Dave Codrea is a partner at Greenleaf Capital Partners, a full-service, integrated real estate company that buys, rehabilitates, and manages long-term, low-income residential properties and small business commercial properties. In this episode, Dave discusses his transition from multifamily to commercial, surprising caveats he’s seen in triple-net leases, and how three sentences in a 60-page lease could make or break millions of dollars.
Dave Codrea | Real Estate Background
- Partner at Greenleaf Capital Partners
- 4,000 multifamily units
- 2M sq. ft. of medical, industrial, and net lease properties
- Based in: Atlanta, GA
- Say hi to him at:
- Best Ever Book: Into Thin Air by John Krakauer
- Greatest Lesson: When it comes to challenges in your business, if you are going to delegate to someone else to help, you have to be clear with expectations and goals.
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Ash Patel: Hello, Best Ever listeners. Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I'm Ash Patel, and I'm with today's guest, Dave Codrea. Dave is joining us from Atlanta, Georgia. He is the co-founder and partner at Greenleaf, an Atlanta-based real estate investment firm. Dave's portfolio consists of 4,000 multifamily units, and 2 million square feet of medical, industrial and net Lease properties. Dave, thank you for joining us, and how are you today?
Dave Codrea: I'm doing very well. Thanks for having me. Excited to talk some real estate shop here.
Ash Patel: It's our pleasure. Dave, before we get started, can you give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and what you're focused on now?
Ash Patel: So background - I started in basically multifamily real estate. And kind of a little bit of an intro... I purchased about 4,000 units, and now over the past three or four years, I've sold a good amount of those. So I'm down to about 1,500 at this time. And over that five years ago, I started buying the commercial assets, which is industrial flex, or medical, warehouse stuff; that's all more of a square foot-based metric to count, versus a unit number to count on. But Greenleaf started back in 2008, and I have a great business partner; we've been together the whole time. And over the years, we've simply tried to find cashflow opportunities in real estate. We focus in Atlanta, so we are not trying to build a national footprint. We kind of play in our backyard, and we go up 85, which is a big highway that goes up towards Charlotte, North Carolina, and we stick to that area and try and find the opportunities we can to create cash flow in real estate.
Ash Patel: And you pivot chasing those cash flow properties. So you pivot asset classes often.
Dave Codrea: Yes. We pivot. But on the other standpoint, we also try and look at what's very similar about the stuff that we are buying. When we were buying apartments, we were buying one and two-storey exterior walk-up, brick construction, basic HVAC systems; nothing crazy. So we're not buying high-rise apartments, we're not buying class A with lots of amenities... We knew the type of asset we were buying. When we got into the commercial space, we didn't want to go a different route. So even our commercial buildings are single-storey, garden layouts, brick exterior, lots of parking... So these things are very similar from that standpoint; we're in the same geographic footprint, so we can use a lot of the same resources we have on both asset types. And I have different tenants, which is very different.
Ash Patel: Dave, when was your first commercial purchase?
Dave Codrea: Probably 2018.
Ash Patel: Okay.
Dave Codrea: And that was office buildings.
Ash Patel: What made you pivot, other than just chasing high returns? Or was that the primary factor?
Dave Codrea: Yeah, no, I mean, looking for stability. We were looking for stability; we had some good exits in the multifamily space, and we've found an opportunity to have a high credit commercial lease; it was right down the street from a property we already had, so it was like, "Well, we're driving by this thing all the time." And it came up for sale; we could buy it at a very attractive cap rate, with excellent debt... And we thought it was a good opportunity to do it. So we took that first stab at the commercial space. That was about 100,000 square feet that we acquired and operated, and over the years we still have that asset today. It's performed very well. We've got the main tenants that are still there, so it's a great deal.
Ash Patel: Dave, a lot of multifamily investors are looking to pivot into other asset classes, because cap rates are decompressing. Debt is getting harder to come by, investors' appetites aren't what they were just a year or so ago... Take me back to your mindset in 2018. Was this more a roll of the dice, "Let's buy this and see what happens. It looks good"?
