Time for the weekly update! Not much news from Joe. Theo has a lot of updates for his 4- plexes, including how he dealt with a disgruntled tenant that had vehicle damage. Joe answers a question about what to do with parking in a multi family community. If you enjoyed today’s episode remember to subscribe in iTunes and leave us a review!
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Joe Fairless: Best Ever listeners, how are you doing? Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Joe Fairless, and this is the world’s longest-running daily real estate investing podcast. We only talk about the best advice ever, we don’t get into any fluff. With us today, Theo Hicks, and if you’re watching on video, you can see Jack the Yorkie is with us today too, in a more active way, on my lap. Jack, how are you doing? Theo, how are you doing?
Theo Hicks: I’m doing well, Joe. How are you doing?
Joe Fairless: I’m doing well, too. Welcome back. Theo was in Florida, Disney World, he is back and we’ve got a lot of good things to talk about, in particular we’re gonna talk about ways to add value and increase profitability of small multis; that came from a Best Ever listener question, so we’ll talk about that. Theo, how do you wanna kick it off?
Theo Hicks: I do wanna start by giving some updates on what you have going on in your business – the good, the bad…
Joe Fairless: Sure, let’s see. Really nothing groundbreaking from last time we talked on the show… We’re continuing to finalize the due diligence on the property we’re purchasing in Dallas; we’re closing the week of 10th September, and fortunately we have a really good team within Ashcroft, because I’m actually going on my honeymoon 1st September through the 11th, or 12th maybe. Frank, my business partner, and you, and others have got things covered. That’s really it, no major news.
I mentioned last week I finished Ninja Selling; I am now reading Commercial Real Estate Mortgages. The author is a previous guest, and I can’t recall his name right now, so maybe next week, if you’ll remind me, I’ll bring the book and I’ll give my two cents on it so far. I’m about 30% of the way through. Other than that, that’s it. What have you got going on?
Theo Hicks: Well, I have to ask about what you were saying about going on your honeymoon – if you didn’t have a team, you probably would have had to skip your honeymoon and end up closing on this deal or kind of passing on the deal. You don’t need to be involved, potentially, in the closing, right?
Joe Fairless: Yeah, I don’t need to be physically present for the closing. In fact, I don’t think we’ve ever been physically present for any closing; we do it remotely. Yeah, I am involved in the closing, looking at the closing statements and things like that, but Frank, my business partner, is also the primary point person on that particular area of the business, so he’s got it covered for me while I’m doing the honeymoon.
Theo Hicks: I was having lunch with an investor the other day, and he was saying that he’s kind of traveling around right now, and he did a closing remotely and he had to go into like a UPS and he had like a stack of a 100 documents to be signed, and then scan all of them. He said it took forever.
Joe Fairless: Oh, yeah.
Theo Hicks: I do the same thing, I scan all the documents… Because I don’t think they have an online signing service that I know of.
Joe Fairless: Yeah, a lot of the times they will overnight you documents and you have to sign it and get it taken care of.
Theo Hicks: Yeah, cool. So on my end – let’s see what updates I have. I’ve got all my rents…
Joe Fairless: You got all the rents?
Theo Hicks: I have all the rents… It was funny, I’m sitting in the airport on the 5th, and for some reason some of the leases, the rents aren’t due until the 5th of the month. So it says they have until the 5th – and obviously, they go with the latter date, not with the earlier date… I’m sitting in the airport, getting ready to leave, and one of the residents calls and says “Did you take my rent yet? I sent you my debit card number to take my rent”, and I was like “Oh, I think she must have got it confused based off of the online service they were supposed to use…” But she ends up mailing me a check, and I picked it up yesterday.
Joe Fairless: How did she send you the debit card information?
Theo Hicks: In the e-mail…
Joe Fairless: Oh…
Theo Hicks: I don’t know if it was miscommunication on my end, but I remember she sent that, and I was like “Why are you sending me your debit card information? Do you need to buy something?” So there was that… And then I guess something else interesting that happened, I was talking about – this is actually the same person; she’s the only person I’ve talked to. She used to call me for all the different things that were happening, but [unintelligible [00:06:26].06] and they put a dent in there. I took some pictures, but I didn’t know how I would address it, I didn’t know how much it would cost…
Based on the way that she was asking me questions about it, and based on the way that she explained the issue to me, it seemed like she just wanted money; she didn’t wanna actually fix the car herself. So what I did is I went around and I got a bunch of quotes, and then I kind of took the average of the quotes (based on the images I sent, so obviously it wasn’t 100% correct, because if they went in there and saw it was a little different, it would have been a different cost).
