Jeremy Dyer is the founder and managing partner of Starting Point Capital, which raises capital through co-GP and SPV structures. In this episode, Jeremy discusses why he prefers working with vertically integrated sponsors, the deal-specific questions he asks to evaluate investments, and the lessons he’s learned from not doing due diligence on sponsors.
Jeremy Dyer | Real Estate Background
- Founder and managing partner of Starting Point Capital
- 24 LP investments (mostly multifamily)
- Three GP deals
- Three fund-of-funds deals
- Based in: Minneapolis, MN
- Say hi to him at:
- Best Ever Book: The Hands-Off Investor by Brian Burke
- Greatest Lesson: Dig deep as an LP into the sponsor. It’s not enough to know, like, and trust them.
Click here to learn more about our sponsors:
Ash Patel: Hello, Best Ever listeners. Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I'm Ash Patel and I'm with today's guest, Jeremy Dyer. Jeremy is joining us from Minneapolis, Minnesota. He is the founder and Managing Partner of Starting Point Capital. He is a passive real estate investment educator and raises capital through co-GPs and SPVs. Jeremy's portfolio consists of 24 LP investments, mostly in multifamily, three GP deals, and three fund of fund deals. Jeremy, thank you for joining us, and how are you today?
Jeremy Dyer: Ash, thank you for having me today.
Ash Patel: It's our pleasure. Jeremy, before we get started, can you give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and what you're focused on now?
Jeremy Dyer: Yeah, I'd be happy to do that, thank you for asking. So when I had gotten done with college, I kind of catapulted my way in the sales professional world to really the top of the leaderboard. And one great benefit of being so successful in a sales type of role is you have the opportunity to not only max out things like your 401k, pay off your dream home, but also look into alternative assets to invest in.
So my wife and I back in 2012, we decided to try our hand at active real estate investing, and started investing actively into fix and flip opportunities, where we would buy homes that needed some tender loving care; we would manage those assets, we would put 10k, 20k, 30k, 40k, 50k dollars into those assets, and turn them over to an eventual other buyer, which oftentimes was a single family home resident that was looking to buy a turnkey asset.
We were looking to scale that business and grow, but the challenge was is at the same time I had two children that were actively involved in year-round sports, and I had two more on the way. So we doubled down, went from two kids to four kids, and life was getting a little bit crazy at the time, and the active side of the real estate business, mainly the fix and flip side, was becoming a second full-time job for both my wife and I. So at the time, we made the decision to exit active real estate investing, and instead started passively investing through real estate syndications.
Back in 2015 I didn't even know what the word syndication meant. Instead, I networked my way into an active operator/sponsor that was actively managing a real estate syndication business. He encouraged me to invest in him. I use the shotgun approach. I threw six figures at the deal, held my breath, plug my nose, and a few years later, all things went well. I doubled my money, and from that point on, I've been hooked on the strategy.
Ash Patel: What was it that you were selling out of college that you were so successful at?
Jeremy Dyer: Great question. So I would say that I was a natural born salesman. I was always that guy that would go door to door, selling Christmas wreaths during the holidays. I was that guy that was selling packs of bubblegum to friends in junior high. I was that guy that was really just trying to make a buck anywhere I could, selling just about anything, whether that was a product-related thing, or certainly my talents. And when I got into college, I really got involved in the banking industry, and sold a lot of financial products to really get myself through college. And that was really the genesis of where my sales career really started, was in my college years, and then obviously that transition into my corporate life once I exited the college scene.
Ash Patel: Alright, Jeremy, so 2015 was a good time to be an investor in syndications. Returns were upwards of 20% IRR for most deals; you had a great exit, you doubled your money... What were your next steps?
Jeremy Dyer: Great question. So I would say in 2015, and '16, and '17, I was really apprehensive, because at the time, that was the first time that I had invested as a passive investor, where I found a sponsor that I knew, liked and trusted, and had a great track record. So I was really apprehensive at that time. It wasn't until 2018-2019 where I really started to double down on the strategy. So in 2018-2019 I took a little bit of a hiatus, and 2020 for obvious reasons, but then back again in 2022. And now, '23, is really where I started to accelerate my investments passively, and I'm currently, as you mentioned, in 24 deals, most of which are in multifamily. All of them are where I'm a limited partner in those particular investments.
Ash Patel: Those 24 deals - how many different operators?
