February 5, 2018

JF1252: Leveraging A Partnership For 80+ Cash Flowing Properties with Jeff Schechter & Jack Gibson

Jack and Jeff are able to run a more efficient business by leveraging each others’ strengths. With over 80 properties that all cash flow really well, safe to say this has been a lucrative partnership. They’ll tell us a lot of details about their business that can help all of us learn how a larger scale real estate business runs. If you enjoyed today’s episode remember to subscribe in iTunes and leave us a review!

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Jeff Schechter & Jack Gibson Backgrounds:

Co-founders of High Return Real Estate

-Have over 80+ turnkey properties that are producing outstanding monthly cash flow returns.

-Each the processes of high return investments that you can’t secure through traditional sources

-Jack ran a successful multi-million dollar company before he was old enough to rent a car.

-Say hi to them at https://highreturnrealestate.com

-Based in Indianapolis, Indiana

-Best Ever Book: Rich Dad, Poor Dad

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Joe Fairless: Best Ever listeners, how are you doing? Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Joe Fairless, and this is the world’s longest-running daily real estate investing podcast. We only talk about the best advice ever, we don’t get into any of that fluffy stuff.

With us today, Jeff Schechter and Jack Gibson. How are you two doing?

Jack Gibson: Doing great, thanks for having us, Joe.

Jeff Schechter: Excellent.

Joe Fairless: Yeah, my pleasure, nice to have you both on the show. Jeff and Jack are the co-founders of High Return Real Estate. They also have a podcast, which is called The High Return Real Estate Show. Their business is turnkey investing. They have a turnkey investing company. And personally, they combined own over 80 turnkey properties that are producing monthly income, and that’s what we’re gonna be talking about today. Based in Indianapolis, Indiana. With that being said, do you two wanna give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and your current focus?

Jack Gibson: Sure, so I’ll start with that. I got started in business about 20 years ago, I started in a network marketing health and nutrition company while I was going to college. I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. Built that business up, and about two or three years in I started reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and a lot of other Kiyosaki books and got the vision for real estate, but unfortunately didn’t have any cash or any real desire to do it right then, so I put it on the backburner, and then about three years ago my stocks dropped like a rock and I said to myself “I’m not going to live the rest of my life on the whims and the ups and downs of the stock market.” In one fell swoop I could get 50% of my equity wiped out.

Joe Fairless: Crazy.

Jack Gibson: Yeah. So I started listening to podcasts just like this, Joe, every morning at the gym, an hour at a time, for 90 straight days, and I’d learned so much so fast that I just jumped in, started buying up. I made some buying mistakes, but thankfully I had the cashflow position from my other business to weather that storm. Then I stumbled upon a great turnkey company and started buying up in Indianapolis, got fantastic returns, and then learned enough to take on my own business. That’s when I brought Schecky in.

He’s a digital marketing master, he is very organized and has a completely different skillset than mine, so we’ve really for the last year and a half formed a great partnership, friendship, and we just play back and forth and really work well. We know what our lane is and we try and stay in our own lane, so that we have an effective operation. Schecky, I’ll turn it over to you.

Jeff Schechter: Thanks so much. Like Jack, I’ve been an entrepreneur my whole life, I have done a whole bunch of different things, and as Jack mentioned, I’m pretty well entrenched in the digital marketing space. Jack and I met because I was doing some consulting for him in another business [unintelligible [00:05:01].01] friendship. He had found out that I had done some flipping back in the old days, ’05, ’06, ’07, before that previous crash, and I was doing some things that obviously I would never do today, but pretty much got my ass handed to me back then, and swore that I would never do real estate investing again… But it’s in my blood, and after some great conversations with Jack and seeing some of the stuff that was going on in Indi, we just felt like a) we wanted to dive in, but that we could also build a better mousetrap, so here we are.

Joe Fairless: Jack, you mentioned you made some buying mistakes, but you had some cashflow from your business at the time that allowed you to recover… What are some of those mistakes that you wouldn’t make again?

Jack Gibson: We talk about it on our show all the time – probably the top two mistakes that most new investors make are paying too much for a property, because they’re anxious, they wanna get into the game too quick. That was me. I didn’t do enough scouting out properties, analyzing deals, looking at what’s really going on in the market… And then the other thing is I didn’t factor in enough deferred maintenance. I bought an 11-unit property and took the property manager’s word that they really didn’t need much. Well, not much turned into $60,000 in unexpected–

Joe Fairless: That’s a lot!