Then I’ve reached out and said “Hey, here are the couple options we can do. You can take it on yourself and get it fixed, and then I’ll reimburse you, or I’ve got a couple of quotes (here are the quotes), and I can just write you a check for the damages”, and she went for that option instead… So I’m pretty sure I saved money, doing it that way.
Joe Fairless: How much did it cost?
Theo Hicks: About $195.
Joe Fairless: $195. And is she signing something that says “I won’t come back for future damages on this?” So no?
Theo Hicks: No, the only thing that I have is an e-mail trail.
Joe Fairless: Okay. Have you paid her?
Theo Hicks: Yeah.
Joe Fairless: Okay. Did she sign something that says she received it? Was it a check?
Theo Hicks: I wrote a check and I put it in her mailbox.
Joe Fairless: Okay… It’s probably fine.
Theo Hicks: Yeah, if it’s not fine, then I don’t know… I’ll definitely have everything signed for the next time. I remember you even talked about that on one of the episodes, and when I dropped the check I didn’t even think about it… But I’ve got the e-mail trail, and I guess I’m gonna just have to put my trust into the resident [unintelligible [00:07:57].06] “Oh, Theo, I went and got it repaired and it ended up costing $5,000. I want my money, or I’m not paying rent ever again”, or anything like that.
Joe Fairless: I’m sure it’ll work out.
Theo Hicks: Exactly.
Joe Fairless: We have faith in people.
Theo Hicks: And then I think besides that, I had a really good conversation with Linda Liberatore of Secure Pay One, because she was listening to one of our shows where I was talking about how I was taking over the property and what I was doing to get the rents sent to me, and things like that. Our conversation on YouTube is entitled “How to take over a property with tenants, with property management expert Linda Liberatore.” It’s about a 40-minute conversation where we literally went step by step, exactly what you wanna do from prior to closing to maybe a month after having the property, so the whole entire process of taking over.
She’s been doing this for a long time and she has a lot of interesting stories and interesting case studies of how things went wrong. Most of the conversation was me explaining what I was going through and what I did, and what I did incorrectly.
I think one of the most interesting pieces of advice that I’m going to apply going forward that I didn’t even really think about is to on like a six-month or yearly basis have like an application for each individual unit to fill out. You do that to make sure that the people that are on the lease that are living there are actually living there, and that no one else is living there. Then you kind of do a little walkthrough with them; you go to the unit and you walk through it with them to kind of check up and see if there’s any type of issues there worth talking about.
And something else she said too that I thought was really cool — because I had no idea what to do about taking over a property that’s not necessarily extremely distressed, like you don’t need to do any repairs for it to be [unintelligible [00:09:42].03] but it’s also not A property, or B+ property; it’s kind of outdated… From the 1950s, Technicolor tiles and everything. Because I didn’t really know what to do about addressing any kind of maintenance issues.
What she said is you go to each unit and say “What’s one thing you want done to your unit?” In that way you’re not bombarded with a whole list of different repairs to do, but at the same time you’re doing something right away that’s adding value to them, so you’re kind of starting on the right foot, and it also will help if you want to increase the rents, which is what we were talking about… You don’t wanna just go in there and increase the rents without adding any value, because that’s not starting on the right foot. If you go in there and the first thing you do is improve something that was kind of annoying them, but it’s something small, like a cracked window, or a hole in the wall, or a burner on their stove is out… If you address that one issue, it’s not really (kind of what we were talking before) unexpected, because they’re expecting it, so it’s not the ideal way… Because I guess it would be better if you unexpectedly fixed something, but you wouldn’t really know what they want fixed… So I plan on doing that this month when I go in there to [unintelligible [00:10:47].12] and sign new leases – “What’s one thing that you want addressed?”
Joe Fairless: When you ask them that one thing and they tell you and then you fix it, my suggestion would be to fix it and then say “And you know what? I noticed that XYZ needed some attention, so we went ahead and fixed that too for you.”
Theo Hicks: There you go.
Joe Fairless: And you can pick what that other XYZ thing is. It could be super simple.
