Eric left his 6-figure IT job to pursue real estate full time a few years ago. Now he owns properties and prefers to manage them himself. Today he tells us his best ever tips for managing investment properties. If you enjoyed today’s episode remember to subscribe in iTunes and leave us a review.
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Eric Drenckhahn Real Estate Background:
-A “DIY landlord” who has managed his mid-sized portfolio for years since 2000
–Left his full-time 6-figure IT job to pursue real estate and travel
-Purchased 5 fourplexes and a single-family home, a couple more flips, either as an investor or in the rehab
-Single-family home at a sheriff’s sale that was redeemed away from me.
-Currently focusing on doing a 1031 exchange to a Florida property
-Say hi to him at http://www.nononsenselandlord.com/
-Based in St. Paul, Minnesota
-Best Ever Book: The Art of the Deal
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Joe Fairless: Best Ever listeners, how are you doing? Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Joe Fairless, and this is the world’s longest-running daily real estate investing podcast. We only talk about the best advice ever, we don’t get into any of that fluffy stuff.
With us today, Eric Drenckhahn. How are you doing, Eric?
Eric Drenckhahn: Hey, pretty good. How about yourself?
Joe Fairless: I am pretty good as well, nice to have you on the show. A little bit about Eric – well, all the stuff he owns, he manages himself. He’s a DIY landlord who has managed his mid-sized portfolio for years – actually since 2000. He left his full-time six-figure IT job to pursue real estate and travel. He’s purchased five fourplexes, a single-family home, a couple more flips, either as an investor or doing rehabs on. He is based in Saint Paul, Minnesota, and his website is on the show notes page, so you can just click there and go check it out. With that being said, Eric, do you wanna give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and your current focus?
Eric Drenckhahn: Sure. You were mostly right, I have fourplexes, a couple duplexes, a single-family house, and of course, my own. I just kind of started — I’ve been a landlord since around 2000, and around 2006-2007 I wanted to get some more cashflow, because as much as I like my job, there’s a reason why they call it work, right? Because it’s work, and if it was fun, they would call it fun. So I started looking around 2006-2007, and everything seemed to be too high-priced. Then all of a sudden 2008 came around, and that was the time to buy, so it worked out pretty well.
Joe Fairless: You asked me before we started recording — Samantha, who’s my right-hand person, she told me that you buy some larger stuff, but do you ever buy smaller stuff, and I told you “Yeah, I’ve got three single-family homes”, and then you asked “Are you managing them yourself and doing the maintenance on them?” and my reply was “No. If I was, then they would be in foreclosure right now”, because it would be a trainwreck.
So you do all of this yourself, you take the exact opposite approach as I take… Can you tell us about that?
Eric Drenckhahn: Sure. As a matter of fact, I manage them all. Yesterday we were just installing a kitchen at one of my rentals. It’s a single-family home that I bought, I got it at a pretty good deal. Everything I buy is at a good deal, by the way. The tenants moved out, and now I’m getting ready to sell, because I wanna get out of the city of Saint Paul [unintelligible [00:04:32].09] I was just installing the kitchen, and pretty soon we’re gonna be installing toilets. When I say “we”, it’s really me. That’s what we’re doing. I just got done repainting and [unintelligible [00:04:41].05] and toilets and kitchen sinks and whatever else needs to be done – manage it, get tenants, advertise, screen them, collect the rents if I have to go over there and collect them, evict them if I have to, although I hire a company to evict, but I still kind of handle it up until that.
So I try to do everything, and it probably increases my take-home by at least another 50% or more by doing it that way. Maybe it even doubles my income.
Joe Fairless: What’s your most and least favorite part of doing everything as a DIY landlord?
Eric Drenckhahn: You know, it’s the time, not so much the actual chore. Some things are not as much fun as others, but the fact that now I’ve gotta go do it, instead of just having the money come in… Whereas if I had a property manager, the money would just show up at the first of the month or whenever it does, as opposed to “Oh crap, I’ve gotta show it at six o’clock” and I really had something else going on. I might have been doing nothing other than sitting around, but now I’ve gotta get up and do something. So it’s the part that takes away from your day.
Especially now that I’m not working, it seems like every minute of my day is a lot more important, even though I’m not maybe doing as much important stuff, if that makes sense. It is the idea that “Oh, now I have to go do it.” So that’s really probably the thing that’s miserable.