Jack Gibson: Yes, yes! We pretty much had to redo every single unit to the tune of several thousand each. So it just taught me a lot about just “Pay trust, but verify.” So we’ve definitely learned to really put cap-ex into the equation.

The great thing about that property too is that even though it was a buying mistake, it’s turned out to be really good actually, and I just had to weather the storm and fix everything up, get new property management in place, and now it’s a very, very nice cash-flowing property.

I think that investors, in my opinion, if they buy too thin, not enough cash reserves, they can definitely get in trouble. And thankfully, I had cash reserves, cashflow from the other business, so then I made a mistake, I could weather that storm and turn it around. I learned a lot, and also I’m happy I still have that property.

Joe Fairless: Is there a formula that we can use to factor in cash reserves when analyzing a home?

Jack Gibson: That’s a great idea. I’m not that analytical, so I don’t really have a formula… I don’t know, Schecky, do you have one?

Joe Fairless: Or an amount, or something… If you’re looking at a property, how do you think about how much cash reserves you should have for that particular property?

Jack Gibson: Well, I think if the property has been recently rehabbed and all the major cap-ex items are taken care of – fixed plumbing and updated electrical and new roof, or roof’s been put to the test where it can go for ten years or so, I think we’re fine with 5% of total rents as far as the maintenance. I think if you really wanna be conservative, go with 10%. So it just depends if the property has been rehabbed recently and what all has been done to it as far as how conservative you wanna be. That’s obviously investor preference, but I’m very comfortable with 5%.

Joe Fairless: That’s helpful, there you go. The other question I have on the follow-up is you mentioned the $60,000 deferred maintenance that you didn’t think existed but did exist… How do you determine how much deferred maintenance there is, now that you’ve learned that lesson – as we all have, to some extent – and you’re looking at a deal? What do you do?

Jack Gibson: Well, we’ve got a really good head of rehab, Antonio. He goes in and scopes every single property before we buy, or even before we consider putting an offer in. He’s a lot more talented than Schecky and I are in that department. So you wanna put the right people on your team, put them in the right position to be successful, and let them utilize their talents and their skills to make the whole team successful. Our operation is 100% team effort.

He goes in every single property, he’s looking at everything possible that could go wrong, and then even then, budgeting a few thousand extra in case he missed something that he just couldn’t see in the first initial go-around. We’ve got scopes where he’ll come in and say “Look, this is great. It’s rent-ready, it needs $1,000.” And then we’ll buy properties where they need $30,000-$35,000, complete gut job, meaning everything brand new, and then everything in-between.

So we really rely on his expertise to be able to give us that “What are we looking at here?” to bring this property to where it’s gonna be bulletproof for the next 5, 10 years plus.

Joe Fairless: Is your business model that you find property that you can add that value and maybe put in a tenant and then sell it to an investor who’s looking for a turnkey property?

Jack Gibson: Sure, so we have two models, Joe. The one which I much prefer – it’s a lot less stressful – is what you’ve just said… Buy the property at a steep discount because nobody else wants to take it on; it’s dilapidated and it needs a serious cash injection. So we’ll scoop it up at a discount and then we’ll send Antonio in, and then he runs the appropriate crews for that project. We’ve got crews that really are best for big rehab, gut job type project, and then we’ve got crews that are better suited for a small two, three thousand tenant turnover.

So he’ll send the crews  in, get the property to where it’s rent-ready, and then we turn it over to property management, they’ll put a tenant in place, and then we sell it. That’s what a lot of people on the forums consider turnkey, right? I like that a lot better, because there’s never an investor saying “Okay, why is this delayed? Why is it not done yet?” I just don’t enjoy those texts, Joe. It’s not something I wanna see. Or “Why wasn’t a tenant placed yesterday? There should be a tenant in by now; I’ve owned this for three weeks.” Well, we’re vetting tenants, we’re trying to get the right people in. We don’t wanna take on somebody that we’re gonna have to evict in three or four months, so we’re trying to vet your tenants.

That whole process of explaining how to be patient – I just don’t really enjoy it. But the thing is it doesn’t always work that way. In a perfect world it would work that way, and that’s all we would serve up. But the timing of when the investor is ready to buy and what projects we have available – it doesn’t always match up where there’s turnkey available.

