May 7, 2023

JF3167: How Lucrative is Lending? ft. Tim Herriage



Tim Herriage is executive director at RCN Capital, a leading nationwide lender for real estate investments. In this episode, Tim discusses how to improve your chances of getting capital, how to be profitable in the lending business, and how to build a legacy by tracking net worth vs. cashflow. 


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Tim Herriage | Real Estate Background

  • Executive director at RCN Capital
  • Portfolio:
    • 7,000 loans per year across 45 states
  • Based in: South Windsor, CT
  • Say hi to him at: 
  • Best Ever Book: Start with Why by Simon Sinek
  • Greatest Lesson: Do one more, no matter what it is. If I had just kept one more home per year, it would be about $10 million more in net worth. Start keeping assets now, and let time do its thing.


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Ash Patel: Hello, Best Ever listeners. Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I'm Ash Patel, and I'm with today's guest, Tim Herriage. Tim is joining us from South Windsor, Connecticut. He is the executive director of RCN Capital, a private lending firm that lends to investors nationwide. Tim's portfolio consists of 7,000 loans annually, distributed across 45 states. Tim, thank you so much for joining us, and how are you today?

Tim Herriage: Ash, man, I'm happy to be here.

Ash Patel: And it's good to see you again. We met at the Best Ever Conference about a month ago, so thanks for taking the time out and joining us today.

Tim Herriage: Yeah, you're one of the favorite people I've met all year. You brought that energy, man. I love to be around positive people.

Ash Patel: Likewise. I feel bad for everyone around us, because no one else probably got to talk... [laughter]

Tim Herriage: No, they didn't. They didn't.

Ash Patel: Tim, before we get started, can you give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and what you're focused on now?

Tim Herriage: Yeah, so the cliff notes version - 20 years ago, 22 years ago I got out of the Marine Corps. I was an intelligence analyst, started out as a project manager in the real estate investing space here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, got into wholesaling, worked for a couple other home investors, the Ugly House people companies, went out on my own IN 2004, bought a HomeVestors franchise, was number one of the nation for a couple years, almost lost everything in the Great Recession, but found a way to fight through it... Started a little company called the REI Expo, which I sold to Think Realty; it's now the Think Realty Expo. I met up with a small group called Blackstone, you've probably heard of them... We started B2R finance in 2013. That became Finance of America, which we took public in 2021, and I have known Jeff Tesh, the founder and CEO of RCN for a little over 10 years now. We've just been great friends; I borrowed 10 million or more dollars from him. And after I took it public, he called me and said "Do you want to do it again?" and I said, "Yeah, why not?" So that's the summary of how I got to sit in this chair.

Ash Patel: Did you have a non-compete when you went public and sold it?

Tim Herriage: Yeah. Until change of control occurred, I was kind of stuck on the sidelines.

Ash Patel: And what is REI Expo?

Tim Herriage: It was an Expo that I created in 2010, because we were coming out of the Great Recession, and nobody was doing meetups, and I missed the HomeVestors Convention, that feel of getting together with your peers... So it started out as just a little 200-person thing in Dallas, and before I sold it in 2013, our last event that I was in charge of we had a little over 1,800 people at the fourth annual event in Dallas. So it was a bunch of breakout sessions... It's kind of a conference model. It's very popular today; a bunch of vendors, a bunch of breakout sessions, thousands of investors just wanting to grow and learn.

Ash Patel: And what I know of you - you did it so you can go, have a good time, and meet a bunch of people.

Tim Herriage: Pretty much, because we didn't make money. [laughter] My wife was always "Why are we doing this? We don't make money doing that." I'm like, "Yeah, you know... It's fun."

Ash Patel: Tim, over the years you've been exposed to a lot of different real estate assets, both personally and doing loans for others. Is the loan business that lucrative to where you haven't become a giant multifamily syndicator?