Dave Codrea: I think there's a little bit of that in every time you're gonna do a deal. Eventually -- look, I only have so much information. Let's give it a shot and see if it works. But on the backend of it, coming from multifamily where you have a lot of turnover, you've got shorter-term leases, this deal was secured by a state agency lease that was 10 years long. So we knew we had some stability and cashflow that was there. We had some big gains that we were rolling into it from a 1031 standpoint. So from an investment standpoint, we were going to earn higher cash returns from day one on our equity than if we went in and did another value-add multifamily deal. So part of this was "How do we realize higher immediate cashflow returns, versus go put it at risk and do another value-add multifamily deal?"
Ash Patel: You mentioned the debt was much more appealing. Why is that?
Dave Codrea: The rate was very good. It's not high leverage. But again, I'm not trying to put high leverage on any of our deals, really... So 70 is about the most you're going to try and find, but this one we're in the high 50% debt range right now, which is fine, and that works. And our rate's in the 3% range.
Ash Patel: Why is your leverage at 50%?
Dave Codrea: Yeah, why is it so low? On the commercial side, one, you've got to have a lot more cash reserves; you have a loan that is stickier to how your tenants are performing... So in that situation, our loan was based off the credit-worthiness of the tenants that were there. Whereas multifamily, you have 100, 200 tenants; that credit risk is very spread out. In commercial, you may only have one, two or three tenants, and the quality of the loan you're gonna get it's highly dependent upon that tenant's financials. So the bank is not only underwriting you, it's underwriting that tenant as well, to make sure they're gonna be there, and have a good business. And anytime you're getting a state, or a federal-backed lease, that's normally the best credit that's out there.
Ash Patel: And when you say your debt is tied to the stickiness of the lease, does that mean your debt is 10 years long, as long as the lease is good for?
Dave Codrea: Correct. But you could have a four and a half year lease, and you're only really going to get a four and a half year loan. So it's very much tied to what does that lease term look like, to build your loan on top of that.
Ash Patel: And is this recourse or non-recourse?
Dave Codrea: Most of the commercial bank loans that I've done have all been with regional banks. So they're all smaller banks. There's not a Fannie and Freddie exit strategy that's going to roll that out and wipe away all your recourse. So there's typically recourse tied to it at certain thresholds.
Ash Patel: And 100,000 square feet - what was the purchase price?
Dave Codrea: That was about 18 million.
Ash Patel: And what's the cash on cash return?
Dave Codrea: Going into it - this was in-place cash that was there; we were generating about 8% out of the gate. And total cash right now, we're over 10% a year. But we do have an amortizing loan where we are paying principal on this deal. We bought that deal for about 14 million, not 18 million. So yeah.
Ash Patel: And you say it's an amortizing loan that you're paying principal on, which is quite different than the multifamily world, where you typically do bridge loans or interest-only loans.
Dave Codrea: Correct. This one, we've got a very large mortgage payment, because we don't have a 30-year amortization either. So we've got shorter amortizations, you are paying principal... So you're seeing value drive from that principal reduction, which is more similar to a residential home loan, where you're fully paying the loan on it.
Ash Patel: What is the amortization on this loan? Is it 20 years, or 25?
Dave Codrea: It's 25 years. But most of the commercial stuff is between 20 and 25 years.
Ash Patel: Yep. I'm surprised you couldn't find a bank that would do 20% down.
Dave Codrea: Yeah... That's also not something we're even really looking for. So we're not even asking to do that; to me, that leverages is just too high. End of the day, you've got to be able to be comfortable and go to sleep at night, and that one 80% leverage is just too high.
Ash Patel: Let's dive into that for a second. So every deal that we do, we shoot for 15%. We have some lenders that do 15, others that do 20% down. We want to maximize our cash on cash return. Now, I get people saying, "Oh, you're over-levered." Well, if I have a huge stockpile of cash in the bank, I'm not over-leveraged. So why not put the smallest amount down, and do more of these deals? Let's pause there for a second. I want to get your opinion on that. Why not put 15% or 20% down?
Dave Codrea: You certainly could. That big pile of cash on the side allocated to that deal would be helpful. I think what happens is - a big pile of money, like "Well, I'll put 15% down on this one, and 15% on this one..." And that pile gets allocated out to everything, and it gets smaller and smaller. We're not set up as a fund; we do every deal on its own individual LLC, so that deal's got to work on its own, and we're willing to sacrifice some cash flow returns to have a more conservative approach to knowing that there's nothing else really behind that LLC. It's gotta work on its own to do it. We're the guarantors, and we're backing all this stuff, but having a high-leverage position just means you have to have that much more reserves on the backend; essentially, the same thing, just keep those reserves in play in the deal.
