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Joe Fairless: Best Ever listeners, how are you doing? Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Joe Fairless, and this is the world’s longest-running daily real estate investing podcast. We only talk about the best advice ever, we don’t get into any of that fluffy stuff.
We’ve got Follow Along Friday. Today we’re gonna be talking about web scraping as it relates to building a database of properties. Instead of doing it manually, there are other alternatives, or there are alternatives to doing a manual input of data in order to build a database of properties and owners that you can reach out to. We’re gonna be talking about one of them, and that’s web scraping. Theo’s actually doing it, and someone in my private consulting group – he actually discovered the idea and shared it with my consulting group, and then Theo started doing it, and other people have, and they’ve had a lot of success, so I wanted to share it with you all, plus we’ve got some other miscellaneous updates. Theo, are you ready to rock?
Theo Hicks: Yeah. Should we just dive right into it?
Joe Fairless: Yeah, let’s do it.
Theo Hicks: So as you said, there are obviously other ways to do this. What I really like about this approach is compared to other ways it doesn’t require the ongoing membership; you don’t have to use this person for the entire process of creating the list and doing the direct mail. It allows you to create a list one time, for whatever market you want; then if you wanna do it again, you can, but you don’t have to, so I really like the fact that it’s kind of an independent thing and you don’t have to do some sort of yearly membership, or anything like that.
Joe Fairless: And it’s cheap.
Theo Hicks: Yeah, it’s surprisingly cheap. As you guys know, I’ve done a direct mailing campaign before and I’ve created my own list manually before. Obviously, that was free, and sending the mailer out was free, but this tactic gives you more information than you would have gotten otherwise, and as Joe said, it’s pretty inexpensive… So I’m gonna do it; it’s called web scraping, and there’s this website called Upwork.com, which is basically like an online freelancing platform. Basically, you would post a job that you wanna have completed, whether it be a book, or in this case create a list for you, and then people will reply with a bid for the job, and you kind of read through their profiles and see what their experience is, what their job success rate is, things like that.
For me, we actually already had a freelancer who had completed this exercise, so I just actually used him… But when I posted my job, and to this day, I still get people offering to do it for me. I’ve got like 30 messages of people wanting to do it, ranging from $100 to $400. Basically, what you do is you create an Excel spreadsheet and create column headers for all of the information that you wanna gather for your market. If you’re doing multiple markets, you’re gonna wanna have a section that says “Market” and then “Submarkets.”
For example, I did Tampa Bay, so I had Tampa Bay as my main market. I had ten submarkets or ten neighborhoods that I wanted him to look at. Then I wanted an apartment name, an apartment address, I wanted things like number of units, I wanted to know when it was sold, how much it was sold for, what are the rents for the units… Things like that.
So for my web scraping exercises there were two sources of data. One was apartments.com, and the reason why I personally like apartments.com is because not only does it list active apartments, so apartments that have active listings, but also apartments that don’t have any listings at all… So you kind of get both, you can gather all the data you need for all the apartments in that area.
So one is apartment.com, and the other one – it’s called different things in different markets, but I just call the County Auditor site, or the County Appraiser site. That’s where you get information on the sales, and maybe tax values, and things like that. So you have to know where you’re getting the data from, and basically what you do is you post a job, you hire someone, and then — we decided just to create a video, a screen recording of us actually filling out our Excel spreadsheet just for one entry. Mine is like 15 minutes long, because of course, I talk forever; it’s probably a lot longer than it should have been. But you do a screen recording and say “Hey, this is what I want. You go to apartments.com, you click on an apartment”, you show him where the information is on the actual listing, you input it into your Excel document. Then you go to the auditor site, you look up that address, you go on there — and of course, that’s the most important part, because the auditor site is gonna be different for everyone. In Tampa Bay it’s a lot different than the one in Cincinnati.
You go on there and show them exactly how to navigate the site, how to find the data and then input it into the Excel spreadsheet… And then that’s it. And then you go and you send the web scraper and the Excel spreadsheet and the video, and from there you wait a couple of days, and then next thing you know you get a message with over 4,000 or 5,000 apartments with all the data that you want… And it could cost, as I mentioned earlier — for this particular exercise it was $300 for me, but that’s because I used the same guide that your client used… And I did have offers that were less than $300, but I knew for a fact that this guy could do it, so it was worth paying $300, because in reality, compared to what you would pay someone else to do this – it would be in the thousands of dollars, or having a CoStar membership in the thousands of dollars… I just went ahead with this guy.
