JF1044: What Your Financial Planner Isn't Telling you About Retirement

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Charlie Jewett Real Estate Background:
-Owner of Jewett Wealth Management and Member of The Estate Planning Team
-Host of The Renovating Retirement Podcast Financial Advisor specialist and insurance services
-Author of Renovating Retirement
-Based in San Diego, California
-Say hi to him at www.jewettwealth.com
-Best Ever Book: The Power of 0%

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Joe Fairless: Best Ever listeners, welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Joe Fairless, and this is the world’s longest-running daily real estate investing podcast. We only talk about the best advice ever, we don’t get into any fluff.

With us today, Charlie Jewett. How are you doing, Charlie?

Charlie Jewett: I’m doing great, thanks for having me, Joe.

Joe Fairless: Nice to have you on the show. A little bit about Charlie – he is the owner of Jewett Wealth Management and a member of the estate planning team. He’s also the host of the Renovating Retirement podcast. He’s a financial advisor specialist and he is the author of “Renovating Retirement.” I think I’m sensing a theme here… Based in San Diego, California. With that being said, Charlie, do you wanna give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and your current focus?

Charlie Jewett: Absolutely. My background was in real estate sales. I was a realtor here in San Diego, California, I realized I didn’t like working Friday nights and weekends, which is when everybody wants to close on residential properties. I did like the numbers, I liked the finances, so I crossed over into the mortgage industry and I ended up managing 80 loan officers, and through that industry, I read a couple of books that I thought would help me help my team do more mortgages, and I ended up bumping into comprehensive financial planning, which I call MERIT planning – mortgage plan, estate plan, retirement plan, insurance plan, tax plan.

I became a financial advisor, but during that time I also purchased 15 of my own homes in that short period of about nine years. So I dipped my toes in the real estate investing world, had some success – certainly not as much as I wanted. There’s things I do different that I’m learning from your show, but background of a real estate investor, real estate agent, mortgage professional, then crossed over, studied taxes, estate planning, insurance annuities and investments, and now I just do crazy comprehensive all-inclusive plans, which is what people really need.

Joe Fairless: You gave us so much to talk about… Thank you. [laughs]

Charlie Jewett: Three hours show. It’s only gonna be a three hour show…

Joe Fairless: That’s right, that’s right. After over 1,000 episodes, why not break the mold and just start a brand new format, right? I wanna make sure I wrote this down right – 19 houses or 9 houses in 9 years?

Charlie Jewett: 15 houses in 9 years.

Joe Fairless: 15, okay. Option C, 15.

Charlie Jewett: There you go, door number C.

Joe Fairless: Yeah, door number C. 15 houses in 9 years… You said you’d do it different – let’s talk about that. What would you do and how would you do it different?

Charlie Jewett: Probably the thing that I’d do different than anybody else that’s in the traditional real estate world is I don’t finance properties the way that you’re traditionally taught to do so. When I first got into the industry, I studied what I call the three pillars of financial deception, which is you should pay off your mortgage, you should postpone taxes to a later date using [unintelligible [00:04:56].29] and you should diversify, meaning spread your money around only one type of investment, such as securities. I’ve heard your background – you realized how lacking that type of profits were… I went into real estate. I studied all three, and I 100% do not agree that you should make large down payments, pay extra principle, use 15-year fixed or try to pay off mortgages to “cashflow.” It only hurts you.

I turned around, I wrote a book on that. You mentioned Renovating Retirement, but I also wrote a book called The Two Ways To Be Debt-Free. When I work with investment property owners or just basic home owners, I’m showing them why you should have the biggest, fattest, hugest mortgage possible AND keep that money somewhere else where it’s earning 6%-7% while you pay 3%-4% tax deductible (or 4%-5%). Who knows when people are going to listen to this… Let’s call it 4%-6%, or whatever.

You should pay a mortgage while keeping your money liquid, safe, earning an arbitrage – which is earning a little bit more than you’re paying – and giving you the benefit of tax deductions, keep more of your rent (which is true cash flow). So I 100% disagree – I can prove it over and over again – with people that say you should pay off your mortgages. Other than that, I don’t have strong opinions on the subject.

Joe Fairless: [laughs] What an interesting topic, because I love this approach and I completely agree with you. There are tax advantages to having a mortgage, and the flipside is that people think “Well, I also don’t wanna be overleveraged. I’d rather just get rid of the mortgages.” But as you said, if you’re making a rate of return higher than the interest rate that you’re paying on the mortgage, then you make the difference and you have that asset that is making the higher rate of return than your interest rate on the mortgage – you have that continue to make you money.