Jeremy Dyer: Six different operators, and those operators are primarily focused in markets like the Carolinas, Texas, Arizona, and the Midwest.
Ash Patel: Where in the Midwest?
Jeremy Dyer: Primarily Ohio, specifically Columbus, Ohio, Nashville, Tennessee, Memphis, Tennessee, and also Lexington, Kentucky.
Ash Patel: Interesting. So you've got some hotspots, and some places that are below the radar. They haven't boomed or busted. What was the strategy behind that?
Jeremy Dyer: I would say that the strategy behind that was more so that I knew the operator that was active in that space. And those were the particular markets that this particular operator primarily focuses on, which is the genesis of why I'm also invested with multiple operators, because other operators have a tendency to focus on other markets. So I really did it for more of a risk diversification perspective. So I encourage, not only myself, but encourage other investors to not just be siloed into investing into one operator, but rather invest with multiple operators as a diversification strategy, that are focused in multiple different markets.
Ash Patel: Let's dive into that diversification. Are these all Class A, B, C properties? Or what's the mix?
Jeremy Dyer: Most of the multifamily investment properties that I invest into are going to be your light to moderate value-add. Most are built-in the '70s, '80s, '90s, most of which are 100% classic interior units, and all of those units need to be repositioned, so that obviously, through a forced appreciation strategy, those rents can be brought up to or exceed the proforma expectations that the operator projects during the underwriting process.
Ash Patel: Do you care how many units are in each property?
Jeremy Dyer: I wouldn't say that I'm necessarily laser-focused on the total number of units within each property, but I have to have confidence that the operator has, either through a vertically integrated strategy, or they've got a great A class, A property management company that has boots on the ground in that particular area. I have to have confidence in that sponsor or operator's ability to pull off the business plan, depending upon the total number of units that they're looking to acquire and ultimately manage.
Ash Patel: Alright, Jeremy, you've got four kids, and my guess is you don't have a favorite. You have six operators. Can you rank them from least to most favorite? I don't want you to do that, but in your mind, do you have favorites?
Jeremy Dyer: I do absolutely have favorites, and there are sponsors that I work with today that are vertically integrated, that I feel more comfortable working with in this type of an environment that weren't today. And I have other operators that I can maybe through a smell test/stress test of what their proforma expectations and projections are, I can tell that they're being a little bit more aggressive in terms of the IRR that they're projecting to their investors, whereas others I feel more confident in the projections that they're making to investors are a little bit more conservative. And how I'm able to evaluate that is obviously by the questions that I present to the operators that are ultimately managing that business plan, to really ask them "Are those expectations or projections realistic? And what happens, by the way, if you don't hit those projected expectations in your proforma?"
Ash Patel: You mentioned things are a little bit different today. So going forward, if you had the opportunity, would you invest in the least favorite of the six operators, if they had a great deal?
Jeremy Dyer: I would say that I would have to look at that deal in the same lens that I look at other investment opportunities. There's a lot of operators in the space today that as the tide is going out, primarily forced as a direct result of higher interest rates on deals, and the fact that they're debt financing wasn't fixed rate, but rather a floater, we're seeing some operators that are going to be caught with their pants down as the tide goes out. We're seeing that right now, where some operators are finding distressed opportunities where they're able to acquire assets at a 20% discount from what they were able to be obtained with a year ago. And I'm not saying that necessarily that that operator that would be the least of these wouldn't be an operator that I would invest with again; I would just need to make sure that I'm very confident and comfortable with the fact that that operator learned their lesson, whatever that lesson might have happened to be.
The reality is is there's no crystal ball in real estate. Real estate has a tendency to fall apart. I'm stealing this from a colleague, but "Fish swim, birds fly, and real estate has a tendency to fall apart." And really, when an LP makes that decision to invest with a particular sponsor, you're really putting a lot of trust in that sponsor's ability to pull off that value-add business plan. And sometimes they get it right, and unfortunately, sometimes they get it wrong. But it's really up to the LP investor to do their own due diligence, to know and have full faith and confidence that they've de-risked the deal, and that that particular investment opportunity aligns well with that individual investor's goals.
Ash Patel: Yeah, gone are the days where you could blindly put money into an operator because they've had a great run. I've been there, I invested in a mobile home park with two operators that I thought the world of, and this deal just completely fell apart. Communication was horrible. Lesson learned... Back then, we heard "Invest in the operators." Today it's "Invest in the operators, and the deal." So what deal-specific questions would you ask today?