So where I’m at right now is I just got the Excel document back on Tuesday, I believe… And from your guys’ perspective, whatever your outcome is is what you can do with that data – whether it be for market research, whether it be for rental comps (you can use it for rental comps), you can use it for direct mailing, which is what I’m gonna use it for. So now I wanna in turn, either myself or hire another third-party company to perform a direct mailing campaign for me based off of the properties that were gathered and the information that’s on there. So that’s a broad overview of the process, as well as what I plan on doing with the results.
Joe Fairless: I’m making sure I’m summarizing correctly… One is know what you want – in this case it’s a database of properties and the owners of those properties. Two, you go on Upwork and you hire someone to web scrape… What’s the job posting say in terms of what type of position you’re looking for?
Theo Hicks: My exact title was “Tampa Bay apartment web scraping.” Then it allows you to put a description. You wanna put “web scraping”, because that’s just like the lingo that the freelancers understand. Then the description that I use is gather data on two websites, and fill out a provided Excel document.
Because for them, they don’t really care what they’re actually looking at. They don’t need to know they’re doing it for real estate. I’m pretty sure that they have a program they create that literally scrapes the websites for the data and then populates it into a text file that they then convert to Excel… But you’ve gotta let it be known that it’s web scraping, and then kind of explain – a high-level description of the number of sites they’re scraping.
Maybe I should’ve also put in – at least in the description – the number of data points I was looking at, but since I was messaging this guy back and forth, my first message to him went into the detail of how many I expected to look at, how many markets I was looking at… So if you wanna put that in the description, that’s fine, but again, I got a bunch of responses just for this description. And again, the title is your city name, apartment web scraping, and the description is “Gather data on two websites and fill out a provided Excel document.”
Joe Fairless: Cool. So know what we want, then go to Upwork and post it, and then when we post it, mention that they’re getting sources from two different websites, and then have a video that describes what you’re looking for, and give them a spreadsheet template that shows the different data points or categories that you want them to complete. If you’re doing it to find properties, then you’ll want to have the owners’ contact information from the County Assessor’s website, or at least their entity, as well as whatever relevant information you want on the property.
You can get thousands of leads from this in a very short period of time. It’s a beautiful thing, and it will save you money, save you time, and make you money in a shorter period of time.
First off, Whitney in our group is the one that came to us with this information. This isn’t new technology, by the way. Some of the IT listeners who are really tech savvy are like, “Joe, come on… Web scraping? It’s been around a little while.” I get that. But I haven’t heard this used to the degree that we’re using it or in this capacity, so there you go… It will be helpful for you if you’re looking for off-market deals.
Everyone who says “Hey, are you looking for off-market deals? It’s a hot market” – here’s the approach to do. Alright, Theo, what else is going on?
Theo Hicks: So a couple of updates on my rental property, because we haven’t talked in quite a while… Some pros and some cons. So on my actual properties that I own – number one, at least for our single-family we officially started a lease in the beginning of April. The direction I’m moving in until June or July, but since we moved, we wanted to start the lease earlier than July, because we didn’t wanna have to pay for multiple mortgages for that long… So that’s a good sign, and they’re paying, which is obviously the most important thing.
Then in regards to my three fourplexes, we had our first two turnovers, which we were expecting for both of these people… Not necessarily expecting, but I guess wanting… And we decided to go ahead and kind of break into the walls and do plumbing work that needed to be done, and we figured it would be best to do it while they were vacant. We’re gonna have to do this to all the buildings, so that’s kind of unfortunate, and it’s pretty expensive, but…
Joe Fairless: How much?
Theo Hicks: We replaced the entire stack, and it was 3k.
Joe Fairless: And when you stack – will you define what you mean by stack?
Theo Hicks: Yeah. These properties are really old, so we have these long cast iron sewage pipes going through the entire house, and that’s what all the toilets and the sinks are connected to. I don’t understand the architecture or the design behind these things, but there’s all these different elbows and these different places where all this literally crap gets stuck, and we had so many probably, we had so many calls with clogged toilets, clogged sinks, clogged tubs, and I probably spent almost 3k just in labor and in supplies to fix these things… So we decided to just break into the walls when no one’s living in there. We had to go in there and basically take out the entire cast iron stack, which is from the roof all the way to the basement (it’s a two-story building) and then replace it with PVC. How they do this – I don’t know, but I bet you it must be pretty complicated if it costs 3k, because obviously the majority of that is in labor. So I’ll have to do that five more times as they’re gonna turn over.
