then is split between my partner and I.
Joe Fairless: Got it down to a system, that’s for darn sure. It’s impressive how you think about it. How much did you invest in your education during that year program?
Shiloh Lundahl: We invested — this was my wife and I… Actually, it’s a funny story… So I go to a three-day Rich Dad, Poor Dad seminar and I come home and I say to my wife, “Hey sweetie, I wanna do this program; it costs about 40k”, and she’s like “No.” I said, “Okay.”
Joe Fairless: [laughs] “Next. What do you wanna have for dinner?”
Shiloh Lundahl: Yeah. And then we do a flip and we lose about 5k on it, and then she goes to a three-day training, and she comes back and says “Honey, I signed us up for this $40,000 program.” So it wasn’t the Rich Dad, Poor Dad one, but it was another program that she signed us up for…
Joe Fairless: Wow… [laughs] Which one was it?
Shiloh Lundahl: It was called Advanced Real Estate Education. That was the one that we did.
Joe Fairless: It’s very vague-sounding.
Shiloh Lundahl: It was… Well, it was interesting, because it was actually several different funnels to one program… I think the one funnel that we went through was called The Success Path, and the Advanced Real Estate Education was like a bigger one…
Now, it just really kind of worked well with my personality. My personality isn’t so much “read something in a book and then go and do it.” My personality is “Go and talk with people and mingle with people and hear what they’re doing, and spend time with them, and then I can go do it.” That’s just me.
So it was $40,000, but then we paid $25,000 for a coach, and then we also paid a $5,000 package in order to get more funding, and things like that… It really did help with the funding. We had about $200,000 available to us when we started, and then at the end we had about $800,000 available, as I was working with banks and all of these different avenues… So all of that was really helpful for me; it worked well with my personality.
There’s a lot of other people that paid the money that are not nearly as successful as we are with it, but that’s because of their personality. I think that paying for education can be helpful if you work it. I think a lot of people will pay and then they just expect the program to give them things… It was just something that opened my mind to — at the beginning, I thought I’m gonna do four deals a year; going through the education program, I realized I can really do 20 deals or more a year… So the next year we did do 23 deals, and now my partner and I are thinking about doing maybe about 15 deals a year, just adding to our portfolio.
Joe Fairless: The individuals who paid for the $40,000 program but they did not get the ROI, because in your words, they didn’t — well, I don’t know exactly what you said, but you said it worked well for your personality… What about their personality didn’t make the return on investment a good one?
Shiloh Lundahl: Well, I guess looking at it in terms of — if you buy a gym membership, and there are gym memberships that are $10, there are gym memberships that are $40, there are gym memberships that are $100+/month… So it isn’t so much the — how do I put it…? You can pay $100 for a gym membership, and that might even include a personal trainer here and there. But if you don’t go to the gym, and if you don’t work with that personal trainer and if you don’t have goals like “This is what I’m gonna do” and then go there day after day and work towards meeting those goals, then it doesn’t matter how much your gym membership is, you’re not gonna get the results you want.
So for me, doing that program gave me an opportunity to start, and then I just kept going, and as much information they would give me, I would listen to, I would read up on… Or they would say “Go and try this. Go and call our Craigslist ads and see if anybody wants to sell the property”, so I went and I did that. It says “Go and connect with other realtors in your area”, so I went and I did that. “Go to the REIA meetings in your area”, so I went and I did that. I did all of these things that they encouraged me to do.
Joe Fairless: Others weren’t?
Shiloh Lundahl: Yeah, and I think that’s the thing. Other people may have hang-ups of calling people out of the blue and going through the scripts of how to talk to somebody, and how to talk about “Hey, do you rent? Are you buying?”, and all of these questions – a lot of people have that hesitation towards talking to people.
I think my personality plus my profession gave me a little bit more of an advantage of feeling more comfortable talking to people… Because I meet people every day that I’ve never before, and in a short period of time they’re talking to me about everything that’s going on in their life. I think that may have given me more of an advantage over others.
Joe Fairless: It certainly did, and — holy cow, someone invests $40,000 in a program and they don’t wanna make these phone calls that the program says… I just wanna shake them, like “What are you doing?! Call, pick up the phone! Here, I’ll dial a person for you! Call someone! This is the process that’s proven.” Well, this is human nature; it’s just how people are.
What is your best real estate investing advice ever?
Shiloh Lundahl: Good question. I guess my best advice would be to just do it. Go, learn what you can, and then partner with somebody who knows what they’re doing; that’s the biggest thing. There are a lot of people that really know how to do it. Go up to them, take them out to lunch and say “Hey, you know what? I’d really like to know what you’re doing. I’d like to start, I’d like to maybe do a deal with you”, and then when you say that, it’s likely that they’re gonna say “Well, I already have systems in place”, and then you say to them “Here, can I fund your next deal?” So that’s the biggest thing.
My partner and I, we do a lot of real estate not using a lot of our own money now, but at the beginning we had to use a lot of our own money to get started.
If you don’t have much money to start, what I would suggest is go and take control of your finances and start saving. The best book on that is gonna be The Richest Man in Babylon – great book, that will teach you how to start. Start saving, pay yourself 10% first; then you start building that nest egg, you have a little nest egg, and then you go and you say “Hey, I wanna help out… What can I do? I have this money, how can I get started?”