Theo Hicks: I think the only drawback to that strategy – and I’ll talk about it when I actually do it… My fear is that they’re gonna want something big, that costs thousands of dollars to do, like “Can you replace all my appliances in the kitchen?” So I need to word it so that it’s like — like, you can’t respond by saying “Repair my entire unit” or “Update my entire unit.”
Joe Fairless: Well, it’s a repair… One thing that needs repaired or addressed.
Theo Hicks: So I need to make sure that I word it correctly.
Joe Fairless: Regardless of how you word it, it’s gonna be misinterpreted… It doesn’t really matter; you just know what the line is and you’ll just have to have a conversation with those people who ask for granite countertops and stainless steel appliances.
Theo Hicks: Exactly.
Joe Fairless: Congratulations on getting all the rents, because I know last week you had — what percent?
Theo Hicks: I think I had 7-8 out of 12, whatever percent that is.
Joe Fairless: Yeah. Well, congrats on that. That’s great to hear.
Theo Hicks: Most of it was like a mix-up or a communication issue; it wasn’t like I just didn’t hear from them. It was their confusion on how to submit the rent online, they didn’t like the fee and they wanted to mail it, but they didn’t know they could checkout too, so it was kind of just confusing. Next month I expect everything to go smoothly. If not, then we’ll talk about it on here as a mistake.
Joe Fairless: Cool, sounds good.
Theo Hicks: So I was looking at a question from a listener. His name is Devon and he asked “What is your experience with charging multifamily residents for assigned parking spaces?” It looked as if he had a medium-to-large-sized apartment complex, and he actually had a picture in his question… And there was [unintelligible [00:12:46].11] parking lot with just parking spots, and he wanted to know what’s your experience with just charging for parking. As an additional layer to the question, maybe you can talk about what are the different parking options that you can do and what are the benefits of doing a car port versus just a regular spot, versus constructing a whole brand new parking garage, based on your experience.
Joe Fairless: Well, I’d say all roads lead back to that particular property and its current situation relative to the competition in the market. Because if you are charging for parking, then there needs to be demand, right? Supply, demand… There needs to be demand for it. And you also need to be within the market parameters, or you need to be competitive with the rest of the market.
Theo Hicks: Okay.
Joe Fairless: Therefore the first thing I would look at is the current parking situation at the property. I love using the extreme examples to make the point; if you have 100 units and you have 400 parking spots, then you’re probably gonna be hard-pressed to charge residents for it. So you need to look at what type of demand and how special is it to be able to have your own parking spot.
Now let’s assume that it’s a typical apartment community, where you have two spaces for every one unit, because that’s typically the ratio at least that I’ve come across… Now, in new development they’re looking to decrease that, because it’s just not needed; people don’t drive as much if they’re in New York City or if they are in a new development that’s most likely close to a bunch of retail and bars and things like that.
But let’s just assume a typical scenario – for every unit you have two parking spots. Well, if that’s the case, then some things I would look at doing is 1) a resident recognition program for long-standing residents, because what your question, Devon, is ultimately getting at is “Can I make more money at the property through the parking situation in some way?” So instead of looking at it “Can I charge for parking spots?” look at what is your number one expense at the property, and it might be tenant turnover. So if you can increase resident retention by giving residents a prime parking spot and that is very convenient for them (they get their groceries and they can just scoop right into the apartment, versus having to go around all these cars and over the curb and stuff), if that increases resident retention, then you now no longer have move out costs, advertising/marketing costs to get the new resident in there, tenant turnover cost… So it’s likely that the $3,000 that it would cost to turn over the unit all-in is a greater amount of money than charging $25 for your parking spot in the prime location.
So look at it in multiple angles, not just “Can I charge for the spot?” Look at it from a resident retention standpoint and see if that would actually make more sense and if that can increase resident retention. But to directly answer your question about my experience charging multifamily residents, well, we do the approach I’ve just mentioned – we build carports and we are building carports. The advantage to building carports versus just charging for a prime spot in front of someone’s building is — well, it increases the value of that parking spot, assuming that the area is hit with either really bright, hot sun, which Texas is (a lot of hot sun), wind in the North, snow, in Texas hail… So you’ve got a lot of reasons why you want a carport in certain cities.
We charge $35, depending on the property, to do that, and we make 20%-25% return on those, so it tends to be a good investment. To give you an example of how many we build on a property, we’re planning on building 50 on a 250-unit property, roughly. That gives you an idea of how–
Theo Hicks: One for every five units.