Joe Fairless: 3k times five?
Theo Hicks: Yeah.
Joe Fairless: So I would assume that was in the — you said pros and cons; that was in the cons category, although once it’s fixed, it’s fixed, and then that’s a pro, I guess…
Theo Hicks: Yes. And honestly, I didn’t even think to look at this when I bought the house. So moving forward now when I’m looking at properties – as you all know, I look at the boilers, and I look at the plumbing to see if they have cast iron. Because if they have cast iron, I know that most likely I’m gonna have to replace them. So that’s one of the cons.
Joe Fairless: Do you have a document where you keep a running list of boilers and cast iron, things like that?
Theo Hicks: Like a cost, or just the mistakes?
Joe Fairless: The things you would look at closer on the next deal – do you have a running document, or is that just in your head because you got burned on it so it’s hardwired?
Theo Hicks: I would say both. It’s in my head, it’s hardwired emotionally now, for sure…
Joe Fairless: [laughs]
Theo Hicks: But I also created a — since I’m not in Cincinnati, and I’ve got all these properties that my agent and my property manager are looking at, I sent them an Excel spreadsheet for them to kind of put Yes or No’s, or 1 through 5 rankings for things… And on there I’ve got the normal stuff, like what the appliance is, what’s the conditions of the floors, the roof… But then I’ve got two specific ones for the boiler, like “Tell me about the boiler” and “Tell me about the plumbing in the basement.” I want pictures of all this stuff, because I need to know before I make any decision to submit an offer… Because again, those are really, really expensive to fix.
It’s not in a Word document, but I have it included in a checklist that I’ve sent to my boots on the ground in Cincinnati.
Joe Fairless: And what about the pros?
Theo Hicks: The pros – a couple of good things. Let’s just go over one more negative first. From my direct mailing campaign – I told everyone there was one of the properties I was really excited about; we were in negotiations with the owner… And the owners fell off of the face of the Earth, so we’re not going to do that deal. The other backup deal that we’re going to do I decided against, specifically because of the location. It’s at the edge of the neighborhood that I’m interested in, in a place called Norwood, and the part of Norwood that it borders is not a very nice area… So I was not gonna be able to get the same rents as on my property.
I kind of had a conversation with Marcella, and she was saying how I was rushing into this, and I needed to be patient, and make sure that it’s actually a good deal, and that the numbers work, and not just buy a property because we have a deal in front of us. So we decided to pass, specifically because of the location, the fact that we were not gonna be able to increase the rents to the point where it made financial sense, and in part because we’re still kind of holding out for that other property, because if we get that property, it would be our best deal yet… And I know one of the owners is interested, and I’m sure he was trying to convince the other person, so… I guess that’s the last bad news, so to speak, but there’s still hope in the future, and we’re going to do a second direct mailing campaign here in a month, to the same list, and hope that we get a bite.
Joe Fairless: How many people do you send it to? Do I remember 600 or am I making that up? …the direct mail.
Theo Hicks: It was about 500 people.
Joe Fairless: 500 people. But now that you’ve done the web scraping, you have a list of — oh, that’s Tampa though. Why didn’t you do it for Cincinnati? You’re buying in Cincinnati.
Theo Hicks: This is actually for apartments. I’ve partnered up, so to speak, with someone here in Tampa who can raise money, so these are kind of two separate things. The one in Cincinnati is more personal, and I’ve already got a direct mailing campaign going for that. The web scraping is actually for Tampa Bay and I’m looking at apartments in the 20 to 60-unit range. So they’re separate.
Joe Fairless: Okay. I’m just curious… If it costs, say, $300 to do it for Cincinnati and you are actively looking to buy in Cincinnati, would you want to build your database in Cincinnati and mail it out instead of to the 600 of the same ones, to 3,000 and increase your chances?
Theo Hicks: The only reason I’m not doing it for Cincinnati – I basically already did it myself. I have all the 4 to 19-unit properties in four neighborhoods, and I have all the same data that I would have gotten through the web scraping. It took a long time to figure out how to do it, but I have a system now where I just kind of can download all the information for all of Cincinnati and then just filter out the data that I want. I just don’t know how to do it for Tampa, and I couldn’t figure it out.