Tim Herriage: So I invest in syndications. I invest in multifamily and commercial syndications, personally. I still buy single-family houses... But my attraction to the lending industry really came from having started with nothing, and having not been BRRR-ing for 20 years. And when you don't start with a lot, you've got to find a way to make what you have go a long way. So that was how I got into lending, was by necessity, and it's just something that I've excelled at, I've gravitated towards, and I find very exciting, because I'm always helping other people achieve their goals.

Ash Patel: Who do you lend to?

Tim Herriage: Our average customer owns three or four houses, and a large percentage of our loans these days are DSCR loans on single family residences in 45 states. It's the mom and pop investors that Wall Street likes to call them. We don't loan to big companies. It's the individual investors out there that are doing it right every day.

Ash Patel: Are they investors, or are they borrowing money for another reason?

Tim Herriage: Well, we've run a lot of surveys; typically, they are refinancing a home so that they can pull their cash out so they can go pursue another investment opportunity. We get a lot of people that - they'll refinance four or five houses, take 100k and put it into a multifamily deal, or an office deal. We do a lot of fix and flip loans. Clearly, they're buying, fixing, selling. We do a lot of multifamily bridge loans on like the - call it 8 to 20 unit, the smaller asset class that the Fannie and Freddie loans aren't typically great for. So we fill that niche of being a private lender across those assets.

Ash Patel: Do you care what they use the money for?

Tim Herriage: I would rather them not say they were gonna go buy a Lamborghini, but it's an asset-based loan. So as long as the property cash-flows and the use of proceeds - they're not going to go start a drug cartel, we kind of stay out of that.

Ash Patel: So it's not even a question that comes up, is it? Or is it on the application?

Tim Herriage: The use of proceeds is on the application. And typically, our focus is trying to determine are they a rate shopper or are they a proceeds shopper? Are they trying to get cash out, or are they just trying to restructure their debt? That's on the long-term stuff. On the short term stuff we do care a little bit more about how are they going to pay us back. How are they going to do the value-add? How are they going to complete the project? And ultimately, we're not in the loan to own business, so we want to make sure they can pay it back.

Ash Patel: Does that mean you don't do 30-year mortgages?

Tim Herriage: On the fix and flip we do mainly 12-month mortgages. On the DSCR, the rental loans, those are 30-year fixed=rate mortgages.

Ash Patel: Can you explain what a DSCR loan is?

Tim Herriage: Yes.

Ash Patel: A lot of popularity... And look, the posts that I see - and I don't really know what it is, but a lot of the posts that I see is "Oh no, DSCR loans are back." What are people talking about?

Tim Herriage: Debt Service Coverage Ratio. And I've been trying to translate this for 10 years now... Because I sat in a boardroom in Manhattan in 2013, and this commercial banker was like, "You know, it's a DSCR loan." And I'm like, "No, I bought thousands of houses and I have no idea what a DSCR is." So think of it like the debt to income of the property. And you'll hear it expressed as a ratio; they'll say 1.2 DSCR. That's 1.2x. There's a little X after it. And whatever your principal, interest, taxes, insurance and associations are on a monthly basis. So the easiest way for the listener to break it down - if your payment on the mortgage is $1,000, including your principal, your interest, your taxes, and your insurance, and any homeowners associations, we want the rent to be 1.2 or 1.1, that's the ratio, times that payment. So for easy math, if your payment's $1,000 and it's a 1.2x DSCR loan, we need you to be getting $1,200 rent for the property.

Ash Patel: Which I don't see as a problem. Why are people worried about that?

Tim Herriage: I have no idea. The DSCR loans - I opine on my time in the financial crisis when there was no money available. And those of us that were still in the business, there were deals all around, but there was no money available. And this time around there's a lot of capital available for investors, and a lot of it has to do with the DSCR loans, because they have prepayment penalties... So the bond buyers on Wall Street love it, because it's a little bit higher rate, the rates are in the low 6's right now. It's a 30-year fixed rate, but there's a five-year prepayment penalty, so they know how much money they're going to make by buying the mortgage.