Jeremy Dyer: From a deal-specific perspective, I really want to dive into what type of property management company they have on staff; is it a boots on the ground operator, is it vertically integrated? What does the team look like? Because the reality is in the multifamily space the sponsor or syndication team might be a team of one, it might be a team of five, it might be a team of 180. So you really have to look at the team that that particular sponsor is surrounded by.
But outside of that, looking to the actual specific deal, what market is that located in? We know, for example, that Fresno, California is probably in a recession. We know that Phoenix, Arizona, for example, might be in hyper-supply. We might know that Dallas, and Houston, for example, might be still in that expansion phase. We might know that Columbus, Ohio has a lot of government and corporate spending happening in that market, which could ultimately bode well in the multifamily space.
So we're not just evaluating the sponsor, we're obviously evaluating the market that that specific asset is located in, and then beyond that, it comes down to what those projections are, and does the limited partner investor feel competent and comfortable with the fact that that particular sponsor at this point in time, in that specific market, is going to be able to execute on the projections that they have expressed in their deal deck or presentation.
Ash Patel: If somebody has a giant staff of people, do you worry that their overhead is too high, and that they're doing deals just to keep that machine going?
Jeremy Dyer: It's certainly most definitely a concern, because I think some sponsors are hungry for the acquisition fee, they're hungry for the asset management fee, and in order to keep the lights on, they need to continue to do deals. So that is most certainly a concern that all investors need to weigh, which is one of the other reasons why I'm a very big proponent of diversification of market and of sponsor. I invest personally into sponsors that have nearly 2 billion in assets under management, and I invest with sponsors that maybe only have 50 million in assets under management. The same story can be true when you talk to a financial advisor; they're going to encourage you to diversify in large-cap stocks, small-cap stocks, and they might even encourage you to try to get lucky and find the next Tesla stock or Facebook stock as an example. So investing in real estate is very much a diversification play, and that's really the message that I like to share.
Ash Patel: What's a question or two that you can ask an operator to see if they are in it for fees, or if it's truly a great deal and really find out about their overhead?
Jeremy Dyer: That's a great question. And really, it comes down to what does that asset management fee look like, and where is it that those dollars are being spent? And do I feel comfortable in the response from the operator that they give me? I'm a really big fan of operators taking the acquisition fee and reinvesting that back into the business. Not necessarily to pay their overhead, but rather to continue to build out their business, whether that means building out new relationships with other property management companies, or that means them building up their underwriting base, so that they can in the future be in a good position to take down better deals. Whether that means building up their broker relationships with other brokers, that they can have more access to better deals or more deal flow.
Ash Patel: Jeremy, having in-house property management versus third party - your thoughts on that.
Jeremy Dyer: Yeah, I'm a really big fan of the vertically-integrated property management companies. And the reason for that is because I know that it's likely that that vertically-integrated property management company is a client of one. So the main operator is the customer for that vertically-integrated property management company, and it just gives me a lot more assurance that there's not going to be a disconnect between the strategy and the vision of the operator and the strategy and vision of the property management company.
Not to say that hiring a third party property management company isn't a good business plan or strategy, because there are certainly great third party property management companies out there that exist today. It's just because I don't know who they are, I haven't properly vetted out that property management company, I don't know whether or not that particular firm, at that particular time is going to be a good fit for that particular investment.
Ash Patel: Got it. Out of the 24 deals that you're passively invested in, have any of them paused, perhaps currently?
Jeremy Dyer: Great question. So I have two deals that have capital calls, and I have a couple of deals that have suspended distributions. So one of the capital calls is a assisted living facility where a capital call was necessary, because the property management company that was kept on staff was likely kept on staff too long. So it was primarily an occupancy issue, and it was an expense issue.
The other capital call with another multifamily property that I'm invested into was largely a debt issue, meaning that a floater was acquired without a rate cap; the rate is in excess of 8% right now, and it's really a debt problem. It's still a great deal, expenses are still in line as a line item expense on the deal. The deal is still achieving above average rents on the proforma, in terms of what was expected. 40% of the asset has been turned over, 100% of the exterior has been completed, the assets been under management for about a year to 18 months right now... So it's still a great property, and I'm very optimistic about the outcome, but some additional cash is needed on that deal in order to keep it afloat.