Charlie Jewett: Right, and the biggest gift you and I could give to anybody – this is the magic of comprehensive financial planning is there is one financial plan, it’s what you do with your mortgage plan, estate plan, retirement plan, insurance plan and tax plan. It’s everything. Just like a house is not plumbing or electricity, it’s the sum of all of those workers’ efforts… It’s architectural.

So if you told a bank or an insurance company that they should be debt-free and they should listen to one of the ridiculous financial pundits who’s popular out there and pay off your mortgages because it saves you interest – if you listen to that advice or you told that to a bank or an insurance company, they would laugh in your face… Because the entire business model of banks and insurance companies is “Acquire debt, get people to put money in CDs, get people to put money in annuities or life insurance” where they pay you 2%-4%. Why do they want that debt? Why do they pay commissions to financial advisors to acquire that debt? Well, Joe, they’re turning around and lending it out at 4%-6%. If you’re paying 2% and making 4%, you’re making 100% rate of return.

Every mortgage that anybody has – you can be the bank, you can be the insurance company, but there’s one piece missing that nobody knows; when we give it to them, it’s a gift that sets them free, which is “Where do you store that money?” If you’re not gonna make a 50% down payment, but you’re gonna make a 10% or 20% down payment, where do you store the money where it makes 5%-7% tax-free, safer than being in a home, so that you’re creating an arbitrage? Where can you put the money so that you have a bigger loan, at 4.5%-5%? You can be making 5%-7%. Most people not only don’t know where to put it, worse – which is why the whole show Renovating Retirement is about what criminals and crooks the financial services industry are for ripping everybody off on a HUGE grand scheme… I’m revealing all the secrets to show you how to hold your advisor accountable, end up firing them, basically… Or hold them accountable and make them do what’s right — but you cannot build this tool without doing something that nobody wants to do, which is dropping your commissions by 75%.

If an agent doesn’t build it the right way, you’re not gonna make enough money to create an arbitrage. If it’s built the right way – and I will go to my grave just preaching this – if you can go make 5%, 6%, 7% after all fees, compounded, tax-free, where you keep it all, and you can be paying 3%, 4%, 5% tax-deductible, that arbitrage is beautiful.

Joe Fairless: So where do you put the money?

Charlie Jewett: I put the money into a certain type of life insurance that’ll shock people, but there’s book — you’re gonna ask me about the best book I’ve ever read, and I can give you a little sneak preview… The author trained me 12 years ago. There’s books on this – I wrote a book on this, and there’s probably five good books on it. E.F. Hutton in the ’70 and ’80 discovered life insurance is where you can grow money tax-free. Joe, this is pre-law of IRA. Back then you had municipal bonds, and you had nothing… Or you had what he discovered, which is life insurance.

The problem is whole life sucks; whole life’s returns are like 2%-3%. E.F. Hutton created something with a checkered past; it’s called “universal life insurance” – have you heard of that?

Joe Fairless: Yeah, yeah.

Charlie Jewett: You read Investing For Dummies, right? Universal life insurance has this checkered past, because it came out in the ’80s and the agents were showing people that they’d make 14% a year for the rest of their life, because in the ’80s some things made 14%, even [unintelligible [00:09:51].02]

That’d be like saying the stock market is gonna go up forever now because of quantitative easing or the Trump run-up, which is silly. So it has a checkered past, but as a tool, today’s indexed universal life insurance policies, minimum death benefit, lowest death benefit possible, right product, right design, drop the commissions…

There’s a video, by the way, that you can point your listeners to on YouTube called “The Six Ways To Improve Your Cash Value Life Insurance”, where I’m teaching how you do what I’m saying to a life insurance policy to make it work for you. You can get the expenses down so low, that this thing with a 30-year average of 8,2%, your expenses might be 1% or 1,5%. 8.2% – 0.5% is 7.7%, so you’re at 6.7% net compounding rate of return, tax-free, that you don’t have to share with anybody, in a product that doesn’t go backwards when the market goes down, because there’s a floor of 0% (you never lose money).