Ash Patel: So there's not going to be a run on people paying off their mortgages early.

Tim Herriage: That's right. Which is one of the reasons that the homeowner loans are so expensive right now. They're more expensive than they should be, because the servicers and the people that own those are worried about if we hit a recession later this year, and rates go down, are they all just going to get refinanced? So I think we're actually at a unique time -- when we started doing DSCR loans on single homes in 2015, it was about 2% more expensive for a DSCR loan than a homeowner loan. And now we're actually at an interesting time where DSCR loans can actually be cheaper than 30-year Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac homeowner loans.

Ash Patel: Interesting. What's the downside of those? Are there more points upfront?

Tim Herriage: Typically there's more points, because the investors are buying the rates down. So par pricing, which would be the price without any points, on a DSCR right now is about seven and a half with decent credit. But a lot of our customers are paying two to four points to buy the rate down into the low sixes. So they're paying three or four points on the front, and they have that 5% prepay. It's 5% in year one, 4% in year two, so on and so forth for the first five years.

Ash Patel: Tim, you're pretty humble guy... Explain to us how big RCN Capital is.

Tim Herriage: We are growing in this crazy market, we are focused on growth. We did about 1.4 billion last year in loan transactions. And we have an audacious goal of 1.7 billion this year. And I'll tell you the number here on the screen - it's 5 billion. We're gonna get to 5 billion a year in originations.

Ash Patel: Did you set out to fill that niche of those up and coming investors, or to just fall into place? Because that's an area where a lot of lenders - it's not their bread and butter; they want people maybe that are a little bit bigger, or maybe they want first-time homebuyers, whatever it is... But it's like that underserved market, where as you're coming up, you're running out of loans, and you've exhausted some options, and then here you guys are. Did you set out to fill that niche?

Tim Herriage: Yeah, absolutely. The founder and CEO of RCN, Jeff Tesh, good friend of mine - we knew the loans with Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac - a lot of people tapped out; they couldn't get any more. They could get up to 10, but then it had to do with their debt to income ratio, and that was just a complicated process... And ultimately, we believe in housing. And we love the asset, because -- our buddy [unintelligible 00:11:33.25] we did a survey, and most people prefer to live indoors. So food, water and shelter, housing is a necessity... Investors across the country create affordable housing, they create opportunities in established neighborhoods... And when you look at just the math, the average investor will buy seven houses in seven years, whereas the average homeowner will only do 2.3 transactions. So it made a lot of sense to create a company that catered to the customers that's going to come back to the well more frequently.

Ash Patel: Tim, all the headlines today are lenders are in huge trouble, because real estate's in trouble. You guys are more short-term... But what are you seeing on the market? Are you seeing higher defaults? Are you seeing less volume? Are you changing how you're lending because of the economic climate today?

Tim Herriage: So like I said earlier, we're not a loan to own company, so we don't want to foreclose. Do we have to foreclose every now and then? Yes. I'll tell you, typically it's the borrower that just won't communicate with us anymore. They go into their shell and they hide... Because we would always rather work it out and help them get the loan paid off. Now we're not seeing a rash of defaults... We've seen some lenders go under in the last 12 months, some bad capital market strategies... The race to the bottom over the last three years of who can do the lowest rate and the highest leverage - we don't like to play musical chairs, so there was a lot of times in '21 and '22 that we probably lost out on loans that other people got, but we stayed really disciplined in our credit criteria... Just like I do in my investment business. And when you stay disciplined, you can typically avoid the downturn.

So we've got markets across the nation that are down 20%, 25% some markets... But when you look at our fix and flip loans, our short-term loans, the average loan to value is around 70. So you've got that built-in cushion. And on the DSCR loans, there was a time where the average leverage was getting up above 75%. But that's when rates were three and a quarter. Right now, I'd say the average loan to value on a 30-year fixed-rent alone is around 65 to 70. So we still feel very protected, because there's equity in the asset for our customer; if they did hit a road bomb, they should be able to get out of the house and pay off the loan.