I’d like to say there’s different chores that are more fun than others, but it’s all kind of about the same. You’ve gotta do it, it’s part of the game. And you’ve gotta do something 24 hours a day, you can’t sleep all day… So it kind of forces me to do some things as well. There’s still gonna be plenty of time to travel, most of the time in the winter when nobody moves out, so most of the winter I can get away… Plenty of things to do now.
Joe Fairless: I think I asked you what’s your most and least favorite thing, right?
Eric Drenckhahn: Yeah.
Joe Fairless: And you told me and the Best Ever listeners the least, but you beat around the bush on the most… So what do you enjoy as being a DIY landlord?
Eric Drenckhahn: You know, I enjoy the people; I enjoy meeting the people, especially — even though I hate to go over there and show a place, once I get there and meet the people, it’s a good social exercise or whatever you wanna call it. It’s a good interaction. Because I do like meeting people and talking to them. If I’m fixing something, I enjoy talking to them while I’m fixing it… And whatever – you know, just being involved in the property. And of course, around the first of the month it’s always an enjoyable time when the rents are coming in.
So I do enjoy that… As much as I say I don’t like to be bothered with — because it’s not so much a scheduled thing. Maybe if I was a little more — I used to manage my time super good, because I had to, because I only had minutes per day to do hours’ worth of work, whereas now I have more time, so I’m probably less efficient… So probably if I manage my time better, these interruptions in my day probably wouldn’t be quite as annoying. It is not really that annoying, but just one of those things that you’ve gotta do, right?
It’s always good when I get to the property and I’m talking to people, and if I’ve gotta fix something, I have all the right tools, and if I don’t, then I can buy them and it’s a tax write-off… So like I said, working on a property is somewhat inconvenient, but it’s a good, satisfying experience when you get done.
Joe Fairless: The interesting thing — my friend Theo, he does an episode with me on Fridays usually, and he used to self-manage his properties; he has three fourplexes, and he was self-managing and now he’s since turned it over to a management company… And the reason why is because he took a look at the hourly rate that he was paying himself to go do this stuff, and he in his case recognized that he wasn’t making a good hourly rate. He saw he could build his portfolio and scale it if he focused his time doing that, versus the on-the-ground stuff in terms of management.
Eric Drenckhahn: Sure.
Joe Fairless: Have you taken a look at that?
Eric Drenckhahn: You know, I have, a little bit. Now, when I was working, I only had a few hours a day to do things, and I was able to do things pretty efficiently. When I’m working, I’m probably saving $30-$50/hour, and if I was able to be able to take that hour and turn it into more than that, it would probably make sense… Because instead of making $30 or $50/hour, I can turn it into $100/hour – that makes sense. And if you can do a deal – whatever a deal is, whether it’s a flip, a rehab, an investment, this or that, you maybe can make that $100/hour. However, there’s a lot of times, especially as a new investor, you’re not taking that hour and turning it into $100/hour, you’re taking that hour and watching TV, right? Or you’re taking that hour and doing your laundry, or you’re taking that hour and doing something.
So especially as a new investor, if you can take an hour and even turn it into $5… Because I get a lot of people that ask me, “Oh, where did you come up with the money for these deals?” I try to do everything myself; I even change my own oil in my vehicle, and certainly that’s cheaper than — not really cheaper, but from a time perspective, a lot of people wouldn’t wanna do that.
But having said that, what else are you gonna do during that hour of the day? If your option is 0$/hour, well, even $5/hour saves you five bucks. So it all depends upon where you’re at in your life and what your true opportunity cost is, because that’s where it is, right? And if you’re not really making deals, if you’re still kind of figuring stuff out, well then maybe it’s good to get some hands-on experience.
Joe Fairless: It completely makes sense, and I knew you had thought through it, given your previous position as an IT professional; I just assumed it, and clearly you have. And I’m just thinking through this, I’m not saying one side is the way to go, I’m just asking questions, so that’s where I’m coming with this next question… You’re not a beginning investor, so it doesn’t sound like you would fit in that category, so why do you continue to do self-management? I imagine if you put your time towards getting more deals, getting access to more money or whatever area is your focus, you could scale it more.
Eric Drenckhahn: You know, you’re probably right, and at some point — I’m 58 years old now; not that that’s super old, but at some point I kind of decided that I have enough to live on pretty comfortably, and I don’t need any more deals. And not to say that if a deal did come along I wouldn’t do it, but I don’t need to scour the bushes.