Joe Fairless: Exactly, one for every five units. So we’re not building for every parking spot, we’re building selectively, and in certain areas where it makes sense.
Theo Hicks: You made a really good point, I never even thought about it that way before… When you’re kind of addressing this specific question of “Should you charge for a parking?” or [unintelligible [00:17:53].00] which is about ways to do to increase your profits, making sure that you’re doing something, [unintelligible [00:17:59].08] You charging for that might affect your tenant retention, or if someone might not wanna live there because “I can get free parking over here. Why would I pay for parking here?”
So just thinking about “Okay, if I’m going to do something here, will that potentially affect something else?” You just have to think about that before you make that decision. That’s a really good point.
Joe Fairless: Yeah, that’s what I try to do with most things. If it’s “How can we make money on this?”, well, “Is there a larger item that we can address to ultimately solve what we’re really trying to solve?” In this case, Devon’s talking about just having a better NOI at the property.
One of the things that I always keep in mind – and this is relevant, but not directly related – is our number one expense would be taxes. As entrepreneurs and real estate investors, the number one expense is taxes. So often we do all the work on the income of the property, the expenses of the property, but then from our overall tax standpoint we don’t have the right CPAs and tax analysts to identify how can we mitigate our number one largest expense – taxes.
Theo Hicks: [unintelligible [00:19:07].25] update some things, because some of our expenses were lower than what I assumed they would be, and just the property taxes alone are 25% of our rents that come in. That’s just the property tax, that’s not like the potential tax that you pay on the income. I wish there was a way that you could address that; I think there’s a couple things that you can do, but… Not really. You just have to kind of bite the bullet on that.
Joe Fairless: Cost segregation, for sure.
Theo Hicks: Yeah. [unintelligible [00:19:35].10] it’s so high… Or it seems like it’s so high.
Joe Fairless: Well, and you can protest, too. Cost segregation will just lower your tax basis in general for what you pay or what you realize, but then the actual assessment itself – you could protest, depending on where you’re at.
I actually did an episode with someone who talked about the appeal process and how to protest.
Theo Hicks: Yeah, I remember that I probably listened to that one. So the main topic — it’s kind of similar to Devon’s question about charging for multifamily, but when I read that question I was kind of thinking of different ways to essentially increase your profits. You can decrease expenses, or increase your revenue. [unintelligible [00:20:14].05] Is this going to have an effect on something else? And we were kind of talking about it in regards to time.
For example, one of the things I’ve calculated is ways to increase profits on small multifamily properties. The main thing that I saw on my first property that I bought that was a huge expense was landscaping. I literally had — you can’t look into the room, but I had like a strip of grass that was the size of this room, and the guy was charging me every week $15 for that one. I’m not sure exactly what that would be — $15 times 52 weeks, and I had to pay him at the end of the year. During the year it seemed like “Oh, I’m making all this money”, and then at the end of the year I get this bill for a couple thousand dollars.
For that part in particular, if I had mowed the lawn myself, it would have probably taken me 15 minutes to do. So I was like, okay, well I’m going to mow the lawns for my next properties until that becomes so overwhelming or unmanageable, or my time would be worth more spent somewhere else. So right now it takes me an hour or two to mow those three lawns. We just did a quick calculation beforehand and that saves me $2,000/year. So that’s a profit increase of 2k, which if you — for these properties in particular [unintelligible [00:21:23].04] they didn’t use the sales comparison approach, they used the income approach… So that’d be $2,000 divided by whatever the cap rate happened to be, for an increase in the property values.
Joe Fairless: That’s usually factored in in appraisals; they usually factor in those costs. I don’t know if it would necessarily increase the value of the property, because when the appraisal takes place, they factor it as though how it would be run professionally.
Theo Hicks: Okay. So they don’t look at my actual expenses, they’d be like “Okay, well Theo’s managing it himself and Theo’s doing the maintenance himself, but we’re gonna underwrite it as if someone else was doing the maintenance and someone else was doing the management”?
Joe Fairless: Yeah, I believe so.
Theo Hicks: Okay. So it doesn’t add to the value of the property, but I guess it adds $2,000/year to my bottom line.
Joe Fairless: Yeah, in exchange for your time.
Theo Hicks: In exchange for 26 hours of time for 2k, so yeah.
Joe Fairless: So what is that an hour?
Theo Hicks: I think it’s a little bit under $100/hour. Let’s do it actually on the calculator.