If you talk to us right now at this moment, we don’t have anything turnkey, ready to go, and we’ve got investors that are ready to buy. So we would offer them a discount, depending on how long and how much they have to wait for their project to be done, and we’re still doing all the same things that we would do to bring a project to turnkey, rent-ready or [unintelligible [00:11:59].02] They’re just buying a lot earlier in the process, and then we’re still running the whole show, we’re still doing everything. All we ask for them is patience, so we really make sure with those types of projects that the investor is patient; that’s the biggest thing, we need their patience. We don’t need them on top of us every week, asking when it’s gonna be done. That’s just not worth doing the deal, and then I need to charge some kind of extra tax, annoyance tax on top of that price to be able to make up for that. [laughter]

Joe Fairless: Psychiatrist tax…

Jack Gibson: Yes! Actually, I’m going to counseling right now, for certain people… [laughter]

Joe Fairless: Well, you mentioned two ways, but really it’s one business model, just where in the process does the investor come in, and that is dependent on the inventory that you have available and the quickness that the investor wants to invest.

Jack Gibson: Exactly. And there’s a lot of clients — we have one in particular that he wants all the pre-rehab type projects, because he wants everything to be totally brand new. He wants those 20k-30k rehab projects where we’re replacing electrical, plumbing, roof, drywall, everything is being vetted, and they’re willing to wait, because they’ve got a lot of cash sitting in the bank anyways, not making any money. So for them, they’re more concerned with what’s the deferred maintenance and the cap-ex five or ten years from now, “We want everything brand new.”

Then I get another investor closing on three today, and everything I serve up to him – if there’s not a tenant in place, or the lease that he can see and everything just perfect, he doesn’t want it. So it’s just totally different perspectives and tastes from the investors, and we’ll try to accommodate them based on where they’re at.

Joe Fairless: From an income stream standpoint for your company – and I’ve come up with three ways, but let me know if these aren’t correct or if there are additional ones… One is the sale of the property to the investor, from what you’ve bought it for, plus the rehab costs, and then what they buy it for – whatever that difference is, that’s one profit. Two would be the management of the property, which I doubt is much at all. And three is  maybe construction fees for actually doing the rehab, if they invest earlier on in the process. Did I summarize those correctly, or is there anything you wanna add or remove?

Jack Gibson: Well, actually our model is just one source. We make money on the sale. We pretty much run the construction at whatever cost that it is for us. I guess you could look at it as we’re making money on the sale and then we’re making part of the money on the construction or whatever, but it’s not how I think of it. I get my quote from our crews, and then I’m taking that number and just passing it on to the investor, that cost, and then we’re just trying to make an appropriate margin so we can keep our operation going and funded, and Schecky can be happy and I’m happy and the whole team is happy.

Management – we don’t make any money on that either. We turn it over — we have two or three different management companies that we utilize. We did have an in-house model at one point, Joe, but we much prefer just to put the professionals in their lane and let them take over once everything’s ready, and that’s worked very well for our investors. Schecky, I don’t wanna do all the talking – do you wanna add anything to that?

Jeff Schechter: Yeah, I think that the biggest issue there and the big value-add for the investors obviously is because of the economies of scale. Because we’re running all that stuff at our own cost and because we’re doing so many projects at one time, even with our markup, it’s extremely attractive to the investor to be able to buy a property at a very fair price, but the model is such that all along the way – from the buy, to the rehab, to the management, everything is… We’re focused on a lot of different numbers, but the main number that we’re really focused on is “How is this thing gonna ROI for the investor?”

So no matter really what the final cost is there, it’s really just “Can that investor plug into this situation where they can make high returns?”, hence the name of our company.

Joe Fairless: Right. What’s the ROI that you look for at minimum, net to the investor?

Jack Gibson: Nothing under 10%. You can chime in as well, Schecky. At a minimum, we wanna live up to our name, High Return Real Estate. So there are deals where we really don’t make any money, because we don’t wanna sell the property where the end investor is not making at least a double-digit net return. That model has been very successful for us. We’ve done very, very well, so it’s really a volume model, Joe. We’re really just trying to make sure that the end investor is sever at all times, that they’re getting a great ROI. I have investors that are up to 20% net. It has happened, and we do have them right now. Can I duplicate that all the time? No way. Those are definitely home runs; they’ve maybe got a quad or something that has just really stayed with a really low vacancy… But we’re trying to get to that 10%-15%. The sweet spot I think is the 12%-14% cap rates.

Joe Fairless: When you had your management company initially under your own roof, and then you decided to move it out to other companies that are doing it full-time and completely focused on it, what was an issue? Because clearly there was an issue that came up where you decided, “This just isn’t our thing. We’d rather focus on what we have been focusing on, not on the management side.” So what issue/issues came up?