I even have a real estate license and as my tenants move out, I try to sell them a house, because they’re gonna buy a house anyway, so why not buy it through me? And I could scour the bushes to try to generate more real estate deals, and I could look online to find more other things… And keep in mind, all of my things have been done creatively; I bought mortgages from the bank, I bought houses at sheriff’s sales, I bought contractor deeds and terminated the contract and got the properties and eliminated the IRS liens and did all kinds of crazy — not really crazy, but different, creative things to get properties, and I could certainly keep looking for those deals, but at some point I’d rather just sit on the beach in Florida, and to hell with the deals. I’ve got enough to be able to do that. And that’s where I’m more focusing my efforts. I’m in Minnesota now, but in about three weeks I’ll be heading to Florida for about three months.
Joe Fairless: I don’t blame you. [laughter]
Eric Drenckhahn: And that’s really where my focus is now. So while I’m here at the properties — and you know what, I can take the money from the properties and certainly hire out some of these things, but as much as I hate to be inconvenienced by this stuff, I still like the idea when it’s done, it’s done right, and it keeps me busy… You’ve gotta do something, right? You can’t just sit around. So that kind of forces me to get up and get going on some things.
Like I said, when you look back — because some of these things are in shambles. I mean, when you fix them up, they look like a million bucks. And it’s enjoyable to see that. You’re tearing apart stuff that you’re like, my god, you wonder how this stuff even lasted this long… But you’re putting it in with new materials and the way it’s supposed to be done, rather than the way some guy puts a bunch of stuff together. That’s the part that is kind of alluring, as well.
Joe Fairless: How are you able to spend three months in Florida and still be self-managing?
Eric Drenckhahn: Good question. First of all, I’m in a good area where there’s a cell phone, and I do have a company that I’ve just signed up for; they’re a property management company, or a property maintenance company, so I would say about half the calls that I get from my tenants, I can answer with a text or call. They wanna know something about the property — or I can coach them through a maintenance issue.
And then maybe the other half are things that need to be fixed, but not right away. And then maybe — well, I said the other half; so the third half [laughter] is stuff that needs to be fixed as soon as possible.
Joe Fairless: What’s the last half?
Eric Drenckhahn: Yeah, exactly… The three halves. But I don’t know if it’s a third-third-third, but most of the time — and I’ve been gone up to three weeks, almost four weeks, and been able to handle everything via the phone, or texting, or sometimes I coach tenants how to… One of my worst fixes that I did over the phone was where we had the hot water heater — luckily, it was in the basement, on a cement floor over the floor drain, but the hot water heater (I should say water heater, because they don’t heat hot water) was overflowing from the pressure relief valve… So I was able to coach the tenant how to turn the hot water heater down, so it’s not quite as hot, so that solved it some, and how to flip that lever at the top (the pressure release lever) back and forth a few times so they get it to seal again. Then when I came back a week or two later, then I changed the valve. Now, maybe the valve was still good, I don’t know, but I changed it anyway, because for ten bucks, I can change it (actually, maybe it’s $12).
Had I called a plumber to fix that one, rather than trying to coach the tenant through it, the plumber would have come and it would have been an after-hours call probably, and I don’t know what the part would have cost, but I bet the part was way more than $15, which is — but I think I just paid $12-something… So the part probably would have been $40, and then he would have probably charged $150 or $200 to put it in, so it would have been a $300 fix all day long. In my case, I was able to do it for $15; less than $15. So that’s the kind of thing that if I could do it over the phone, it’s good, right?
I’ve had some where the tenant called me about a torn screen. Well, a torn screen can wait; it can wait a month if it has to. Anyway, he waited until I came back and I fixed the screen. So most of the calls I can handle over the phone as long as I’m within phone or e-mail, and all my documents are on the Google Cloud, so I can access anything and I back-up every day to there, so… I store my documents local, but then every day they get backed up there, and before I leave, I make sure they’re all up there.
So any of my documents, whether it’s a tax document, a property document, a lease or whatever – it’s in there; it’s obviously in the cloud, you know, Gmail. So I have access to everything I need with my laptop, so I don’t need any documents, and of course, the phone is there to call the tenants, and if I really have to, I can call a company or I can call this property maintenance company that I just kind of signed up for… And all my keys are at the property, so people can get into wherever they need. That’s how I’m able to do it — thus far, and I’m knocking on wood as we speak.