Joe Fairless: Okay… $80/hour. Are you good with that?
Theo Hicks: I’m good with that. I don’t remember if it was your podcast, or if it was a blog that I read, but they were talking about the $10/hour, $100/hour and $1,000/hour jobs, and as you progress through your business — when you start, your time in the beginning is not worth anything; so it’s probably like $10/hour… It was like “What would you pay to do what you’re doing?” or something along those lines. Then as you progress, then you’re time is worth $100/hour, so all those $10/hour tasks you were doing – you kind of check all those out, because you’re losing $90 per every hour spent on those $10/hour tasks. Then once you become where you’re at right now, when your time is worth like $1,000/hour, even [unintelligible [00:22:56].26] because now you’re losing $900 per hour spent…
Right now I think I’m at that $10/hour job, so me doing this $80/hour job, I’m saving $70. At least that’s how I’m calculating it. Again, as time goes on…
Joe Fairless: So you’re at $10/hour right now?
Theo Hicks: For my properties, yes. [laughter]
Joe Fairless: Alright.
Theo Hicks: There’s one thing — along the same lines of brainstorming ways to decrease expenses, something else that happened a lot at the last property is like really small maintenance issues would happen. The dishwasher would stop working, or…
Last night I got a text, and the guy’s lock wasn’t working. It ended up being completely fine. I assumed that he was like putting it in there, he saw it didn’t work and he just texted me right away, but it ended up working anyways.
Joe Fairless: Did you have to go over there?
Theo Hicks: I did not, no. [unintelligible [00:23:43].14] would have been $100, $200, for a ten-minute ordeal. I was talking to Marcella about this, and for small maintenance issues that will take like 15-20 minutes to address, instead of paying our contractor, who I’ve already had go over there and do a couple of things and it was like $100, $200 here and there… And based off our maintenance budget, we’ve got $600/month per property allocated to maintenance, so I’m going to go over there and address these smaller maintenance issues for a year, and then kind of calculate and see how much time I spent there versus how much money are to be saved. Then I calculate that dollar/hour, and if it’s more than $10/hour, then maybe we’re getting to save money. That’s something else that I thought about.
A key point on that – I remember I was having some conversations with people at the first conference about this, and other miscellaneous [unintelligible [00:24:29].24] and they just used YouTube tutorials for everything.
Joe Fairless: They used what?
Theo Hicks: YouTube tutorials. There’s literally YouTube videos for fixing anything. So they’ll just go in there and just search “dishwasher not working”, “dishwasher doesn’t drain”, and they’ll watch like a two-minute video on how to do that, and then they’ll do it themselves. So it’s kind of leveraging technology and leveraging YouTube to increase your profits I thought was an interesting approach, and it was kind of what lead me to do this.
Something else – this kind of goes back to “Will this decrease tenant retention?” but coin-operated laundry versus just buying a washer dryer and putting it in there. I calculated the ROI of buying a washer dryer versus just doing the coin-operated, and — fortunately for me, these previous owners actually owned these washers and dryers that are coin-operated. It’s 100%, and I know there are some services that charge 50%, so we’ll take half of the money that goes in there. So that’s another way.
Joe Fairless: Well, another angle with that is to buy the washer dryer and then rent it to the resident at a more competitive rate than they could get at Rent-A-Center, and just keep doing that, and then eventually you’ll have it paid for by them, and then future tenants or future years it will just be infinite cashflow.
Theo Hicks: Yeah, buy washer dryers and rent to them… I guess something else you could do too is obviously buy the coin-operated washer dryer; it’s something similar. Or you calculate how much you would charge for the laundry dryer based off of Rent-A-Center or based on how much money it would be to do one load of laundry per week at a laundromat, or something like that.
Something else… I ran into some guy at my gym and he was talking about this, but apparently there’s services out there for duplexes or fourplexes or smaller multi-units where the water is not broken up per unit. I think he said it costs $75/month to do. It was something where they essentially meter the water off to the individual units and then charge the actual residents for the water. So you’re charged for water every three months, so $75 times three is $225. I think our water bills were between $400-$600, so that’s some cost savings right there, and I guess it’s one less thing you have to worry about paying off, too.