Ash Patel: Got it. The only thing I'm going to push back on is if something goes south with that deal, the bank is not going to allow you to take money out of that LLC, or out of the equity of that property. Whereas if it's sitting in your bank, you can deploy it as you see fit.
Dave Codrea: Correct. If it's sitting in the bank, and it's not in that LLC, it's protected from anything that happens in that LLC. From another standpoint, we're doing deals and signing recourse on stuff where we have confidence in the market that we know, we know how to operate it... So yeah, we're definitely taking more risk because you have equity at risk, versus just the bank at risk...
Ash Patel: Yeah. And listen, I get your approach, because you're paying a lot less interest, because you've got a lot more capital in the deal. I'm just playing devil's advocate.
Dave Codrea: Yeah.
Ash Patel: So speaking of which - you raise capital for each individual deal.
Dave Codrea: Correct.
Ash Patel: How is raising capital for commercial deals different than raising for multifamily?
Dave Codrea: You have a lot more discussion around what that tenant does, and who that tenant is going to be. On the multifamily side, typically you're saying, "Hey, I'm gonna buy this asset that's already in an area where you know what the population and the number of renters are that are there", and your typical gameplan is to either make it nicer through a value-add position, or change your rents... The path to creating value is pretty clear. And almost everyone knows that at some point, someone's going to rent an apartment. I've rented a bunch of apartments in my life; it's just kind of part of the growth pattern. But not everyone has a business that needs to go have 10,000 square feet somewhere. So that discussion around "Who is the tenant, what is the use, why is that use going to happen here?" is a much more detailed conversation than it is on the residential, tenant side.
Ash Patel: Dave, having 2 million square feet of non-residential commercial, would you still go back and buy multifamily?
Dave Codrea: If I could find it, that I thought it was a good deal, certainly. We're very much still in the multifamily business, and it's been very good, even over the past couple of years here; we just haven't been buying it, because we've seen better opportunities, in our opinion, in the flex space, in the warehouse type stuff, and medical, too... But there's still great multifamily opportunities out there, and it's also very specific of your market. We're only really in Atlanta to Charlotte; we gone up to Raleigh a little bit, but the apartment market in some other cities has been phenomenal. We're just not in those.
Ash Patel: And have you looked at any retail?
Dave Codrea: Yes. Retail - I feel like 2015, retail had a bad name to it, and that everyone's like, "Oh, man, it's all going away. Amazon's gonna take over the world." That hasn't fully been the case. Most of the retail that I own is single tenant net leased assets, and it's predominantly franchise operations, which, if you look at the business between franchises and non-franchises over the past two or three years, really since COVID, the bigger businesses have really performed well. And especially the well-run ones. So we have a lot of the triple net lease deals that have performed really well, consistent cash flow and pretty solid yields that we're receiving out of those.
Ash Patel: So your business model is very conservative; you want to make sure that your tenants are credit-worthy, they're not going anywhere, these leases are sustainable, and you're not really rolling the dice, looking for homeruns by buying vacant properties. You want to keep that cashflow coming in.
Dave Codrea: Correct. We have some stuff that's vacant, and we'll do some value-add on that, but I feel like in our business there's only so much vacancy that you can stomach. There's only so many turnaround deals you can do at one time, or there's so many repositions that have to happen. And most of them, they take a long time, so you're working on that same project for a while... Which is fine. But yeah, we're looking more for how do we build immediate cash flow out of the gate.
Ash Patel: And you mentioned that your lender will also underwrite the tenants... So the tenant has to submit their financials to not just you, but to your lender as well.
Dave Codrea: It's not necessarily like a full underwriting from the bank that they're going through with the tenant, but they do want to know who that tenant is. So we own some [unintelligible 00:14:30.13] restaurant locations. We don't own the restaurant by any means, but we just own the real estate, and the bank on those - they want to know how long is that franchise agreement with [unintelligible 00:14:40.05] And they know what those franchise agreements look like, but they want to know "Do they have one? Who is it with?" That franchise agreement is a lot different than the due diligence or what you can get when you're looking at an individual multifamily tenant, where it's like, "Well, you're underwriting each individual tenant, and they have to qualify to rent the unit, and you're looking at their income, debt, rent payment levels..." The bank is not necessarily going into all the weeds on that, and they're not necessarily going into all the weeds on the [unintelligible 00:15:06.29] but they do want to see that franchise agreement and know it's there.