Everybody right now with rates going up should refinance every property in their portfolio to the biggest loan, the loan you’re gonna keep on it forever. They don’t know how, but I can show them 1) how you cover the higher mortgage so it doesn’t come out of your pocket; 2) the most important piece – where should you store home equity, in a home equity savings account, if it shouldn’t be inside the home, where it’s not liquid, subject to depreciation, not earning a rate of return and hurting you on taxes… Where should you put it where it is liquid, is safe, is earning a higher rate of return than the mortgage and helping you on your taxes? When we show them that tool, they go “Oh crap, it’s too good to be true.” They go study it, find out it’s true, and all of a sudden it changes everything.

Joe Fairless: I have a conversation with someone who talks about investing in life insurance policies once every seven months, and every time I have a conversation, I always highlight it but I haven’t acted on it yet. I think you’re finally pushing me over the edge where I need to act on it and do it for my own stuff, because I have some friends who also are doing this and they speak about it in such endearing ways, because it works out so well for them.
I guess the initial reaction I imagine people have when you talk to them about life insurance policies is one of suspicion, and something that sounds too good to be true, and perhaps there’s a negative connotation with life insurance salesmen or whatever, and maybe that’s where it’s coming from… But I’ve heard this a decent amount of times from people who I’ve interviewed, and I’m not doing it, but I think you’ve pushed me over to the side of actually doing it.

Charlie Jewett: Yeah, well let me give you a gift. One is you can’t get a better life insurance policy on the planet than the ones I’m building. I will stop saying that when I find one more person who’s doing the “drop your commissions by 75%.” However, for real estate investors there’s probably nothing more important than this, because every property is 100% financed – most people don’t realize that. Every single property you buy is 100% financing; if you make a down payment of 20%, you are financing 20% with lost revenue. The opportunity cost of the money you put down not being somewhere else. Does that make sense?

Joe Fairless: Yeah.

Charlie Jewett: When that somewhere else is what I’m talking about, 5%, 6%, 7% tax-free, that means for every $100,000 you are losing 5k-7k a year, and you cannot write that off on your taxes. 100% financing, which we used to be able to get before 2008 if you [unintelligible [00:13:21].03] or whatever we do today, or people that try to pay a giant down payment to “save themselves money”, all they’re doing is hurting themselves. They’re taking their money out of commission, but what your listeners don’t know and maybe you don’t know, Bill Manassero didn’t know, and he interviewed me — is if you understand life insurance and how to use it like a bank, you can have – brace yourself – second mortgages on investment property, so 100% loan-to-value at 4.3% tax-deductible, no payments due ever; no monthly payments, not due until you die and then someone else pays it off for you. Does that sound attractive for investors?

Joe Fairless: Maybe. I don’t know about leaving my kids or grandkids with a bunch of stuff they have to pay off after I die.

Charlie Jewett: That’s the key with life insurance – the death benefit is so high that it pays off all of the mortgages and leaves more to the kids, plus the value of the property. You always leave two or three times as much to your loved ones by our way, versus just pay off the home and leave them whatever’s in it. The value of the home is always the value of the home, right?

Joe Fairless: Right. So say that a little bit slower, that way I can take notes. You said with a life insurance policy you can get a second mortgage on all of your investment properties…

Charlie Jewett: Right, so if you have money inside of life insurance and you’re gonna buy an investment property, the banks aren’t gonna do this for you, nowhere else you go will do this for you, but an insurance company will. They will lend you money, you can put it down on a property as a down payment – so basically you have a second mortgage… If you’re borrowing money for a down payment it’s a second mortgage, right?

Joe Fairless: Yup.

Charlie Jewett: You have a second mortgage to 100% loan-to-value. Today’s rates are 4.3% based on Moody’s corporate bond rate (based on a bond rate), there are never any payments due on an insurance loan – unless you take all the rest of the money out and there’s no money in there, but as long as you manage the policy you’re supposed to there’s never any payments due… They will pay themselves back when you die out of a death benefit we didn’t want in the first place, which may not make sense unless you read a couple of these books. But any property handled the way I’m talking about, you never have to put a single dime of your own money in, so you’re fully leveraged, and all of the costs for the 80% traditional loan or 75% traditional loan plus this insurance company’s second mortgage – all of those costs are lower than what we’re earning where we keep the money.

So we keep our money liquid, keep it safe, keep it making an arbitrage where you’re paying 4%-5% and making 5%-6%, and your tax deductions are as high as they possibly can be, which lowers your taxes, so you keep more of your rent. That is true cash flow.