Joe Fairless: And that will increase the value of your property. We do that on all of our properties… A RUBS program – Ratio Utility Bill Back System. There are companies out there that facilitate that for you, and the thing to keep in mind is that’s an expense that the resident didn’t already have, therefore it’s basically a rent increase of X amount of dollars. So you wanna make sure that “What’s the competition doing? Are they doing it?” If not, then are you competitive enough to be able to pull it off and have that increased amount of money that the resident is paying out of pocket on a monthly basis.
Theo Hicks: And then the last one I have, specifically for smaller properties, is property management. It’s important, at least from my perspective, to figure out how much time I’m spending doing the property management duties per month based on how much money I’d be spending on a property manager, to make sure that it’s worth my time.
One other small caveat as to why I think that I’m going to continue to do property management – I’m starting to toy with the idea of actually doing a property management company. So kind of having my property management company run my properties, and maybe in the future bring on other people’s properties… But that’s something that’s kind of just [unintelligible [00:27:52].08] based on some conversations that I’ve had with a couple of investors.
So that’s for smaller properties. If you’re interested in a list of ways to increase your profits on larger properties, I have a document with over 25 multifamily value-add opportunities for simple upgrades, up to these more expensive, advanced upgrades like building a carport or adding in a [unintelligible [00:28:14].15] center.
If you want to have that document, you can send an e-mail to info@JoeFairless.com and just put “multifamily value-add opportunities” in the subject line and we will send that over to you.
Joe Fairless: This document – after we went through and created it – I think it’s big, medium and small multifamily properties, because you’ve got “Upgrade the light fixtures” – you can do that anywhere. But then you have larger stuff like “renting out the clubhouse, pet fees (that’s any property), assign parking (we talked about that), upgrade packages for appliances”, and some other things that is rarely discussed but it’s truly a great way to add value. Two ways actually come to mind… One is adding a room. Maybe you’ve got a big ol’ one-bedroom, but if you can add a wall and make it a two-bedroom, what’s that look like?
I forgot what the other thing was… It’s in this document, you can just get the document and then you’ll see all 25. So info@JoeFairless.com and we’ll get you the value-add multifamily document.
Theo Hicks: Other miscellaneous items – we’ve got a new Facebook community called “The Best Ever Show Community.” Do you wanna talk about that one?
Joe Fairless: Yeah, real quick… Finally, after three years of doing this show, we have created a Facebook community for you and the rest of the Best Ever listeners. You can go to…
Theo Hicks: Facebook search “Best Ever Show Community.”
Joe Fairless: Best Ever Show Community. The reason why you’ll find value there is because we talk about the episodes that launch, a lot of times with the guest who was interviewed on the episode, so you can engage with him or her. Additionally, any real estate related questions or topics, or even entertaining articles that are related to real estate, like the world’s most expensive house recently being for sale, and what that would cost to rent out and still cash-flow… We talked about that.
So go to the Best Ever Show Community on Facebook and join the conversation there, too.
Theo Hicks: The other item – 2018 Best Ever Conference?
Joe Fairless: Yeah, real quick… The conference website will be up today, if not tomorrow. BestEverConference.com. The reason why you wanna go there now is because we’ve got early bird tickets, and the early bird tickets will allow you to save $100 on the ticket. It’s for the two-day event, February 9th and 10th in Denver, Colorado. You’ll love it, I’m confident of that. You can go watch the recap video of last year, the high caliber of attendees who were at the last event, and the experience and the level of conversation was what everyone was talking about, and how it was the most highest quality of attendees and conversation at any conference people have attended.
That’s a testament to you, Best Ever listeners, and how freakin’ intelligent you are, and looking forward to meeting you at the conference, if we didn’t meet already at last year’s conference.
Theo Hicks: Awesome. To wrap it up, we’re gonna do the review of the week. If you enjoyed the conversation and you’re finding value in these conversations, please subscribe on iTunes and leave a review, and you have the opportunity to be the review of the week.
This week’s is from [unintelligible [00:31:49].19] all the way from Portugal. He said:
“The Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever is a great podcast. Joe is a great guy and provides lots of value to the listeners. I definitely recommend this podcast.”
Joe Fairless: Great. And you said “he”, but we don’t know if it’s he or she.
Theo Hicks: You’re right. He/she, from Portugal.
Joe Fairless: Thank you, [unintelligible [00:32:13].00] I appreciate that feedback, and looking forward to reading more on each of the episodes.
Thanks for spending some time with us, Best Ever listeners. I hope you have a best ever weekend, and we’ll talk to you tomorrow.