Ash Patel: Dave, for the better part of over 10 years, I've been screaming from the mountaintops for people to go into retail, office, industrial... And anytime I had this conversation with multifamily people, the response is always "No, stick to what you know. Stay in your lane." And you are a great example of pivoting and finding the cash flow that is not really there in multifamily anymore. What's your advice to those Best Ever listeners that are in multifamily, that are just staying in their lane because somebody's ingrained in them to stick to what you know? What's your advice on pivoting into other asset classes?
Dave Codrea: I look at even assets I own today, the best opportunity I have is to buy a neighboring property. If I've already got a multifamily deal, what's right around it? I already come from that area, I already know what's going on there... So when we first started buying commercial, it was "Let's ride around the multifamily properties that we already have." That also looks reasonable; I can get my head around what's operating there, and then do my underwriting. I think the best thing to look at it is just what's close to where you are currently at.
Ash Patel: It's good advice. Or proximity to where you live.
Dave Codrea: I live in Atlanta, so I started investing in Atlanta, and grew in one direction from here... So yeah, living near where you're investing to I think is definitely beneficial, especially if you're the sponsor, or you're the GP. Now, if you're in an LP position, it's probably not as important, but from an operator and a sponsor, I think that's highly important that you're close to where your assets are, and you can keep a pulse on what's going on.
Ash Patel: Dave, your opinion on the difference between medical, industrial, and retail? ...in terms of returns, getting financing for underwriting... Just start thinking out loud, if you would.
Dave Codrea: The medical space - if you just look around at any hospital that's out there, it's probably under construction. They're probably building something at it. So medical has been growing tremendously across the US for decades now... And all of those facilities, once you're near a hospital, once you're in there, those practices and groups are growing very well. They do have a lot of space requirements. Telehealth is happening, but still, most all medical stuff is done in person. So we see that as a big benefit. But those buildouts are very expensive, so your price per square foot on the medical side is in the hundreds of dollars a square foot, whereas if you go to the other side, and you hit the flex and the warehouse, you're trying to get that in the tens of dollars per square foot. So it's a lot cheaper per square foot. Also your rents are a third of what they are on the medical side.
So you're kind of balancing this trend of "How much am I paying for what rent am I getting?", which is the same thing you look at a multifamily - it's like, "How much am I paying for what rents am I getting?" And then medical obviously has some higher credit-worthiness of tenants when you're looking at some of the groups that are renting medical space. You've got a lot of national medical chains that take up spaces; almost Like a retail play. If you look at smile dentistry, a lot of these bigger brands now that are taking up retail space with a medical twist to what they're doing... Retail has the highest rate per square foot. So the price per square foot in retail is way higher than anything else, because you've got such a specific use case for that one piece of real estate. It trades at a higher value than flex, which anyone can move in here, so it's a very generalized point.
Underwriting all of those collectively is quite a challenge, but we try not to necessarily compare them all to intensively. We're looking at "Does this deal work independently on its own, from what we know about that specific asset type?" We have different investment models for each one, so it's not one investment model that we're trying to piece all this stuff into.
Ash Patel: A lot of people will look at triple net, and they equate that with mailbox money. It's almost like capturing institutional capital; it's when you've made it. So what do you say to those people that think once you get a triple net property it's mailbox money? ...because not all triple nets are the same.
Dave Codrea: Yeah, they are not the same.
Ash Patel: What are the variables you see in triple net deals?
Dave Codrea: If you look at triple net deals, most of these things, they're run by very large companies. So if you've got a big operator that's operating a location -- and for the most part, they make less emotional decisions; they're making business decisions. So if that location isn't performing well, they're going to shut it down and they'll build a brand new one a mile away, that they think is going to be better. And you'd be like, "Why would they shut something down?" It's like, they're not making an emotional decision, they're making a business decision. So your analysis has to be tied to [unintelligible 00:21:43.03] They're fine going and opening another location. So we're always trying to look at the retail space, and make sure you've got a higher-performing store; make sure it's in the newer generation of build [unintelligible 00:21:56.25] Any of us that drive around, you see a Wendy's that looks like it's like 50 years old. When did they build that one? It's like, well, Wendy's might just go build one of their brand new footprints right across the street, and they're going to be fine with that, because that's a good business decision for Wendy's. They don't have any emotional tie to that 50-year-old location, because they've been there a long time. So you've got to make sure it's high-performing.