Joe Fairless: Yeah, I’ll knock on wood with you. My desk is wood. Fake wood, I think; I’ll knock on it. Alright, let’s switch gears to the creative acquisitions that you’ve done. Can you tell us a story of one of them?
Eric Drenckhahn: Sure. One that I just recently did – and it was a little more creative than some… I’ve done short sales and bought them at sheriff’s sales and things like that, and all you’ve gotta do is show up and do it, so they’re not really any rocket science… But this one is a little more creative. So what I did… And my tenants actually called me and they said — and here’s a reason why you wanna make sure that everybody knows that you’re a property investor and you’re in real estate, because people will call you when there’s a deal. Maybe.
So they call me and they say “My parents are looking to sell their house… Are you interested in buying a house?” and I said, “Sure, I’m always interested if the price is right.” I’m not interested in buying some house at some price that somebody tried to sell it for six months, they couldn’t sell it and now they want me to buy it at that price… But having said that, I said “Sure, I’ll take a look at it.”
So we took a look at it, and it was a property in Saint Paul, not the greatest area, but not terrible. They bought it for (I’ll just throw some number out there) for $60,000 in 2012, and this is three years later. So I think it’s worth at least $60,000, right? If they paid 60k, three years later – properties went up since 2012… And Zillow said it was worth 100k, and in the property tax files it was worth about 75k, so I’m thinking it’s gotta be worth at least 60k… So they say “Look, all we want is 45k for it.” I think, “Geez, that’s a pretty good deal.” “And the only condition is we’ll either rent back from you, or let us live in here six months for free so we can move out, and then it’s yours.” I said, “Well, that’s a pretty good deal.” So then I made the deal for 45k.
Joe Fairless: Which option did you pick?
Eric Drenckhahn: I just bought it from them directly; it is what I was gonna do.
Joe Fairless: Didn’t they ask in addition to 45k “We wanna either rent it back from you or live in it for six months for free?”
Eric Drenckhahn: That’s true, yeah; I hadn’t really gotten to that part yet.
Joe Fairless: Okay, got it. Alright, I’ll shut up.
Eric Drenckhahn: That’s fine. The way I was gonna do it – let them keep renting forever…
Joe Fairless: Sure.
Eric Drenckhahn: …because I’m a landlord, it doesn’t matter. So then I sent everything to the title company, and the title company comes back and says “Look, we can pay off the underlying contract for deed of 38k, but what are we gonna do with this $25,000 IRS lien?” And I said, “Well, geez, that’s a good question, what are we gonna do with it? It’s no longer a deal, I don’t want it.”
So then I call the owners and I say “Look, we can’t do it, because there’s a $25,000 deal. However, I’ll contact the contract for deed owner and see what I can work out.” So I contacted him, and talking to him he mentioned “Why not just buy it from me?” So I bought the contract for deed from him, and I paid him 38k (and change) at that point. He assigned the contract for deed to me; just the assignment, it’s pretty simple. Then we canceled the contract for deed, because the tenants (or the owners, whatever you wanna call them) did not pay the balloon payment… And that’s why they were selling, right? They bought it on a contract for deed for 60k, they paid it down to 38k, and they couldn’t make the $38,000 balloon payment because they had bad credit and no money…
The IRS lien, when you cancel a contract for deed, because the monthly wasn’t being met or the balloon payment wasn’t being met, the IRS lien that is on the property really isn’t on the property, it’s on the owner’s equity in the property. So when you extinguish the contract for deed, you also extinguish the equity which then the IRS lien gets off the property — it still stays with them, because it’s an income tax lien… If it was an actual property tax lien, that’s different; that stays with the property. But because it’s an income tax lien, then that goes off the property, and I picked up this property instead of 45k, now I get it for 38k and change.
So it was a better deal, and then I explained to them that they can live here for a few months. It takes about three months to cancel a contract for deed, so I let them live there for three months, because I kind of had to; it wasn’t really my property yet. But I did tell them “I’ll give you three or four months of free living, and then we’ll start charging rent.” And they were fine with it. They lived there a little over a year, a year and a half, give or take, and then they couldn’t afford that either. And I was just charging basically what they were paying in their contract for deed payment, and they paid every month on time for about a year and a half, and then they decided they needed to move out.