Jack Gibson: Great question. When I initially started buying in Indianapolis, the turnkey provider that I bought from was awesome. I was getting great returns and great service from him, and I started referring a lot of friends, family, colleagues, and I generated something like 5-6 million just off my network, sending people in as referrals. That’s when I decided “Wow, I’ve got a business here.” So I asked them, I said “Can we make money together? Can I partner with you?” So then we formed a partnership where I was marketing and he was doing all the acquisitions and the property management… So in a sense, it was an in-house system. I wasn’t doing it, but our company together was in-house.

Well, then he started scaling up so much from other people that were marketing for him that the quality of the service and the communication just started deteriorating to a point where Schecky and I just said, “Look, this isn’t serving our investors, this is too stressful for us. We’ve gotta take on our own operation, and unfortunately part ways.” I’m very loyal, so that was a very difficult situation for me and Schecky to coach me through it for a good couple months, and definitely counseling was involved, paid and otherwise. [laughs]

Then when we started our own company together, that’s when we vetted out several different property management companies in the area, and we feel very good and we monitor everything that they’re doing. In fact, in our Buildium account we can look at all of the properties that are under management that we’ve sold, and we can see everything – what the rents are, what their expenses are… So if somebody gets in where they’re not doing that well, then we can swoop in and figure out “What do we need to do to make this work for them?” Schecky, I know you needed to add something there.

Jeff Schechter: Yeah, it’s interesting, because there seems to be a general consensus among people that look at turnkey operations and it’s assumed that it would make good sense for the turnkey company to also own and run the property management company. But just to pun an asterisk on what Jack said, what we found is that it’s really too easy for mistakes – and I’m talking also about rehab mistakes, too – to be easily hidden when the property management company is the same company. So even though that’s kind of the mantra, like when you get into some of these real estate forums, we get that question so often – “Why aren’t you guys running your own property management company?” Because we found from experience that that formula actually did not serve us, nor did it serve our investors.

The relationships that we have with a couple PM companies that we currently use — obviously, we certainly insist on transparency and investors being able to log on to online portals, being able to see all the activity, but the other thing that we really use them for is to keep us honest. So when we get done rehabbing a property, we ask another party to come in and go hey look, we’re saying it’s rent-ready, okay? But can we get another set of eyeballs on this that is representing going out and marketing to renters to say “Yes indeed, this is rent-ready.” And to be truthful, we found obviously there were a couple of situations where we said “Hey, this needs a little cleanup [unintelligible [00:20:53].23]” I mean, there are typically no big deals, but it’s really great to have this other company keep us honest, keeps us on our toes, and there’s no question that the end investor is far better served by this kind of formula.

Joe Fairless: Yeah, that’s interesting. I hadn’t thought of it that way, I’m glad that you mentioned that. Which one of you primarily speaks to potential investors? Who has those conversations?

Jack Gibson: Well, Schecky’s on the ground in Indianapolis, so he’s doing all of our investor tours. Whenever somebody wants to come to town and look at the properties and go in them and feel great about actually seeing our operation and meeting our teams. So he’s really good at the tours. For a while there he had a pretty terrible streak, so we were joking around with Schecky… [laughter] He really needed to upgrade his skills, but that wasn’t it; he’s awesome, and he treats people so well when they come into town.

I do a lot of the acquisitions as far as figuring out what we’re buying, and pricing and all that. Typically, Nicole – she started off as an investor with me, and now she’s our investor liaison. So she has the first conversations with the investors to see “Are they curious or are they serious?” and then once she establishes that they are serious on moving forward, then the next step is usually to come to me, so I can match them up with the appropriate acquisition and so on. So we both [unintelligible [00:22:16].18] in different ways.

Joe Fairless: Whoever wants to answer this question, answer it… What’s the toughest question that a potential investor has prior to — well, obviously, there are potential, so they haven’t invested yet… What’s a really tough question that they can ask your team?

Jack Gibson: Want that one, Schecky?

Jeff Schechter: Well, I can tell you one that we get the most often is “Why do you not accept financing?”

Jack Gibson: Oh, yeah. There you go. Yup.

Jeff Schechter: We sell all of our properties for cash, and we do that because we’re in lower-priced properties. The point of entry is very low for our properties. We’re typically in B and C-class properties in a metropolitan area that’s really great for investing. You can get a lot for $50,000 or $60,000 in this town. And what we’ve found is because of the volume that we’re doing, when we wait around for appraisals that may or may not be consistent, it just really gums up the whole sales process.