Ash Patel: Do you only look for absolute triple nets? When I say "absolute", one of the ones that has no landlord responsibilities. Or do you look for ones that are variations of that?
Dave Codrea: When we're looking at stuff, I want to make sure I'm investing with a good brand, and a good operator. A case of that would be Dollar General. I think they're an excellent-run company, and they've performed very well over the years, and they keep expanding, and they're doing well... But their lease structure is that it's more of like a double-net lease, where the landlord is a lot of times responsible for the roof, and some of the parking lot stuff... And we're okay with that. That's part of what it's like operating and working with Dollar General. So in that situation, I'm totally fine with that lease structure, because that's the normal relationship between that tenant.
Ash Patel: Got it. And I think it's important to discern for the Best Ever listeners - even triple nets, a lot of them have just endless number of variables in there. For example, you can have a Walgreens where it's no landlord responsibilities. If something happens to the roof, the $40,000 HVAC unit, the landlord doesn't even hear about it. Walgreens just takes care of it. There's other leases - it could be a Walgreens - where the landlord is still responsible for this stuff, but you can bill things back to the tenant, either at once, or amortized over time. So not all triple nets are created equal.
Dave Codrea: Yeah, that's certainly correct. And a lot of the times they're labeled as "Hey, it's just a triple net deal." It's like, not always...
Ash Patel: Yeah, brokers love using that. And unless you read "Absolute triple net, no landlord responsibilities", my guess is there's some catches in there. And with any commercial deal, the devil's in the details. What are some examples of details that you were taken aback by, and that you've never seen before, and you're like, "Wow, what is this?"
Dave Codrea: We've had triple net leases where - yes, they're triple net, but the taxes; we pay the property taxes, and they pay us back 45 days later. It's like, "Well, okay... That's still something else that we've got to do. We've got to go bill that back." And that's not a lot of work, but it is not purely a "You bought this and all they're going to do is send you a rent check." That's not the case. So those details like that.
Another great one in the commercial space is the CAM, or common area maintenance. And a lot of times these are costs that are shared or billed back to tenants when they're in a building that has even one, but most of the time multiple tenants in it, but everyone has a different calculation on how that's done. So you have base years, where I moved in here in 2014, and I'm only covering the newer costs above from what I moved in to what the original costs were. And a lot of times if you're not going through those leases, and seeing what that full details are, you could miss some pretty significant dollars on that asset.
Ash Patel: Do you and your team go through the leases, or do you outsource that to attorneys?
Dave Codrea: We have a lease abstract that we use during closing, that our attorneys help us with, because one, we're also trying to rely on information the seller's giving us - and we've certainly had acquisitions where "Hey, there's pages missing from this lease." It's like, "Well, what's on those pages?" Like, "Oh, it doesn't matter. It's not important." It's like, "We still want to see all the pages." Or leases that [unintelligible 00:25:38.11] didn't even have them. So our attorneys help us with that on the frontend, and then once we're operating, we're going through those with our internal team, really all the time, as we're looking at our CAM reimbursements.
Ash Patel: And you have to, right? And there's no way around it. Even if you have an attorney summarize a lease, they're gonna miss stuff.
Dave Codrea: Yeah, they're not perfect. No one is, but a commercial lease is a lot longer than a residential lease, so you've got a lot going in there... And even these Net Lease deals, you're talking about a big organization that has an army of attorneys that's writing a lease that you're now inheriting... So they've got all of their pain points they've experienced over the past 20-30 years - they're all in that lease. So it's a lengthy document.
Ash Patel: Yeah. One of our stipulations that we ran into was a sight line provision; we had a strip mall with a Dollar Tree, giant parking lot in front of the Dollar Tree that we didn't need, so we wanted to build an outlot. Luckily, we found that Dollar Tree had literally three sentences in a 60-page lease that said that they had a sight line provision from the footprint of the Dollar Tree to the main road, you can't obstruct it at all. So you can't have a Tractor Supply there that's going to put [unintelligible 00:26:47.11] You literally can't have any obstructions at all. So three sentences in a 50-60 page lease can make millions of dollars of difference in the value of a property.
