This episode is brought to you by Presario Ventures, a private equity real estate firm based in the booming Austin, Texas, market. To learn how to invest in the future of Texas with Presario Ventures, visit info.presarioventures.com/bestever.
Ash Patel sits down with seasoned real estate professional, Darin Davis, to unravel the intricate tapestry of Austin's commercial real estate scene. As the winds of change sweep across Austin, transforming it from a college town to a dynamic global business hub, Darin provides a deep dive into what investors need to know, highlighting the importance of passive income, strategies for navigating rising interest rates, and the power of focusing on foundational wealth.
Key Takeaways:
- Austin's Evolution:
- Austin's transformation from a laid-back college town to an international business magnet, housing giants like Samsung, Tesla, and Oracle.
- Despite the rapid influx of businesses and people, Austin continually reinvents itself, preserving its unique charm while embracing modern advancements.
- Strategies for the Current Market:
- The shift from ground-up development to focusing on bridge lending due to market changes.
- The imminent rise of discounted markets in Austin, positioning it as a prime location for savvy commercial real estate investors.
- The Power of Passive Income:
- Darin's poignant personal journey emphasizes the indispensable role of passive income and foundational wealth in life's unpredictabilities.
- The critical distinction between transactional money-making and foundational wealth-building.
Darin Davis | Real Estate Background
- Principal and Co-Founder, Presario Ventures
- Portfolio:
- Multifamily
- Self-storage
- Retail
- NNN
- Based in: Austin, TX
- Say hi to him at:
- Best Ever Book: Bill O'Reilly's Killing Series
- Greatest Lesson: Don’t be afraid to go through an economic downturn. It will give you immeasurable experience to take with you moving forward.
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Transcript
Ash Patel:
Best Ever listeners. Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I'm your host Ash Patel. Today's episode is brought to you by Presario Ventures, a private equity real estate firm based in the booming Austin, Texas market to learn how you can invest in the future of Texas with Presario Ventures. Please visit info.PresarioVentures.com forward slash best ever or click on the show notes below. I'm with today's guest, Darin Davis. Darin is a returning guest on the Best Ever Podcast. He is joining us from Austin, Texas. He is the principal and co-founder of Presario Ventures. They focus on investing in commercial real estate assets on behalf of their investors. Darin's portfolio consists of multifamily, self-storage, retail, and triple net. Darin, thank you for joining us and how are you today?
Darin Davis:
I'm great, Ash. Thanks for having me.
Ash Patel:
It's our pleasure. Darin, you wanted to deep dive on the Austin market. So let's get into it. And look, I'm going to just start the podcast off with pushing back. You guys have had such a run in Austin. And now the headlines are all those hot markets are starting to slow. Phoenix, Southern Florida. Is the party over or what?
Darin Davis:
It has been quite a ride and it's kind of one of those unicorns. I said it before, but if you look at the fundamentals on Austin, if you look at job growth, population growth, wages, we're still leading the nation. Now, have we all dropped five, 10, 15%? Absolutely. We were on the top of the mountain and I think we have a lot of investors, international investors. And when they hear that we're in Austin, Texas, it automatically check that box, give it a plus and let's call those guys and understand what's going on there. But, you know, if you look at the environment that we have, the business of climate that we have, the affordability component that we have, we have the university, the state government. I think we're very fortunate. In fact, I like to tell this story of not more than about a year ago, I was up in Dallas at a conference, primarily for brokers and investors, but the speaker. was saying, you don't understand you guys, how lucky you are here in Texas. And he goes, I can't give this presentation in Chicago, in San Francisco. He goes, it's really hard for me to put a big, nice bow on it. But for you guys, even in the bad times, you're in the best of the worst times. And I look at it and I think we're very fortunate here in Texas and here in Austin.
Ash Patel:
What would drive the numbers down in Austin? I know all the Fortune 500s that have come in. Everybody wants to live in Austin. All the California people relocated down there. What risks do you see for that market?
Darin Davis:
I think the risk that we see here would be driven globally. I do not think we have a clear and present danger right in front of us like an industry that is being sunsetted. We are such a diversified economy. We're a global economy. We have the ports out of Houston. We have the oil fields in West Texas. We have the technology here in Austin. And I think DFW has the Dallas Cowboys, let's just say. So we have such a diversified state and economics. I really think it would be more on a global or national and it would impact everybody. And if I had to lay my chips on the table, knowing that everybody's being impacted, I would place my money here in Texas as a lot of companies have.