Joe Fairless: Got it. So you MacGyvered it for Cincinnati. Okay, fair enough. Cool.
Theo Hicks: And then lastly, under the good news, we successfully raised rents. We’re four for four in raising rents and having people resign our leases, so we’re [unintelligible [00:15:37].03] sending out letters of the rental increases…
Joe Fairless: From what to what?
Theo Hicks: All the buildings are two 1-beds and two 2-beds. The 1-beds we’re going from $580 to $685, and we’re two for two with the yes’es. And for the 2-beds we’re going from $750 to $825, and we’re two for two with the yes’es of resigning the leases. And then we sent letters out for the second building, and we’re still waiting responses on that. One person is gonna be leaving, not based off of the rental increase, but based off of other reasons… And then we’re waiting back on three of them.
Then we’re gonna send it to the third building this month, but two of those units are actually vacant, so there’ll only be to two people. Those rental increases are gonna be very helpful now that I’m spending all this money on plumbing, and I’m still catching up on the boilers, so…
Joe Fairless: [laughs] Congrats on that. Are you investing any money into those units in order to increase those rents, or is that just through the market appreciation?
Theo Hicks: Market appreciation.
Joe Fairless: Cool. Congrats on that.
Theo Hicks: Someday… I do know that if I put in granite countertops and new floors, I can demand more rent. It’s just… I could pay for it right now, but I’d much rather just take the $100 increase and the $75 increase and rebuild up the capital so that when it gets turned over again, I can do that and raise the rents even more. Because there are units in the area that are becoming more and more (I guess) luxurious, but not enough for me to comfortable to be one of those second or third people to do it.
Joe Fairless: And sorry if I just interrupted you accidentally; the sound was going in and out, that’s why. I thought you were done, sorry.
Theo Hicks: I’m done now.
Joe Fairless: Alright, fair enough.
Theo Hicks: What about you, Joe?
Joe Fairless: Well, congrats, by the way, on getting those units increased in rent, and selecting a location through research as well as just being fortunate… Probably more so research than fortunate, but there’s still a combination of both, so congrats on that.
And for me – well, Colleen and I just got back from a New York City and Philadelphia trip. We were in New York for a week, and Philadelphia for a couple of days. The purpose of those trips was to meet with investors. I had an investor happy hour in New York City on Friday evening, and it was really cool to hang out with 20, 25, maybe 30 or so investors, and people who I have spoken to but they haven’t invested yet, so it was good that they met other investors in our deals… And I just got to catch up with some people who I have known for a while. That was great.
Then we went to Philadelphia and attended Dave Van Horn’s conference. It was really well put on. I highly recommend going to that next year. MidAtlantic Summit I believe is the name of it, but if you just search “Dave Van Horn Philadelphia conference” it will come up, and I think there’s a way to sign up for next year.
I did a keynote at that conference, met up with some investors as well as some clients in my program, and I had a great time… I’m just really grateful. Some lessons I learned from that conference – I was looking at my notes from my phone… There’s just a couple things that I wanna mention on the podcast. One challenge that I have as I’m growing my business is to scale the business, and J Scott – just a phenomenal person to learn from; if you haven’t come across him, you should.
I think he’s got a website 123flip.com. I’m not sure, but J Scott… I know he has a book actually that is called 1-2-3 Flip! But in the presentation in February at my conference on negotiating – really good; I took a ton of notes there.
In this conference he did a presentation on scaling your business, and that really resonated with me. One of the areas that he focused on was documentation – having the employee document the process. And it’s helpful to scale an organization, because if the process that that individual does is not documented, then as he says, “If you can’t be replaced, then you can’t be promoted.” That’s the approach I take with my team – “I wanna be able to promote you, but I can’t promote you if I can’t replace you, and I can’t replace you if we can’t replicate or get near to what you’re doing with someone else.”
Theo, you’re on my team, so you know how I emailed out a week or so ago about “document your role, what you work on specifically”, because ultimately if I wanna scale the business, then documentation needs to take place, and there needs to be a big ol’ manual so that we can all elevate our game. Initially, I was thinking “I don’t want people to think that we’re documenting it so that when they get fired we have someone new to replace them”, because that’s not the case; it’s more I wanna scale. And when he said the quote “If you can’t be replaced, then you can’t be promoted”, that made sense.