Joe Fairless: In order to have a policy — say my down payment is $20,000. In order to have the second mortgage, so to speak, and have the life insurance policy cover that $20,000, I need to have probably $20,000 in the life insurance policy, that way we’re borrowing against what we already have in? Is that correct?

Charlie Jewett: Yeah… The key to comprehensive planning is to look at the five pieces, which is like, say, plumbing, carpentry, roofing, masonry work and drywalling in the home industry. This industry just does a terrible job. People get tax advice only looking at taxes; they get investment advice only looking at investments. If you look at the whole thing and somebody redoes their mortgage plan, estate plan, retirement plan, insurance plan and tax plan all at one time, one of the things that always happens is money that you have inside of properties already, money that you have in brokerage accounts, whatever – that gets transferred to family banking, that gets transferred to some sort of life insurance vehicle that’s beating the stock market.

The safe investment is beating the stock market, the stock market becomes useless. So when you do your whole plan and you move money into these banking concepts or safe investments, whatever, that cash value then in the future is available as collateral for doing insurance company loans, which can just by more properties.

By the way, why would I do 100% financing on every property, if they still offered it? If you take the money out of the properties before depreciation happens – now, Joe, you sound young, I’m young… Mortgage meltdowns are not the only reason properties go down in value. The number one reason properties go down in value is when interest rates on loans go up, and people can’t afford the payments, so nobody’s buying, and the seller still wanna sell and they go “I’ve gotta incentivize these guys”, right?

Historically, when the rates go up, values can go down, and we haven’t even seen that in 17 years, or whatever… But that’s what happens. When rates are starting to crawl up, if you get all the money you can out before the rates go up, or before another mortgage meltdown (who knows?) and then you’re holding it somewhere safe when property values come down, that’s when you wanna be buying… You wanna be in a position of not leaving the equity in your homes so that you lose it when everything goes down; get it out first, put it somewhere safe where you can never lose it, wait for properties to crash, then you wanna buy them with none of your own money. Use bank financing, use the second mortgage from the insurance companies…

You were spot on – if you’re gonna borrow 20k, you probably want 25k-30k of cash value sitting in the life insurance policy. In my type of planning that’s easy anyway, because it’s beating the stock market; we use it for a giant piece of the money.

Joe Fairless: What would be some resources that the Best Ever listeners can watch…? I mean, you mentioned your video… What about some books?

Charlie Jewett: First we’ll do the Bible… So what’s the best book I’ve ever read in my life on this type of planning? Missed Fortune 101 by Douglas Andrews. Missed Fortune 101 is the 250-page version of this 550-page book called Misfortune, which is all that was around when I studied this in 2005. Missed Fortune 101 has three parts: why you shouldn’t postpone taxes to a later date because you’ll probably be in a higher tax bracket… The whole thing was a scam from the IRS. Second part – why you should never pay off a mortgage, because it only hurts you, because equity is not liquid-saved; you’re not earning a rate of return and it hurts you on your taxes. Third part of the book – if you’re not gonna pay extra principle to mortgages, not gonna make big down payments, if you’re gonna do a cash-out refinance and take money out of a home to borrow at 4%-5% tax-deductible and put it somewhere else, where is this somewhere else? It goes into life insurance, it does a really deep dive, basics on understanding life insurance.

You can also read Patrick Kelly’s “Tax-Free Retirement”, David McKnight’s “The Power of 0%”, my book, “The Two Ways To Be Debt-Free” on why you should never pay out the mortgage… So book-wise, you have those.

My video is at WatchCharlie.com. I made it easy. The YouTube channels – now the names are ridiculous, it sounds like r2d23cpo and then seven alphabets from Arabic languages, right? So my videos can be found at WatchCharlie.com. I just put up three hours of everything I teach: IN-Case, IN-Come, IN-Crease. You need three types of money: IN-Case accounts, IN-Come accounts, IN-Crease accounts, which could be retirement funds, yet to be taxed, or it could be after-tax money like we’re talking about. The after-tax money, the IN-Crease Accounts number two is an hour on just this tool, just how you use life insurance, why do people use life insurance; I hear life insurance is expensive and is a terrible investment, blah-blah-blah… But guess what? A Crown Victoria is kind of a crappy car, but the police departments that use Crows Victorias don’t use the crappy car; they buy it and then they fix it up, they tweak it and make it a cop car, and that’s what we’re talking about.