Ash Patel: How often do you get people that come up to you and say, "I've got this great deal. I need full financing on the purchase, and I need full financing on the rehab"?

Tim Herriage: All the time... But with the right track record, with the right experience, with a bank account that is full of cash, we can look at those 100% financing scenarios at a 70% loan to value. What we don't do is look at a bank account with constant non-sufficient funds, or no money in it, and then give you 100% financing. Because at that point, we're just setting you up for failure. You're not going to have the money to handle any overages or your interest payments, and the conversations we're gonna have to have are just not going to be fun for any of us.

Ash Patel: I was joking, but you would really do that.

Tim Herriage: Yeah, for the right investor. Like, if you have someone that is actively let's just say fix and flipping in DFW, in Dallas Fort Worth, and they've got 30 or 40 transactions they've done in the last three years, and they can show us their experience, and we can look at their P&L and cash flow statements and see that they have the money, and it's a decision they're making for a return on equity, versus they're broke and they need 100% financing - yeah, we'll do those deals.

Ash Patel: Good to know. And I asked you this - I thought you said no, but correct me if I'm wrong... Will you lend on retail or industrial properties?

Tim Herriage: No, we don't. It has to have a residential component. And the residential component needs to be 51% or more in square footage, and in income. So we don't want the mixed-use building that is retail at the bottom floor, making five grand a month, and residential on the top two floors, but it only makes three grand. That's more commercial than it is residential, so we don't do those deals.

Break: [00:16:05.26]

Ash Patel: You mentioned for the right investor - how does somebody polish up their resume, their balance sheet to have the best chances of getting capital from you?

Tim Herriage: Ash, this is something I'm passionate about, because so many people don't put the work in to be bankable, and then they wait until they need money to get ready for money, and that's too late. So the first thing is your credit report; you've got to keep your eye on the ball there, you need to be signed up for identity monitoring, because there's just a massive difference as a lender between a 719 credit score and a 720 credit score. And it may seem like only one point, but we have buckets, and if you're at the 719, you fall in the 680 to 719 bucket. If you're at a 720, you're in the 720 to 780 bucket.

So I'd say number one, your credit score. Number two, your track record. It's the one thing in this business you cannot buy. You and I could partner and we can share track records, right? We can go raise capital using my track record and your track record. But if I go on and do another deal and you're not a part of that, I don't get to keep using your track record. So too many investors, they don't have it in a summary format where they can share it... But "Oh, well, I bought 32 houses last year, and made $1.7 million." It's more like "Yeah, I do a couple a month, and... Oh yeah, we're killing it." So doing a better job at maintaining a historical calculation and tabulation of what you've done, what type of transactions you've done, and your successes and failures goes a long way.

Ash Patel: So let's dive into that. You want a presentable lenders packet, right? And everybody should have one, really. Look, at the very least, everybody should be doing their balance sheet at least once a year. My apartment people especially, I know you measure everything by number of doors at these conferences... "How many doors do you have?" And you met Tom - he went through his house and counted the number of bathroom and closet doors, and literally would tell people "This many bathroom doors, closet doors." But monthly cash flow or passive income is another metric people use. But my opinion is the number that doesn't lie is your personal net worth, your personal balance sheet; take all of your assets, take all of your liabilities, and the number that's left is the one number that doesn't lie. So everybody, just for that reason alone - measure your year-over-year success. Keep that balance sheet updated. But what else should people have in the lenders packet? You mentioned somebody said "I've flipped 32 houses last year." Do you want a line item on Excel for date purchased, sold, profit? Or do you just want pictures? Or do you just want "Hey, this is what I've done."