Ash Patel: So the only trauma it suffered was the property management company, and that's what threw this off the rails?
Jeremy Dyer: That's right.
Ash Patel: Interesting. Okay. How was that communication on the capital call? Was it email? Was it in-person? Over the phone? Because delivering bad news to investors is not fun. But I think there's a lot to be learned from how the operators go about doing that.
Jeremy Dyer: Great question. The communication to investors did take place multiple different ways. Certainly a phone call was made to those LP investors that were involved in that deal. The investors all received an email communication, stating what the situation was, how we got here, what our plan is for action moving forward... And then a webinar was also scheduled with the LP investors to be able to talk directly with the sponsors.
So I feel as though the communication on that particular deal was done effectively, which is a main reason why I will continue to and have continued to invest with that particular sponsor, because of their transparency. And they were very transparent very early on, many months before they knew they were going to be in this type of a situation with the debt service coverage ratio nearing one. They were very transparent with to investors to let them know what the challenges are, and what the challenges are going to be, quite frankly, over the course of the next several months, as they looked to reposition the strategy with that particular investment.
Ash Patel: Yeah, what a great learning lesson there. And you pointed out you still have confidence in them because of their transparency. In terms of timing, did they let you know that things weren't going well, were having issues? Or was it "Alright, we finally need to break it to our investors. Hey, guys and girls, this property management company didn't work out. We've got to replace them"? How early Did they let you know that there's trouble on the horizon?
Jeremy Dyer: I would say that I knew within a matter of weeks, if not days, that trouble was on the horizon, and I'm relatively confident that the other LP investors that are invested into that same deal are as well... Which - again, it all comes down to the reputation of the sponsor. It's not something that should be hidden from LP investors when the sponsor is having challenges. Because as I mentioned before, there's always challenges in real estate. It's what's the flavor of the month, or something's on the horizon, and how is the sponsor going to react to that, and how have they been stress-tested in the past? How have they skinned their knees in the past? Where are some of these areas of opportunity for the sponsors? And I'm very comfortable and competent in the sponsor's ability to really turn this asset around, which is why I'm going to continue to invest with them, and also invest into this deal where they need some additional capital.
Ash Patel: Yeah, that's amazing. Great example of how to do things correctly.
Ash Patel: On this capital call, you have the option of course of investing more capital or not. If you choose not to invest, do you get liquidated at a higher percentage than if you did invest? So I guess what I'm saying is the people that are investing, are they getting rewarded much higher, and the people that are not investing - are they getting penalized severely?
Jeremy Dyer: If you choose not to participate in the capital call, there's certainly going to be a dilution of your shares.
Ash Patel: Sorry, a better way to ask that question - is it pro rata, or is it penalizing?
Jeremy Dyer: It would be pro rata, and there would absolutely certainly be a penalty on the shared dilution side of it if an investor chooses to not participate in a capital call. But those that do choose to participate in a capital call, oftentimes the good sponsors are willing to give up a percentage of their equity, to in other words juice the deal for the limited partner investors that are willing to hang on for the ride, so to speak.
Ash Patel: Yeah. And the reason I asked that - we invested in a boxing gym that went horribly sideways, and they're doing a capital call now. For the investors that put additional money in, they get an X dollars times four number of shares. So those that don't invest - they're not being diluted pro rata, they're being diluted exponentially. So you've got to put good money after bad, or there's no chance of you getting any returns. It's holding us hostage. I think this is a sinking ship, I don't think it's going anywhere, but that wasn't cool to see. Pro rata, I can understand; or maybe a little bit of a reward. Interesting. What's the other deal that's got a capital call?
Jeremy Dyer: That would be in the assisted living space, and as I mentioned before, it's primarily a property management challenge, where the property management team that was on hand at the time that the deal was acquired was just kept on hand too long. They weren't performing according to the expectations of the new sponsor, and they needed to be replaced. And again, the challenge there was really on the expense containment side, as well as the occupancy.
Ash Patel: Jeremy, right now you do a fund to funds model, so you took your experience investing as an LP and you now take other people's capital, and invest that I'm assuming alongside of you?
Jeremy Dyer: That's correct. To show alignment of interest, I always invest my own money into every deal that I help raise capital on.
Ash Patel: Do you invest first, or do you invest with other people? Meaning, do you try out the sponsors first on your own?