It’s not what club you buy, it’s how Tiger Woods (or whoever won the Masters) uses the club. I wanna teach people how to use life insurance; even if it starts out crappy, how do you tweak it, lower the death benefit, change the death benefit, assignment of level increasing, and then take out the commissions – how do you use it and tweak it and soup it up and make it beat the stock market or make it a place to hold money and borrow against to buy real estate with 100% second mortgages.

Joe Fairless: As you’ve gone through the education process and now implementation process of this approach, what mistakes or callouts would you have for listeners who plan on doing this? Either mistakes you’ve made, or mistakes you’ve seen people make in how they’re setting this up.

Charlie Jewett: Before I bought my first home, I read this book “Misfortune 101”, so it’s not arrogance – I did everything the guy said, so I didn’t make the mistakes. I did the largest mortgage possible on every property, did 100% financing every time I possibly could… I had 40-50 clients that did 100% financing on every property prior to the mortgage meltdown. When I tracked how my clients did and how I did, versus how the people who said no to me did after the mortgage meltdown, and it was incredible. My team did really well, other people got crushed, which you always will if you leave equity in the home and the values go down. But the mistakes that I’ve seen that I want people to avoid are believing the baloney that somehow making a big down payment saves you money or that mortgages are expensive, so that free paying interest or paying extra principle — I know it’s a sacred cow, Joe. I’ve been attacking this non-truth for 12 years and I understand how people respond. Only humble people can receive this truth. You have to say “I don’t care about tradition. All I care about is what it’s accurate.” When you study it, you get to the other side and you go “That is no longer accurate.”

So what’s a mistake that I want other people to avoid? You do not put a giant chunk of money inside of a piece of real estate, whether it’s a primary residence or a rental. You permanently destroy one of the tax deductions you get called acquisition indebtedness, you’re hurting your cash flow, you’re hurting how much you’re worth when you’re dead, you’re hurting how much long-term carry you’re getting, you’re hurting your kids when you leave money behind in the next life — I haven’t mentioned that: long life, short life, rough life, sick life and the next life, depending on how you manage your financial plan. The mistake would be paying extra principle, using 15 year fixed mortgages or making big down payments… You don’t need to do that. You think that’s lowering your costs or what you pay monthly and increasing cash flow, and it’s not.

You can have another plan using the smallest down payment and the biggest mortgage possible (30-year fixed) and how much ever higher the mortgage payment is can be covered inside of the plan. These are budget-neutral strategies. Whether you have no mortgage or you’re 100% financing, the same out of pocket is coming out of your pocket my way, because the plan itself pays for the higher mortgage.

So the biggest mistake I think people are doing is believing the ignorance out there of the people that are still teaching that building equity inside of homes somehow saves you money or is somehow conservative when it’s not. They just need a little but of retraining. They can read my book…

Also, by the way, I’ve put an entire hour long video… I was asked to come in and teach this concept in Utah, so I’ve put an entire hour long video on the same YouTube channel, WatchCharlie.com. Just go look for the video where I’m standing up in a suit and I look kind of fat (because I was). It’s about an hour long; you can watch it and learn what I taught those people.

No one argues it. Some people say “I would feel emotionally icky, because my dad and my mom told me not to do this”, but nobody can argue the math, which is what’s important in financial planning.

Joe Fairless: Based on your experience – and I think I know what’s coming, but I’m gonna ask you the question anyway – what is your best real estate investing advice ever?

Charlie Jewett: Best real estate investing advice ever… We’ll do financing and then property choice. Financing – I would say don’t use any of your own money. 100% financing, every single time. Obviously, buying the right deal, all that kind of stuff.

So certainly, don’t take any of your money out of commission, where it could earn 5%, 6% or 7%; even if you don’t know where to do that yet – I’ll teach you, that’s fine… But don’t give up 5%, 6%, 7% to try to save yourself the cost of a mortgage, which would be 4%-5% tax deductible as of recording this.

Property choice-wise — you know Bill Manassero, right?

Joe Fairless: Yup.