One of my brothers is in the military, he’s a lieutenant colonel in the Army, and he was telling me about their review process, or just their overall approach… When he takes a command — he just came from South Korea, he had command of a battalion, and the whole goal is to be replaceable… And it’s kind of bittersweet initially, because you want to be needed so much that “Oh man, he just left! Oh, we really need him!”, but if that is the case, then you didn’t do your job, because you have to be replaceable, that way the system is stronger.
If the system depends on an individual, then it’s not a business, it’s just interdependent monarchy or something; I don’t know what the hell it is, but it’s not a business. So that’s been one takeaway. Number two is from a raising money standpoint, for anyone looking to find investors, I’ve got two tips for you.
One is a attend self-directed IRA events put on by self-directed IRA companies. I’m at the place now where I don’t need to do that quite frankly, I don’t need to go to those events, but in the early stages of my business, where my podcast wasn’t where it was and we didn’t have the track record that we’ve got now and I was less established, I certainly would have — if I heard a guy or a gal say “Attend self-directed IRA events put on by self-directed IRA companies to reach passive investors”, I’d be googling right now while I’m listening, “self-directed IRA company event conference”, and I’d be going to those… Because those are individuals who have a dairy; they have a self-directed IRA and are looking to invest and do something with it… So they’re already farther along on the education.
So attending those conferences, and the second point on raising money and helping is asking yourself who do you know who comes in contact with a lot of people, and do they know what you do? So think about who do you know who comes in contact with a whole bunch of people – is it an accountant, is it a fitness trainer, is it a coach for a certain team, or whatever? And do they know what you do? Very simple, and kind of obvious, but unless we intentionally put it into practice, we won’t get to the results.
Quite frankly, I haven’t put that into practice. I haven’t even gone through that thoughtful intentional exercise of thinking “Who do I know who comes in contact with a lot of people on a regular basis? Do they exactly know what I do?” I haven’t really done that intentionally. That would be a worthy exercise to do if you’re looking to bring in investors. So those are lessons I learned from the conference.
Theo Hicks: The first one about the self-directed IRA, I remember I went to a REIA meeting down here and we met a guy who owns a self-directed IRA business. [unintelligible [00:23:53].13] he kind of mentioned how he personally is not allowed to give us information about people, but I’m fairly it is a lot different if you’re actually going to a conference and you’re actually going to the people directly, instead of going to a person who is in charge of their self-directed IRAs. I think those people are still a good contact to have, because… And I didn’t fully understand what he was saying, but he was explaining how if you find passive investors and you send them to him, he can help them set up a self-directed IRA, which kind of helps them I guess invest their money better in deals… So I just wanted to mention that, that it’s good to have relationships with people that have self-directed IRAs, but also people that I guess work for self-directed IRA companies, because they can be a good resource for your passive investors.
Joe Fairless: Yeah, absolutely.
Theo Hicks: And then you said you went on your trips to Philly and New York – do you plan on doing kind of like a full American trip by going to all the major cities and meeting up with all your investors?
Joe Fairless: Yes, I plan on doing a full-American trip. I like the way you put that. If you’re watching the video, over my shoulder there is a calendar of all the travels… It looks like I’m going to San Francisco and L.A. in late June, Houston, Dallas, Chicago – they’re all throughout the year. If you’re an investor with me or we’ve had a conversation about potentially investing, then you will be notified in advance of those trips, because we’re doing a get-together for investors. So if you wanna be included and we haven’t had a conversation yet, if you wanna be included on a meetup for accredited investors, then you can go to InvestWithJoe.com, and we’ll get to know each other and then we’ll send you the information on the meetup, so we can hang out and get to know each other even more in person.
Theo Hicks: And then is there a structure to this event, or is it just kind of a happy hour, everyone just chatting it up pretty natural?
Joe Fairless: Yeah, no structure.
Theo Hicks: Okay.
Joe Fairless: My goal is to simply just connect with people, that’s really it – for everyone to enjoy themselves. At the New York City happy hour it was literally — we had an area sectioned off for us, and we just hung out, talked… There was a shuffleboard; I don’t think anyone played shuffleboard, but there were shuffleboards and couches, some music at the bar, and basically I went around and talked to everyone. Frank, my business partner, was not able to attend that one; he had some things come up from a family standpoint, but I think he’s gonna try and attend the L.A. one whenever we do that.