Now I’m rehabbing it, and then we’re gonna get rid of it and probably sell it for around 160k.
Joe Fairless: Wow. How much are you putting into it?
Eric Drenckhahn: I’m gonna put in some windows for about maybe 14k; a lot of labor, and it’s probably gonna be maybe 10k with the other materials that I’m doing, and a lot of labor… So I picked it up for, let’s say 40k, because I did hire an electrician right after I bought it to change the fuses to circuit breakers. So 40k plus (let’s say) 15k for windows – that brings it up to 55k. And let’s say another 15k, which brings it up to 70k, but I’m gonna sell it for 140k to 160k. Because Zillow said now it’s worth about 145k, and in the spring things will go up, and it’s gonna look like a million bucks when I get done – brand new kitchen, brand new bathroom, and it’s gonna be clean, new carpet upstairs – I’m gonna use a laminate vinyl plank for the main floor… So it’s gonna look like a million bucks when I get done.
Joe Fairless: Why are you deciding to take this approach and sell it, versus hold on to it long-term?
Eric Drenckhahn: You know, it’s in the city of Saint Paul, which the city of Saint Paul it’s a little bit of a pain to deal with. You’ve gotta get the rental licenses…
So I bought it from two elderly people. When I say elderly – the guy was like 62 and she was a little bit less, but he had already had a kidney transplant and he was in rough shape, and they didn’t wanna go up and downstairs, so in the downstairs room they had a bed. And the city of Saint Paul comes in under annual inspection and they say “You can’t have a bed in that room.” And they don’t wanna go all the way up the stairs to the bedroom… And then you start looking at the bedrooms upstairs, if I did have beds in there… And you know, some of the windows might be a little small… Because the house was built in 1885, right? This ain’t a new house.
So some of the stuff isn’t designed from an egress standpoint, so I think what would happen is if I started renting it out, then all of a sudden you’d have inspections and they’d say “Oh, you can’t have a bed in that room”, and then pretty soon… I mean, the house is old; all the windows are small. Maybe it’s got zero bedrooms when it comes down to it, I don’t know. But I think if I just sell it, then I don’t have to deal with the inspections of Saint Paul, and who’s gonna be in what room… Plus, then I’m gonna do a 1031 I believe and buy a property in Florida.
Joe Fairless: Are your other properties not in Saint Paul?
Eric Drenckhahn: My other properties are not in Saint Paul, you are correct. That’s the only one. And it was kind of a one-off, but it sounded like a good deal, and I still think it is, and we’ll find out when it actually sells… But having said that, when you bought a house for (say) 40k, you’re gonna sell it 2-3 years later for 140k at least – I think that’s a good deal.
Joe Fairless: Based on your experience as a DIY landlord and someone who has shown tremendous resourcefulness in putting deals together, what is your best real estate investing advice ever?
Eric Drenckhahn: You mean what I could give to somebody else?
Joe Fairless: Yes, sir.
Eric Drenckhahn: Okay, so I would say this… First of all, every property can be a deal at the right price. You’ve gotta figure out how to get it at that price. Secondly, I don’t think there’s an investor ever that bought a property that wasn’t nervous about it. So if you’re nervous about a property, it’s right; you’re gonna be. Don’t be afraid, because they’re all nervous.
My very first one I bought, I had to come up with a mortgage that was double my house mortgage. I was like “Holy crap!” But it takes guts, right? Because the real estate game – there’s a ton of money in it, but that’s because there’s a ton of risk. You’ve gotta understand your risk, understand the risk mitigation processes. If you get into a property, how can you get out of it, if you have to? Can you dump it and just lose a few grand maybe on a commission, or are you gonna be way underwater? Because if you’re way underwater, don’t do it.
I know you’ve bought a lot of properties too, and I know you’ve weighed the risk on all of them. I get that all the time – people come to me and sometimes they’ll say “Oh, if you can find a property where I can make a quick 50k on, let me know.” Well, first of all, there’s no property like that… Because if there is, I’m buying it; I’m not giving it to you.
But there’s all kinds of properties you can make 50k on, but it ain’t right now, and it’s gonna be risky. You may have to buy it for 100k, put 50k into it and then make another 50k, but it’s not buy it for 100k and sell it for 150k the next day. There’s pretty much no such thing.