Tim Herriage: It doesn't have to be complicated. I'll tell you, the easiest borrowers to finance though - they have a schedule of real estate owned. If you're out there, just google "personal financial statement in Excel", and download one; it's four to eight pages... And keep it up to date. If you buy a house and keep it as a rental, stick it on there. If you're actively turning inventory of any kind, just keep a log; 123 Main Street, bought for 50, spent 50, sold for 150, and days on the market, or how long you owned it.

What I find is oftentimes people that are organized give me too much. And it's great; as a lender, there's no such thing as too much. But there's a big disparity between too much and nothing. So yeah, just a list of things you've done, addresses and numbers... Start small. If you don't have it and you're listening, start with something right now; just open Excel on your computer and type in everything you own for now.

But yeah, I think a personal financial statement -- my wife and I, we update ours every month, and that's the first thing I send a lender... Because like you said, it's going to show my net worth, it's going to show my holdings, and it's going to tell a lot better story than my tax returns, because I'm broke on paper.

Ash Patel: You lose money every year, yeah.

Tim Herriage: Yeah. So we don't even look at personal tax returns. But the personal financial statement, a nice little track record form - those things go a long way.

Ash Patel: You mentioned something - your wife and you look at your personal balance sheet every month. For a lot of real estate people, our spouses probably have very little clue about what we do. My wife trusts me more than she should, so she doesn't even know half the properties we own. But I make it a point when I update my balance sheet to either send it to her, sit down with her, line graphs, year over year net worth. It gives your significant other a better idea of what you're doing, your successes; that's important.

Another tip that I'm going to share - and tell me if this is wrong - is different lenders, they'll say, "Hey, fill out our personal financial statement." And they each have a different Excel spreadsheet. I've never once filled out their version; if you just give them yours, that's typically adequate, right?

Tim Herriage: Absolutely.

Ash Patel: Good. You're okay seeing mine. I don't have to spend three hours filling out your four-page form.

Tim Herriage: Especially if you produce it really fast. As a lender, I'm like, "Okay, this guy is buttoned up." Now, if you say "I don't have one", I send you my form, and then two weeks later you send in some random version - yeah, I may ask you to put it on my form, but... We don't require it. I just recommend it. Because also - you said something very important, communication with your spouse. Oftentimes in this industry, as we all know, you can be real estate rich and cash poor. And if you're only judging your business by how much cash is in the bank, you're probably only tracking your income and not your net worth, or your wealth. And I think we all agree that the key to this is to build a legacy. And the way you do that is track it, measure it, and celebrate it. I remember the day I realized I was a millionaire. It was cool. And as you continue in this industry long enough, you'll have other milestones. You'll cross the five mark, you'll cross the 10 mark. And those are just good things to know and good things to see. And like you said, chart out the history.

A buddy of mine, Eddie Speed, said there's transactional money and there's wealth, and you should keep a track of it, and make sure that one's not growing faster than the other. Because if your earned income is growing too fast, and your wealth is not growing at the same speed, you need to make sure that you're allocating that earned income to grow your wealth, that way eventually you can get out of the rat race.

Ash Patel: Yeah. Again, you're driving that point; it's so important what you said, to discern... Monthly cash flow can go away. Net Worth - it's a lot harder for that to disappear. So I'm glad you pushed that issue. Do you raise capital from investors?

Tim Herriage: I do not. I invest in deals, I have raised capital, but we are a family office, so capital is not an issue.

Ash Patel: And what do you celebrate? Look, people that are very driven, like yourself - it's always focusing on "This has gotta get done. This didn't work out right." And you mentioned taking the time to celebrate your successes. How do you do that, and how do you recommend other people that are coming up take a step back and be like, "Damn, look what you've done"? Because most of us are not wired that way.

Tim Herriage: This is something else I'm passionate about. My wife has a great story; she's actually been flipping houses longer than I have. That's how we met, she sold me a house.