Jeremy Dyer: Yeah, every sponsor that I raised investor capital for, I have personally invested my own money into two or three or 10 times before I've chosen to invest -- or before I've chosen to raise capital on any of their future investment opportunities.
Ash Patel: What were the steps required to become a capital raiser?
Jeremy Dyer: It was a lot of education. So when I first made the decision to become a capital raiser in the real estate space, it was only after I had invested into two dozen deals myself as a limited partner investor. It was only after I started to educate myself by reading multiple books, listening to multiple podcasts, staying current on the market... And knowing that I had a network bench, so to speak, where I could go to, where I knew that there was capital from individuals that were looking to diversify their way outside of Wall Street.
Ash Patel: In terms of a legal perspective, did you just go through a fund management company to set that up?
Jeremy Dyer: I did, yes. I hired an SEC attorney to set up a fund to structure so that I am the fund manager of the fund of funds company that was formed.
Ash Patel: And have you had to deliver bad news to any of your co-investors?
Jeremy Dyer: I have not, thankfully, knock on wood. Hopefully, I've learned my lesson as an LP investor with a couple of deals that I've done in the past, where maybe more due diligence should have been done, either on the investment or on the particular sponsor. But so far, deals that I've personally invested my money into, that I've also brought other investors into, I feel very confident and competent in those sponsors to be able to deliver on the expectations that they've set forth.
Ash Patel: Jeremy, can you explain the difference between regular capital raiser and a licensed broker-dealer?
Jeremy Dyer: I can't.
Ash Patel: Okay. So a follow-up question is, a lot of people have become capital raisers, because it seems like an easy model. You play middle person between the investors and the operators. How do you find somebody that's a good intermediary, somebody that you don't want to do the legwork on all the operators - how can you find a good fund of fund sponsor that you can trust?
Jeremy Dyer: It really is going to be that person that is educated enough in the industry, that they have enough connections to the networking that they've done with other operators... Do they have a track record of other investors that have invested with them one time or multiple times? What particular markets are they focused in on? There are certain markets in the country that I'm not necessarily overly excited or would be overly excited to invest into. So it's really trying to find that capital raiser in the space that has the knowledge necessary in order to understand how to dance around a proforma statement, but second to that, making sure that that capital raiser or fund manager so to speak is aligned with sponsors that are really truly best-in-class, that have that track record, that have that team, that have struggled with adversity before. They've gone through histories like the global financial crisis in 2007 and 2008, they've certainly gone through the COVID pandemic, they've been able to weather the storm of high interest rates, and those types of things. So that's what I would say to that capital raiser.
Second to that would obviously be as what type of a bench do they have? Because not everybody that decides one day that they want to start raising capital for real estate syndications is actually able to get to the point in which that investor sends in that $50,000 or $100,000 wire transfer. So it's one thing to say "I think I can raise capital", it's another thing to actually do it.
Ash Patel: When you collectively pool your money, wire it to the syndicator, the communication from the syndicator to your investors all goes through you. Is that correct?
Jeremy Dyer: That's correct.
Ash Patel: What's the process like? They send you all the financials... Do you parse that or summarize it, and send it off to your investors? Or do you just forward it on as is?
Jeremy Dyer: No, I do parse it, as you say there. So I do reposition that communication, and I send that communication directly to my investor. So I'm not merely just taking a communication from the sponsor and forwarding it out to my investors, I'm instead taking what they've sent to me and then repositioning that in my own words, and sending that out to my investor base.
Ash Patel: Jeremy, all the assets that we hold right now, the non-residential commercial assets, we're a little skeptical on selling them, because the market's taking a hit, interest rates are higher, we don't really have to sell, and we're choosing not to. How is that affecting, out of the 24 deals that you're in, the multifamily deals - do they have an exit cap, exit price? And are those still realistic? And are you keeping tabs on that?
Jeremy Dyer: That's a good question. I would not say that I'm keeping tabs on what the expected exit cap rate is, because that's really nearly a crystal ball question, as we know. In real estate, that exit cap rate can change very quickly. However, I will say this, and that is that I have had a couple of deals that have gone full-cycle in two years, and the expected hold was five. I also have a deal that I'm in right now, that is beyond the sixth year, and the projected hold was five years. Well, why are we at year number six is primarily because the valuations have gone down. But that particular investment is also producing a cash on cash return that's an excess of 20% to the LP investors. So no investor would really want to get out of that deal anyways, if the general partner had decided to sell it.