Charlie Jewett: Yeah, Bill Manassero’s trying to get 1,000 doors, and he’s owned multi-unit properties… I know you guys do all kinds of stuff, but my personal experience was owning multiple single-family homes – that I was either managing myself or trying to hire a money manager – was inefficient, not a lot of fun… I was making money, but I hated it so much that I got out of the industry and said “I don’t know if I like real estate investing.” Your show, or Bill’s (show) – people like that have got me interested again, that there’s another way to do it based on my personality, which is probably not the “one house at a time” strategy, but more mobile home parks or multiple-door apartment buildings or something like that… Or even possibly being a silent partner; I don’t know if I’m the guy to manage the manager or manage the properties. But the way I did it didn’t work for me, wasn’t very efficient, but financing-wise, I could help any of your listeners to either confirm, pat them on the back and go “Yes, exactly what you’re doing is the most efficient way financially speaking” or, here’s a little tweak – “It costs the same as what you’re doing, using tools you didn’t know existed (Bill confirmed they exist) and this is gonna set you up better.”

Joe Fairless: Are you ready for the Best Ever Lightning Round?

Charlie Jewett: Absolutely.

Joe Fairless: Let’s do it. First, a quick word from our Best Ever partners.

Break: [00:26:35].25] to [00:27:40].22]

Joe Fairless: Best ever book you’ve read, that you haven’t mentioned already.

Charlie Jewett: One I haven’t mentioned already is the Power of 0% by David McKnight – How To Put Yourself In The 0% Tax Bracket.

Joe Fairless: Best ever deal you’ve done?

Charlie Jewett: Best ever deal I did was I bought a house for $800,000, 75% negative amortization first, 25% interest-only second. It went up to $880,000, I took 80k cash out by refinancing it. Then my business fell apart in 2008, and just like the book teaches, I called them up and said “I can’t make the payments right now. What do you want me to do? Do you want the house?” and they go “No, we want you to stay there.” I go “Okay”, so I rented it to a rockstar – which you guys would recognize – and while not paying the mortgage and negotiating a loan modification, I rented it for three or four years, short-sold it for $375,000, was forgiven the difference between the 375k and the million it had gone up to, and then California waived the taxes, yet I still had put no money in it, so I could rent the whole time… I had the $80,000 I took as a cash-out – that’s what these strategies will do for you.

Joe Fairless: What’s a mistake you’ve made on a transaction?

Charlie Jewett: A mistake on a transaction… I bought a property one time here in Mission Valley in San Diego that the builder was renting back at $7,000/month, which sounded absolutely amazing. But that really wasn’t market rent, so when I bought it I didn’t think “Well, when the builder’s done, what’s it gonna go to?” [unintelligible [00:29:03].06] Your basic young, ignorant person going “Hey, things are going well. They’re probably gonna go well forever”, as opposed to saying “Plan for the worst, assume the best.”

That’s the only property in the 15 that we lost money on. We ended up selling it for a loss when it was over.

Joe Fairless: What’s the best ever way you like to give back?

Charlie Jewett: Renovating Retirement for me is the giveback. You can tell the pioneers from the arrows in their back, but the industry doesn’t like me very much. I get hate mail and all kinds of stuff, because Renovating Retirement is me saying “Hey listen, I’m pissed off. I’m the whistleblower. I’m in this industry, but turning on my own industry, saying what we’re doing corporately is wrong. We’re stealing 30%-40% of people’s retirement from them for a little bit of extra commission up-front”, or God forbid you’re with one of the brokerage firms and they’re just jamming you into mutual funds, ripping you off for the rest of your life.

So my give back is free education, 91 podcasts – I know that sounds high to me, but oh my goodness gracious, you’re [unintelligible [00:30:01].07] so it doesn’t sound high to you… But 91 podcasts, probably 30-40 hours of education at RenovatingRetirement.com and WatchCharlie.com, or I do Truth In A T-Shirt – I teach as much as I can in a T-shirt, because who needs a suit?

Joe Fairless: Alright, cool. I would ask you what’s the best ever way of getting in touch with you, but you’ve mentioned that multiple times throughout the conversation, so I don’t think we need to do that.

Charlie, this has been an educational interview, that’s for sure… An interview about clearly something that you’re passionate about, which is enjoyable to talk to someone who is passionate about what they’re doing. I completely agree with you on the front of not paying off your mortgage early, instead invest that money into something that is paying a higher rate of return than your interest rate on your mortgage, and then you can enjoy the difference in that spread. That’s one takeaway, for sure.

And your vehicle that you use to invest that money is the index life insurance policy – I believe that’s what you’ve said.

Charlie Jewett: You’ve gotta tweak it, you’ve gotta make it a cop car.

Joe Fairless: You’ve gotta tweak it. So thanks so much for being on the show, Charlie. I hope you have a best ever day, and we’ll talk to you soon.

Charlie Jewett: Thanks, Joe.

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