Ash Patel: Why aren't we interviewing her instead of you?

Tim Herriage: She's not going to be on camera. She used to buy a purse every time she made over - I think it was $50,000 on a house. Like, it was one of those things. It was always just cool to watch her go do it. And I celebrate my team's wins. Actually, today we have a monthly goal awards call at RCN Capital, where we'll name the spark plug of the month. It'll be one of our loan processors. And the closer of the month. We do these different things that just brings attention to people's successes. Me personally, I operate on three-year horizons, typically. So I like to measure and track and just make sure that I'm on pace to hit those two and three-year goals.

Ash Patel: Tim, I think you failed to answer a question that I asked earlier on... How lucrative is this business? And if somebody wants to get involved in it, and start a lending company, what's your advice to them?

Tim Herriage: Be a broker first. We have a great broker program; anyone out there can sign up, and they can even go through -- we have 80 hours of training on being a broker for private money lenders. But be a broker first, learn the process, respect the credit process. A lot of people get angry that a deal can't be done, and what I've found is typically that's a deal that no one should do... And you're probably helping that customer out by turning them down, instead of finding some creative way to put them in a bad spot.

Look, lending can be very lucrative. It's a bit of a challenge right now. Margins are really compressed. Interest rate [unintelligible 00:27:24.22] Who knows? In a couple of weeks the Fed may drop rates, or raise rates, or double rates... We just don't know. In a rising rate environment like 2022, it was very difficult. But overall, long-term wise, making money with money is always going to be lucrative.

Ash Patel: Can you share the broker program that you have? So people can be brokers for RCN Capital... How does that work?

Tim Herriage: Almost two thirds of our business is done by brokers, referral partners, and correspondent lenders. We have a loan origination system we own called the Bridge Loan Network, and we bring these people in, they go through a class on a training platform, and they can sign up to be a broker. And then say they go to a meet up, and they meet -- we'll call him Billy the Borrower. And Billy the Borrower has a fix and flip or a rental property they're looking for financing on; you can log into our system, [unintelligible 00:28:22.25] the loan out, and if Billy the Borrower agrees to terms, then we send you a document list of everything you need to collect, and everything's run in our system. And you get to pick how much you make. And we tell brokers all the time, "Just be careful, because if you're trying to make four points, and another broker is trying to make two, you're probably going to cost yourself a deal."

Ash Patel: So you have an algorithm that does the approval process? Or is there humans on the backend that approve it?

Tim Herriage: Both. We have an online pricing engine where brokers and correspondent lenders, our white label partners can quote out the loans themselves. But every broker gets a dedicated account rep. And that dedicated account rep is there to keep the transaction moving forward, and make sure that everybody is doing the right thing, and expectations are set and met.

Ash Patel: Interesting. And with that, how important is the narrative? I get the importance of the balance sheet, but if I have a one-page narrative saying, "This is what I've done, this is my goals. Here's why I'm awesome, and this is why I want you to lend to me." Does that weigh into the decision at all?

Tim Herriage: Yeah. We have a credit committee still, specifically on different loan sizes... Look, the loan officer's summary, the narrative is very important. Specifically, if you have a little bit of a past, or -- look, we don't only want to loan to perfect people. We want to make credit available to everyone that can repay the loan. So if you have something in your past, maybe criminal record can be a deal, but maybe you wrote a hot check when you were 20. And now you're 30, and you haven't written a hot check in 10 years - disclose it up front, and explain it. "I was 20, I had just gotten out of the Marine Corps", whatever. "I was broke, got laid off, bounced the check." I mean, it's not a big deal, unless we feel like you're trying to hide it. If we feel like you're trying to hide it, then the radar goes up. "What else is he hiding?" So letters of explanation on anything in your past that you think may come up is always a good policy.

Ash Patel: Do lenders and do you do criminal background checks as well?

Tim Herriage: Yes.

Ash Patel: So if you have anything, disclose that as well, and have an explanation.