Ash Patel:
I know Houston is quite a distance away from Austin. Does Austin benefit at all? We're in Q4 of 2023, oil is approaching a hundred dollars a barrel. And there's a sweet spot for Houston when oil prices are high. Does Austin benefit in any way from that?
Darin Davis:
The whole state does. We sure do. Our economy has been driven by Texas tea, black gold, until 20, 25 years ago. That was probably our number one economic driver. We've diversified, but the Port of Houston is just absolutely massive. The chemical companies, the oil refineries. It is globally, I'm not sure where it sits on the pecking order, but if it's not in the top three ports in the world, I would be surprised. And employment there. The average wage of guys that are working more of what we consider a factory job and not an executive level or mid-management, it's north of $150,000 a year. So wages are really good and cost of living is very good there too.
Ash Patel:
Have you taken any chips off the table?
Darin Davis:
Ah, that's a really good question. Yes, we have. We are probably more inclined to pull back quicker than most. And I think that comes from our experience. My partner and I, 20 plus years in the business, we've seen three downturns, this being our fourth. We've built Kenny Rogers, no one to hold him, no one to fold him. And I think over the past year and a half, we've been a fold. using my card playing metaphor, but we're teeing up right now to be able to take advantage of what I think some discounting is going to be. And we haven't seen a discount in Austin in a decade. People understand cap rates. I was shocked when we sold a deal at a two seven five cap rate. We had another deal at three one and got the deal at three six. So we took some money off the table. We stood down. But we're about to get back in the market because we're going to start seeing some discounts from a lot of class A operators or builders and developers.
Ash Patel:
The 275 cap rate, would you happen to know what interest rate their loan was at or was it a floating rate?
Darin Davis:
No, it was fixed, but I think they were kind of in the high twos, low threes because actually we knew the buyer. Not personally, but we knew them through the industry. And that asset was picked up probably five years ago. I know they weren't more than 315, 325 on that debt.
Ash Patel:
Okay, so much different than if somebody had just purchased this within the last year or two.
Darin Davis:
That interest rate allowed them to purchase it at that price.
Ash Patel:
Okay. Now, look, real estate people are notorious for having rose colored glasses on. So many of them think the arrow is going up into the right forever. What are you seeing with opportunities from people that continue to bank on the Austin market? didn't see the looming risks of interest rates on the horizon.
Darin Davis:
Well, I'll go back two or three years. Even five years ago, there was a lot of people getting into the, let's just call it the syndication business, acquisition of multifamily, investing in multifamily. A lot of those businesses have not fallen on good times in the last year or so. And they've not understanding the importance of debt and how debt drives a deal. because if your debt's not set up correctly and you don't have multiple exit plans within your business plan, you could face some uncertainty. I'll track back to 2007 and eight here nationally. Here in Texas, there were guys that literally had three and five year floating debt that lost everything. And I'm not talking one deal and $5 million. I'm talking every deal and hundreds of millions of dollars. So it was driven by everybody that had long-term debt. meaning five plus years, really seven, maybe even 10. But anybody that had floating in that three year range to five year range floating, it was a nightmare for them. We experienced that, and fortunately for us, we had some fixed long-term debt on our first multifamily that we did, which turned out to be our absolutely best multifamily we ever did.
Ash Patel:
More devil's advocate for you, Austin's Overbuilt. What are your thoughts?
Darin Davis:
Well, okay, I've got a very fine answer for that. Austin has experienced a tremendous amount of construction. And if you look at the Austin Metro, we have 23 sub markets. In those sub markets, I would say two thirds of them have experienced a lot of supply coming online. That is true. That supply is gonna take two or three years to actually run through the process. There is about a third of our market that is still under supplied. So when somebody says Austin MSA is oversupplied, overall, yeah, but if you take the two thirds that are, then I would say you need to be very suspect in that area. And if you take the one third that's not, you're going to do really well because there is a demand need where the supply did not match with the demand. So overall, yes, some markets, no.
Ash Patel:
And what is that two thirds and one third? Is that a geographic differentiator?
Darin Davis:
Yeah, it's really done by Northwest Austin, Northeast Austin, West Austin, Southwest Austin, the tech ridge, the domain, the university downtown. So we've got all of these sectors that we have inside of our Austin MSA, which includes the suburbs. Probably at 35 mile radius around Austin, which includes all the companies like Samsung, Tesla, Oracle, all within that 35 mile range.