When we first started out and we did accept financing, it’s just like we would write up a lot of deals, and there was a big percentage of them that never closed, not because they weren’t real deals, but just because we were waiting too long to get answers back from their lender, and dealing back and forth between what the true appraised value is, things like that.

When you go cash, as you know, Joe, we can just move forward, close quickly, everybody wins. When we look on our website, our properties are prices accordingly that it’s assumed that it’s gonna close quickly and pay cash. So we’ve already put that good discount upfront for those people, just to make that transition very smooth.

Jack Gibson: To add something to that, I was just on a forum where these people were kind of piping in and saying that it’s a huge red flag if they won’t accept financing. Look, I’ve done financing deals. I’ve put together a $600,000 finance deal last year, and it was miserable. Absolutely I was miserable, I was stressed out, my wife was probably — wanted to get a big D from me… And I just said “You know what, I’m doing this partly for a serious business, yes, partly for fun, I wanna enjoy what I’m doing… This is not enjoyable, to work with these lenders and these banks and all the hoops that they make me jump through, and the delays, and then the investor can back out pretty much at any time… I just don’t like it.”

So it’s pretty much preference. We wanna deal with cash, and I don’t see how that’s a red flag. We definitely try to set up investor for a cash-out refinance on the backend. We’ve had a lot of them that have done that very successfully and gotten great appraisals on the backend, and we encourage them to do that. That’s how I did mine and it worked great. I got all my cash back out, because I was able to get really great appraisals. So I just wanted to throw that in there as well…

Joe Fairless: What is your best real estate investing advice ever?

Jack Gibson: Wow. Go ahead, Schecky. Let me think for a second.

Jeff Schechter: Well, I’m a little biased, but I would say — again, as a qualifier, if you’re a buy and hold investor, then find a good turnkey company to work with. We have people who come to town and they’ll say “I wanna get a team together. I’m gonna rehab, I’m gonna do this”, but a good turnkey company like us – and yeah, I’ll brag for a minute, but we’ve got all these processes in place. We work with all the wholesalers, we go to all the tax sales, we buy right, we know the town really well, we’ve got great crews, we have incredible economy of scales, and I’m not saying it to sound snotty, but we can pretty much do a better job than any individual investor can do on his own accord.

So that would be the best advice – if you’re gonna do buy and hold, then find a really good turnkey company that you can work with.

Joe Fairless: The flipside of that point though – and I’m sure you’ve heard this – is that as real estate investors, if we add value and not a turnkey company, then we’re getting that equity, versus paying the premium that a turnkey company typically charges, therefore it would be faster, assuming things go according to plan, to do a cash-out refinance and continue to have that snowball approach.

Jack Gibson: That’s absolutely true and there’s a valid argument for that, Joe. For those that really wanna be active investors and they wanna go out and go to the tax sales an share of sales, and analyze a ton of properties to figure out what’s going on, “Is this a good deal? Is it not?” Probably for them, they really wanna get their hands dirty and get into the mix and create that forced appreciation themselves – sure.

I think for the bulk of investors that are out there, they don’t have the time and the skillset and the ability, or pretty much probably the biggest thing – they just don’t have that desire to go out and do all that heavy-lifting to save potentially a few thousand dollars of course in equity; we know that. But they don’t have it in them to be able to go out and do that, and for me — I mean, I know that’s an expensive lesson when you first start off. Those are the mistakes I made, because I was that beginning investor that was trying to be active, but I really didn’t have that much time when I first started (very active with my other business) and I didn’t have the knowledge. I paid the price for the mistakes, 60k+ and then some other properties as well that didn’t go all that well.

Joe Fairless: Got it.

Jeff Schechter: And I think that argument is good depending on the market that you’re in. To give you a good example, in Indi, where prices are really reasonable, if somebody was gonna go in and do their own rehab, maybe they save 8k or 10k or 12k off of what they could buy the property from us for. I mean, I think that’s a fair number in this market. If they hypothetically bought a duplex from us that’s cash-flowing at over $1,000 a month, you’re talking about 8 or 10 months of rent. If they take 8 or 10 months to do that rehab, it’s kind of awash. So I think that argument is really valid if you’re in more expensive areas where there’s opportunity to create a lot more forced appreciation, but along with that comes the greater risk in those more expensive markets. I just think it depends on what your tolerance is for that kind of stuff.

Joe Fairless: Yeah, good point. I appreciate you following up with that. Alright, we’ve gotta do a lightning round, and in fact it’s not just any lightning round, it’s the Best Ever Lightning Round. Are you two ready?