Other than that, yeah, it’s just us hanging out. Colleen will be there, too.
Theo Hicks: Awesome.
Joe Fairless: Sweet. And we launched BestEverCauses.com. I think we did mention that already on a previous podcast… I’ll never tell anyone who to give ever. We all give back in our own unique ways – time, money, whatever… But I do want to highlight causes that are doing good, and there’s not enough days in a year if we highlighted one a day. There’s still not enough time to highlight all the causes that should be highlighted… But we are starting that monthly, so we’re highlighting a cause a month – BestEverCauses.com and you can see the one we highlighted there. You can choose to contribute financially, or not, or you can just choose to read the stuff and get some warm fuzzies in your heart because of some things that other people are doing that are good, helping others.
Theo Hicks: I think that’s great, to provide a resource to investors, because we always talk about giving back… So we’re making it easier to do that, and you can decide whether you want to do that or not. So yeah, I think that’s a noble cause.
Joe Fairless: Sweet.
Theo Hicks: So just to wrap up, make sure you guys join the Best Ever Community on Facebook. You can do that by going to bestevercommunity.com. We post a question each week and run a blog post on it with all of your answers, so you can be featured on the Best Ever Blog.
This week’s question is “How much money do you want or need to retire?” So make sure you guys go to BestEverCommunity.com. That question should be relatively close to the top, so make sure you answer and you will be featured in the blog post.
Joe Fairless: What a different type of answer though between “want” and “need”, right? Like, “How much money do you want/need?” Those are like two completely different directions, I would think. Maybe not. Maybe need equals want for some people; maybe I’m not thinking it the right way. But I would think that a “need” is financial independence, and a “want” is financial abundance.
Theo Hicks: Yeah, there you go. I just like these questions, because it kind of just like sparks — not necessarily creativity, but it makes you think about these things. I mean, of course, as real estate investors, we’re always detailing out what we need to do to get to where we wanna go, but I think these questions are still good thought experiments… And kind of what you said right there – there’s a difference between what I need to retire and what I actually want to retire, so what’s kind of more important… And once I get what I need to retire, will I be able to get to what I want based off of the psychological aspects of being kind of pushed to that because you need it, versus like what you want, and things like that. I just think it’s pretty interesting.
But I agree with what you’re saying about financial independence versus financial abundance. They’re two completely different things for most people, but it could be the same for some.
Joe Fairless: Yeah. And as far as “to retire” part – that’s a whole other conversation; we will not get into it here, but when you retire and you have nothing to do, then you die, statistically, a couple years later…
Theo Hicks: Literally.
Joe Fairless: Yeah, literally and statistically, a couple years later… If you’re male. Females I think live longer; they’re smarter than us. But males, statistically, we die. This is an insurance study, and if Grant can find it somewhere… Tony Robbins talked about it I think in one of his audio series, so good luck finding it… But I’m sure it’s a Google search, too.
Anyway, the point is when we retire – I should have clarified… When we retire and we don’t have anything to do, then statistically we die, as males. But if we retire and have other things to engage us, then we continue to live, all things being equal, so… Sweet.
Theo Hicks: And just to finish it off, please go to iTunes and leave a review. If you do, you have the chance to be featured on this podcast right now. This week’s review of the week is from MGerminator. They said “Plenty of strategies for all” as the title of their review… And the review is:
“Joe’s podcast is to the point on various real estate strategies. Unlike some of the other podcasts, he cuts to the chase and discovers key points and takeaways from each guest. Even better, since it’s a daily podcast, if you don’t like a show, jump to the next one. Nice work, Joe!”
Joe Fairless: Thank you, MGerminator, I really appreciate it. [laughter] Well, thanks everyone for hanging out with us. I’m confident this episode added a lot of value for anyone looking for off-market deals or anyone who’s looking to bring in investors… And that’s pretty much the audience for this podcast, so… Thank you, Theo, and thank you, Whitney, for the concepts and bringing the concepts alive on the web scraping, and thank you Dave Van Horn for hosting your conference and putting together that group of people that you did, so that we can all learn from it.
I hope everyone has a best ever day, and we’ll talk to you tomorrow.