Tim Herriage: Yeah, felonies are a big deal. Minor misdemeanors aren't that big of a deal. Since these are asset-based loans, it's not your personal income that's going to qualify for the loan. We just want to make sure that we have a stand-up person that's going to honor their agreements.

Ash Patel: You just hit another nail on the head... There's so many real estate people that don't have an income. So you would be ideal for them, because I see these on Facebook posts all the time - how do you guys get lending for an asset like this when you're full-time in real estate? So because you're asset-based, you can overlook the fact that they're real estate investors, and not W-2 employees.

Tim Herriage: Yeah, absolutely. So we only loan to businesses. So you're going to have to take the loan in an LLC, or a corporation, or a legally registered business in good standing. And it's a business-purpose loan. So since it's a business purpose loan, we are looking at the business as the way to repay it. So we want to look at "Do you have money in your business bank account? Is this a new business? Is it an old business?" So we're not going to look at your personal tax returns, because that's not going to tell us anything about the business. We don't even look at the business tax returns; we just make sure that you file. That's the important thing.

Ash Patel: Tim, what's the hardest lesson you've learned in this career, in this business, whether it's about money, partners, deals? Just a real tough lesson that you want to share, that other people can learn from?

Tim Herriage: Ego. I think this business attracts the mavericks, the type A's, and oftentimes, we get into a deal or a dispute or a situation that creates so much friction and negativity in our daily life that the smart thing to do is to stop; sell the house, break up the partnership... And I still struggle with this. I'm going to court with an HOA on Friday. I still fight some fights I shouldn't fight. So I think it's being okay to lose a little bit, so that you can actually be at peace would probably be the thing that I would share the most.

Ash Patel: And what is your best real estate investing advice ever?

Tim Herriage: One more. No matter where you are, no matter what you think, do one more. And I've been saying this since before I read [unintelligible 00:33:00.03] just put some context around it. If you're planning on keeping one property this year, keep two. If you're planning on keeping zero, keep one. If you want to keep 100, keep 101. After 23 years in this business, if I had just kept one more home per year, it would be about another $10 million of net worth. So wherever you're at, challenge yourself to do one more; not one more door. I don't believe in doors. But yeah, I mean, my best advice is start keeping assets now, and keep more than you think is possible, and let time do its thing.

Ash Patel: And that doesn't mean one more beer when it's time to go home either.

Tim Herriage: One less of that.

Ash Patel: Awesome. Tim, are you ready for the Best Ever lightning round?

Tim Herriage: I am.

Ash Patel: Alright, Tim, what's the Best Ever book you recently read?

Tim Herriage: Oh my goodness, I recently re-read "Start with Why" by Simon Sinek. It had been years since I've read it. It meant so much to me now that I've progressed in my career where I am.

Ash Patel: Tim, what's the Best Ever way you like to give back?

Tim Herriage: Youth football and sports coaching. One of the greatest joys of my life is the young men that I've coached. I actually have three young men that I coached when they were kids, that will be in the NFL draft this month.

Ash Patel: Wow. Good for you. And Tim, how can the Best Ever listeners reach out to you?

Tim Herriage: @Timherriage on all socials, or

Ash Patel: Spell your last name for us, if you would.

Tim Herriage: Herriage. I'm the only one out there.

Ash Patel: Tim, thank you for your time today, giving us the ins and outs of some of these short-term lending lessons that you've learned, lessons that we can learn on how to best acquire short-term capital. So thank you again for your time today.

Tim Herriage: Ash, thanks for having me, bud.

Ash Patel: I'm sorry, most importantly, thank you for your service as a Marine.

Tim Herriage: Thank you.

Ash Patel: Best Ever listeners, thank you so much for joining us. If you enjoy this podcast, please leave us a five star review. Share this episode with someone you think and benefit from it. Also, follow, subscribe, and have a Best Ever day.

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