Dave Codrea: And knowing that scenario -- you remember that now; you're never gonna forget that one. But when you first read that, you're like, "Oh, so you just have to go see the building. Alright, that's no big deal. Let's go for it." It's like, wait a minute here. That precludes you from so much stuff down the road.
Ash Patel: You know what, I think you're absolutely right. When we first read it, we just assumed that they wanted people in their cars to be able to see the big Dollar Tree building. But in reality, when we were trying to sell the outlot, we were like, "Oh, we've got to be cognizant of that, that we can't obstruct that." So yeah, you're right, it didn't mean much at the time, but when it came down to it, it was a huge deal. Dave, what is your best real estate investing advice ever?
Dave Codrea: Ever - I would say you have to know why your investment is going to do well. What that means to me is that every time we're buying an asset, or even when I first got started, I wanted to know all the details around the deal of what that tenant is gonna be like, where do they work, how is this deal going to make money, and why am I confident that this is the right decision to do. And it's not to just over-analyze and know it, but you need to know why your deal is good, and you have to believe that. So if you can do that, and you can find out that unique angle, the niche that you have, that makes your deal a good deal, then I think you're in a better position than if you're just buying something because you see an opportunity.
Ash Patel: Dave, you make this look easy. You've had an incredible run, you've had a tremendous amount of success... What's one of the hardest lessons you've learned in real estate, where either you lost money, a lesson about partnerships...? Give us something that our audience can take something away from and you don't want them to repeat the same mistake.
Dave Codrea: Scaling an organization is certainly a challenge, and coming with that is the idea of when you face challenges in your business, there's a big difference between deferring them and delegating them. So you have this big issue and you're like, "Well, so and so, you help just handle this." And it's like, "Well, what does that mean?" No one's going to do anything exactly how you want to do it. If that person doesn't do it exactly how you wanted it done, that's your fault. It's not their fault. You've got to give them more clarity and direction and understanding of what your expectations were.
So a lot of the time when things don't work like that, or problems don't get solved, you have got to know that it's back on you for leadership. So I think being comfortable that and knowing that things come back, they're normally kind of come back to you. And it's not because the other person did a bad job, it's because you need to do a better job.
Ash Patel: And on your way to scaling to millions of square feet under management, were there some specific cases where you were taught that lesson?
Dave Codrea: Oh, certainly. We just finished a retail deal, and it's a great deal, and it looks awesome. It's here in Atlanta, but it took us over three years to do the full buildout. And three years [unintelligible 00:29:44.09] about anything. Three years is too long. We're not building a power plant here, we're building a retail 25,000 square foot building. So when we acquired the deal, we were looking around things like "Oh, we can solve this problem." We had a problem with a sewer line; we were like "That won't be a big deal. We can solve that." We got a $25,000 discount on the acquisition for it. It took us two years and $300,000 to fix. So that was something that we were probably a little overconfident in our ability to do something, and we were like, "We've seen similar stuff to this, so we can do it." We got a discount, we were happy with it... But we didn't know what we didn't know. And that one took a long time.
Ash Patel: Yeah, lesson learned. Won't happen again.
Dave Codrea: Yeah. Sewers - don't mess with those. You've got to know everything about that. Those are not going in quickly.
Ash Patel: Dave, are you ready for the Best Ever lightning round?
Dave Codrea: Sure. Let's do it.
Ash Patel: Alright, Dave, what's the Best Ever book you've recently read?
Dave Codrea: Recently... "Into thin air", which is an older book by Jon Krakauer. It's awesome. I love adventure-based books, and that's a great one.
Ash Patel: What's the Best Ever way you like to give back?
Dave Codrea: We try and give back to tenants. So right now we're doing a free summer camp for our residential tenants. It's in Gainesville, Georgia, and it's an incredible experience that we're doing.
Ash Patel: And Dave, how can the Best Ever listeners reach out to you?
Dave Codrea: The best way is our website, which is Greenleafmgmt.com, or message me on LinkedIn. I'm on that one frequently.
Ash Patel: Awesome. Dave, I've got to thank you for your time today. You're a unicorn in this industry that's transitioned from multifamily to commercial real estate. Thanks for sharing a lot of the nuances, lessons learned, and your successes with our audience today.
Dave Codrea: Thanks. I enjoyed it very much, Ash.
Ash Patel: Best Ever listeners, thank you for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a five star review, share this podcast with someone you think can benefit from it. Also, follow, subscribe and have a Best Ever day.
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