Ash Patel: Good points. And I agree with you, we can't predict future exit caps. However, we can get today's value of those investments. Would it be worthwhile to look at that, and know that we can't sell today because it would not be profitable, but if we hold for 2, 3, 4 more years, what impact would rates that are not locked in have? What possible exit scenarios are there? Is it worth having those conversations with the operators?
Jeremy Dyer: I would say 100% it absolutely would be worth it to have those conversations with the operators. And I would also say that obviously when it comes to real estate, time has a tendency to heal a lot of wounds. In real estate, when it gets knocked down, it's just a matter of a number of months or a number of years before it gets knocked back up again, or it gets picked back up again.
So again, we're in a sticky time. I see a lot of operators holding on assets that maybe they had planned to sell... I think that's also making it a bit of a challenge for operators out there right now that are trying to look and find good opportunities. A lot of operators did lock in some good debt terms, so as a direct result of that, there's just less deal flow out there. But at the same token, there are a number of distressed sellers as well, so it's creating an interesting time between buyers and sellers.
1:Yeah, great points. Jeremy, what is your best real estate investing advice ever?
Jeremy Dyer: I would say that it would be as a limited partner and investor really dig deep into the sponsor; it's not just enough to know, like, and trust somebody. I have a lot of people in my life that I know, like and trust, that I would never trust with a fiduciary responsibility of $50,000 or $100,000.
We also hear a lot in the real estate game about betting on the jockey and the horse. I'm not super pumped up about that analogy, primarily because sometimes the jockey has a bad day, sometimes the horse has a bad day, too. But the analogy that I'd like to encourage limited partner investors to think about is you're really a passenger on an airline flight, and you're really putting your faith and trust that the pilot is going to get you to the destination from point A to point B. Now, certainly, as a passenger on that airplane, you might experience a little turbulence, your flight might be delayed taking off, it might be delayed coming in. You might not get the service that you expected from the flight crew etc. But at the end of the day, the sponsor, or in this case the pilots still got you to that destination where you wanted to go, without crashing and burning.
So every investment opportunity that I hope that I'm invested into and that I bring to other folks in this space, I just hope that those opportunities, while they might have some turbulence, the end result is still favorable for them, and I'm very confident that it will be.
Ash Patel: Jeremy, are you ready for the Best Ever Lightning Round?
Jeremy Dyer: Let's go, Ash.
Ash Patel: Alright, Jeremy, what's the Best Ever book you've recently read?
Jeremy Dyer: I'm going to say a couple of them. I'm a really big fans of "The hands-off investor" book by Brian Burke. I've sold a couple of hundred copies of it, have gotten no royalty. I recommend that all investors that have never previously invested into real estate before, I highly recommend that they read that book.
Another one that has been very life transformative for myself is "The lifestyle investor" book by Justin Donald. Very much a topic about how to structure deals properly and all the ins and outs of real estate investing and other investment strategies. And then thirdly, I'm a big fan of "The psychology of money" by Morgan Housel. Really helps the investor to know how to have a proper mindset about one of life's most confusing, but important topics, and that's money, and how it can be a powerful magnifying glass into why people behave the way they do.
Ash Patel: Jeremy, what's the Best Ever way you like to give back?
Jeremy Dyer: I'm a big fan of educating others about the real estate investing strategy, both through challenging people's mindsets, through education and providing passive, vetted real estate investing opportunities, where they can decrease the dependence on their W-2, and achieve that time freedom that we're all looking for. But second to that, I'm active in youth sports; I assist in hockey coach on three teams during the winter season, and support our local church and youth missions organizations.
Ash Patel: Jeremy, how can the Best Ever listeners reach out to you?
Jeremy Dyer: I would say that I'm relatively active on LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn under Jeremy Dyer, and you can certainly check out my website at startingpointcapital.com.
Ash Patel: Jeremy, thank you for your time today, giving us a candid look into your world on some of the deals that have gone well, how to handle deals that are not going well. We learned some important lessons about operators being transparent, being timely with that transparency, and earning the trust and respect of their investors. So thank you for sharing those lessons with us today.
Jeremy Dyer: Thank you for having me, Ash.
Ash Patel: Best Ever listeners, thank you for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a five star review, share this episode with someone you think and benefit from it. Also, follow, subscribe and have a Best Ever day.
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