Joe Fairless: Are you ready for the Best Ever Lightning Round?
Eric Drenckhahn: Sure. Do you want me to tell you one more story about buying a good property?
Joe Fairless: I’d love to hear that second story, yes. Go ahead, let’s hear it.
Eric Drenckhahn: Okay. So we bought another property – now this one I did go in with a partner. The property was built in 2005, sold for 245k back then, and it was going for sale at sheriff’s sale for like 130k, but we needed to be the third lien holder; the first lien holder was in for about 130k, the second lien holder was in for 60, and we were gonna be the third lien holder, which we would have had to buy out both of them. But to become a lien holder, we gave the owner $4,000 to have a $150 mechanic’s lien on the property; that gets us a lien holder position. Then at the sheriff’s sale what happens is the first lien holder is already in, the second lien holder can buy out the first, or forever hold their cards. They did not jump into it. Us as the third lien holder – you know, with a $4,000 gamble, we bought the property for 130k, we eventually sold it (when I say “eventually”, I mean three weeks later) for 200k.
Joe Fairless: Wow.
Eric Drenckhahn: We put about 15k into it, including the 4k. So you’ve gotta understand foreclosures and you’ve gotta understand how liens work on some of these things… And you’ve gotta take some risk, because we took a $4,000 risk. But anyway, that was that property.
Joe Fairless: Thank you for telling that story, and yes, that is in my opinion real estate 2.0. You’ve gotta be an expert in a couple different areas. Are you ready for the Best Ever Lightning Round?
Eric Drenckhahn: Sure. Best Ever Lightning Round, go head!
Joe Fairless: Alright, I will go ahead, we will go ahead, but first, a quick word from our Best Ever partners.
Break: [00:25:07].12] to [00:25:58].19]
Joe Fairless: Okay, best ever book you’ve read?
Eric Drenckhahn: Best ever book – I’ve read The Art Of The Deal by Trump. That was a pretty good book, I thought, about how to make things happen. I do a lot more periodicals and web stuff. Dave Lindahl has some good stuff. I bought his kit one time, and that had a tremendous amount of information. But I don’t really read a whole lot of books.
There’s a book by Peter Lynch, I can’t remember, but that was a really good book, too… More about investing than real estate.
Joe Fairless: Best ever deal you’ve done?
Eric Drenckhahn: Best ever deal I did – that was probably the one that I just told you about, where we put the mechanic’s lien on the property. We picked it up, we spent three weeks’ worth of work, and at the end we each made about 27k.
Joe Fairless: What’s a mistake you’ve made on a transaction?
Eric Drenckhahn: Good question, because I’m usually pretty good, but a lot of times you buy a property — probably more so I made a lot of mistakes on tenants, you could say that… But now I’m a little sharper on tenants, and it seems like that’s what happens – you get smarter with age or smarter with… Every bad tenant teaches you. But I used to be a section 8 landlord; I used to buy properties and I had section 8 tenants, and to be honest, that was not — you know, it wasn’t so much the section 8 program, it’s the quality of the tenants. So you’ve gotta understand tenant quality if you’re gonna be a landlord. If you do that, you won’t have a problem.
Joe Fairless: How can the Best Ever listeners get in touch with you?
Eric Drenckhahn: They can get a hold of me on my blog, which is nononsenselandlord.com. Once again, all the contact information is there, and feel free to drop me an e-mail from there. If you want to call, usually when I reply back with my e-mail, all my contact information is there – my phone number, e-mail address, whatever. Feel free. I can leave my phone number here if you want.
Joe Fairless: Sure. What is it?
Eric Drenckhahn: 651-283-7651. You can text me first if you want.
Joe Fairless: Cool. Well, Eric, thank you for being on the show and talking to us about lessons learned and your approach as a do-it-yourself landlord. The opportunity cost as you see things for doing it versus hiring out, how you have brought on team members, how you were able to go to Florida for three months during the Minnesota winter, and still have the money coming in every month, and addressing the majority of the maintenance requests or the calls and inquiries that you get from your residents.
Really interesting to talk about that, as well as the creative acquisition approach that you’ve taken, and multiple deals, and you walked us through or talked us through the IRS lien, as well as the sheriff’s sale… So thanks for being on the show, my friend. I hope you have a best ever day, and we’ll talk to you soon.
Eric Drenckhahn: Okay, thank you so much, Joe. Take care.