Jack Gibson: I always want the best. Throw it at us, let’s go!

Joe Fairless: Alright, great. First though, a quick word from our Best Ever partners.

Break: [00:28:43].09] to [00:29:30].27]

Joe Fairless: Okay, best ever book you’ve read?

Jack Gibson: It has to be Rich Dad, Poor Dad. That got me started.

Joe Fairless: Best ever deal you’ve done that’s not the first one or your last one. Something in between.

Jack Gibson: Oh, man… This is the Lightning Round, the pressure is on… I can’t think of anything, because there’s nothing where I’ve made a huge hit. I think everything’s pretty consistent, Joe; I don’t have one in mind. Schecky, do you have anything? No? Okay…

Joe Fairless: Just pick one deal and what are the numbers on one deal, how about that?

Jack Gibson: There was an 8-unit that I bought for — I think I was on for 45k, because I threw a lot of referrals at him, instead of taking a commission… Probably my cost was like 60k, and ended up selling it for 100k.

Joe Fairless: You sold it for 100k — why did you keep that 8-unit? You were all in for 45k, why not just keep that, rent it out and then do cash-out refinance and hold on to it and put some financing on it?

Jack Gibson: Because it just wasn’t leasing up. The property management company was off… I don’t know what they were doing, but they were sleeping; I got tired of dealing with them, so I just said “Here, sell it off.” So they sold it off and I got 100k, and it was great.

Joe Fairless: Yeah, the $55,000 is great. Best ever way you like to give back?

Jack Gibson: You know, the top two things for me are church – [unintelligible [00:30:51].23] and ever since I’ve started doing that, my income has tripled and everything in my life has just increased.

Then we also support Accasa, which is for disadvantaged children; I have a big heart for the kids, so we give a ton of money to that charity. Because of our involvement, they’ve been able to take on another 25 children into their program in the last year, that are in the really tough streets of Jackson, Michigan… So it feel awesome.

Joe Fairless: Yeah, that’s incredible. And it’s interesting, you said you tied 10% and since then your income has tripled… And it’s not because you were wanting your income to triple, as a result of giving back. That’s just how the universe works.

Jack Gibson: I fully agree. I think that was the biggest game-changer for me in my entire life; when I first started doing that four years ago, it was absolutely amazing what happened. The things that started happening were indescribable. And yeah, you’re right, I wasn’t doing it to get something back, I was just doing it because I just wanted to put myself in the best possible position to be blessed, have good karma, the universe is looking out for me, all those things. It’s crazy.

I try to mentor young men in their twenties, I really wanna try to teach them how to be leaders and how to live a really good life, maybe avoid some of the mistakes I’ve made, and one of the big lessons I teach is just start giving back now; while the income is small, it’s a lot easier. When you start making big money, it’s gonna be a lot harder to make that switch, so do it now.

Look, start with 1%, 5%, and then just start working that muscle; just like going to the gym – as you build that muscle up, it becomes easier and easier to do it and to do the increase and reach the full 10%.

Joe Fairless: How can the Best Ever listeners get in touch with you all?

Jack Gibson: Well, Schecky, you are a digital marketer… I think he’s got an internet delay, so I’ll take that one then.

Jeff Schechter: Well, that’s an easy one… Just go to highreturnrealestate.com.

Joe Fairless: Great, that’s highreturnrealestate.com, and that’s also in the show notes page.

Jeff Schechter: HighReturnRealEstate.com, just like it’s spelled.

Joe Fairless: Got it, and that’s in the show notes page, so people can just click through and go check out your website, and you’ve got a nice little video on the homepage; I was watching it before we started our conversation.

So thank you you two for spending some time with myself and the Best Ever listeners, and talking about your business model, as well as challenges along the way, both from an operations standpoint as owning a turnkey company, but then also on your own deals when you were getting started. As you mentioned, Jack, the top mistakes – one, paying too much for property, and two, not factoring enough for deferred maintenance, and you gave that neat little 5% of total rents for total maintenance, assuming it truly is a turnkey, or maybe 10% to something that might have a couple issues with it, just to be conservative… As well as the giving back component, and I’ve seen it myself personally, and then also with people like you and others – you give and you give, and the rising tide lifts all boats. That’s certainly how it works.

Thanks for being on the show. I hope you two have a best ever day, and we’ll talk to you soon.

Jack Gibson: Best interview ever, Joe. Thanks for having us.

Jeff Schechter: Thank you, Joe. I appreciate it.

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