Joe Fairless: We’re gonna do a lightning round. Are you ready for the Best Ever Lightning Round?
Shiloh Lundahl: I’m ready.
Joe Fairless: Alright, let’s do it. First, a quick word from our Best Ever partners.
Joe Fairless: Best ever deal you’ve done?
Shiloh Lundahl: The best ever deal I’ve done was actually a recent one… It’s kind of a funky deal. We saw this one on the MLS, it was a manufactured home out in a place called Apache Junction, which historically has been looked at as a place that you wouldn’t wanna live, in the Phoenix valley. It’s way on the outskirts, it’s kind of in that area that people thought wasn’t very good.
We found this manufactured home on this acre and a quarter, that was being sold with the lot next to it, and it was kind of a probate kind of deal. We really wanted it, so we called up the realtor who was selling it, and he said “Well, I already have some offers on it.” They were selling it for 160k, and we said “Well, we really want this property and we’d like you to represent us.” Even though my partner is a realtor, we said “We’d like you to be the realtor on the deal and just kind of let us know what we should come in at.”
He said, “Well, I think that if you were to put in an offer for 170k you’d be a pretty good candidate.” So we put in the offer for 170k, they accepted our offer… And then on the lot next to it, it had two dilapidated houses… So we go over, and during the inspection period we had a plumber come over and take a look at the plumbing; the plumbing was bad on one of the dilapidated houses, so we go back to the seller and we renegotiated down to 160k. Then as soon as we closed on the property, we already had people that wanted to do lease options with us, and I had other people that wanted to invest with us… So we partnered with an investor as a private money lender; they came in, put 10k into fixing up the manufactured home, we brought somebody else in to buy the home at 195k, we put the other lot on the MLS, and we sold that for 105k.
We took the 105k, we paid down the hard money down to like 64k, plus we had the investor come in with 74k… So that whole deal – we were able to get the person to buy the property for 195k, and our all-in was about 74k. So we just did that.
It was a manufactured home out in an area that people thought was not very good… So that was one of our sweetest deals over the last year.
Joe Fairless: What’s a mistake you’ve made on a transaction?
Shiloh Lundahl: We’ve made lots and lots of mistakes. One of the recent mistakes that we’ve made is we bought a property, and then when the contractor came in to redo some of the plumbing in the house, he’s like “We can’t find where to turn on the plumbing from outside.” It turns out there was no plumbing built to the house… So that was a problem.
Joe Fairless: Details… [laughs]
Shiloh Lundahl: Yeah, we bought it without making sure that there was plumbing to the house, so now we had to go to the neighbor and do a well agreement with the neighbor in order to get water to the house, and that was an extra 13k+ and about two months in work… On that deal, my partner and I were each supposed to make about 50k on the deal, so we’re each gonna make maybe 40k instead. So it’s still gonna be a good deal, but that was one of our mistakes.
Joe Fairless: Best ever way you like to give back?
Shiloh Lundahl: I grew up being raised by a single mom, and my grandfather was a doctor… So one of the things that he said that he did was he would provide some of his services at a discounted rate to some families that have a hard time paying for it… So one of the things that I do to give back is I give single moms a discounted rate on therapy, because I remember growing up how there were some difficulties there financially for us… So that’s one of the ways that I give back, by doing the discounted rate for single moms.
Joe Fairless: How can the Best Ever listeners get in touch with you and learn more about what you’ve got going on?
Shiloh Lundahl: They can come to my website, which is blueequities.com. They can get to know me a little bit there. I also do blog posts on Bigger Pockets, so they can find me out there [unintelligible [00:30:58].17] And I have my phone number there, they can give me a call and reach out to me in that way.
Joe Fairless: Well, thank you so much for being on the show… You really did a crash course on lease options. It was really kind of two separate conversations, and I love it, because we learned two separate things. One is the commercial property that you bought, and what you did to add value to it. By the way, what did you buy it for and what’s it worth now?
Shiloh Lundahl: I bought it for 515k, I put about 35k into it. Recently we got an appraisal, but the appraisal that we got came in way lower than I think that it should have… It came in at 615k. But the rents that I get monthly are about $8,500/month. So if you were to just look at it in terms of a cap rate, we’ve got a cap rate of maybe 7% or 8%. It’d be worth about 700k or 750k. My guess is it’s more worth that today.
Joe Fairless: And you’re not paying rent to someone else. Other people are paying your mortgage, actually.
Shiloh Lundahl: It cash-flows pretty well. It’s definitely my best cash-flowing property, and it’s great because I can choose who I want to come into our group… There was some turnover at the beginning, and it was kind of tough for some of the people that were here at the beginning, but since then, it’s been great. I have awesome people that I work with, and it’s just been a great, great purchase.
Joe Fairless: Well, that, and then a lease options crash course, so thanks so much for being on the show. I’m really grateful that you talked to us about both of those aspects of your business and what you’re working on. I hope you have a best ever day, and we’ll talk to you soon.
Shiloh Lundahl: Thanks so much, Joe. I really appreciate you having me on your show.