Ash Patel:
A question that I asked somebody that was from Austin about a week ago at a conference was, Austin was a different world. It was a cool vibe and the music scene was great. With all the influx of people, is it losing its charm?
Darin Davis:
We keep reinventing ourselves like I've never seen. I started coming here in the seventies and I mean, it was absolutely hippieville, Willie Nelson, give me a doobie. It was all of that. the university, the downtown area, but Austin just keeps pulling in so much personality, so many world travelers. It's actually been phenomenal how this city has adapted from what used to be a small college town with the state capital to this dynamic, and I mean dynamic global icon of a business environment. There are still those pockets where you can get old school. and they're very popular. We have things like the big ACL music festival. We have the ACL live, which people can watch on PBS. It's been going on for 40 years. We have the Grand Prix now. We have the University of Texas. It just keeps going on and on and on. Where Austin used to be one small college hippie town, it's got pockets of diverse, well-skilled, highly educated employees and people. I even live where I live. I live out on an area called Lake Travis. Well, in the seventies and eighties, that was ranch land. You wouldn't drive out there unless you had to. Now there's multimillion dollar mansions all over the place and the infrastructure is built out. So it's got its pockets. It's still got a great cool vibe.
Ash Patel:
The secret's been out on Austin for years. Why don't you go somewhere where there's a less competition?
Darin Davis:
Huh? Well, we have not. been able to keep up with the demand. And I've always said, when you've got a good thing that's supported by data, and we look at the demographers, we look at where money's going, migration is going. We have not needed to go to areas that are not proven growth areas. I don't want to go somewhere where there's less demand thinking, okay, is there going to be even less demand next year and less demand the next year? That's really hard to sell to an investor when you can't prove that Businesses are moving to Austin. Jobs are relocated to Austin. Companies are relocating here. The university's growing. Taxes are coming down. I think that we're just very fortunate. I mean, there's no doubt about it. We've been very lucky. But I'd rather be lucky than smart. You've heard it. And we haven't had a reason to leave here and I just don't foresee it's gonna happen. In fact, I remember that first apartment complex that my partner and I were building. We were going through the process of entitlement and I went to go meet with the mayor. And after we met, I'm walking out of his office and above his door, he had a sign up there and all it said was jobs, jobs. That's it. And I said, if that's his number one goal is creating jobs, which drives the economy and drives migration and demand. And I've always thought about that. And I've always said, if I can find an area and I just happen to be living in it. And I was thinking about relocating to Dallas because Dallas is moving too. And that's where I'm virtually from. But if you look at what we've done over the last 20, 30 years, it's jobs driven. And if you follow the jobs, people will be there and then everything else just grows around that.
Ash Patel:
Darin, in our last interview, you discussed the fact that you had invested in strip centers as well. I know you love multifamily. You're a big fan. Why not underwrite or look at some retail or industrial buildings as well?
Darin Davis:
I'm about focus right now. And if I've got a good thing and I can make that good thing better, and I've always had this philosophy of good, better, best, if it's good and I can make it better. And if I continue to make it the best thing I can, then I'm going down the right path. I can't be everything to everyone. If I try to step outside my lane and if I don't keep my focus on what we do and what we do best, I don't think I'd be the best value to our investors. So personally, I have. Triple net properties, personally, I have storage, personally, I have retail, personally, I've got other things, but I'm an investor too. So I'm an LP and an owner and a dozen or more properties. The same thing I'm telling you is the same thing I asked the guys I'm investing with, and I think they hate it when I call because I don't stop asking questions. I understand how the questions I have to answer for my guys, but I just like the fact that we focus. I love the fact that we have a supply issue. I don't love it for us. be able to provide that housing and the government is going to be very favorable to you with your debt and actually helping you get more housing on the ground.
Ash Patel:
I like that answer. Darin, you mostly focus on Class A turnkey properties. What else fits in your wheelhouse? What do you shoot for? Is it properties that are under a certain age? Is it just new construction?
Darin Davis:
We do just Class A. Really, if you talk about age, it's probably less than five years. The development side of it, it's always been ground up construction. Now, the winds have changed. It no longer makes sense for us to do ground up development because we've got negative leverage. I used to get 70%, 75% on a loan paying four and a half, 5%. Well, now I'm getting 50% paying six, six and a half, and I've got to pay the other 50%, eight pref or a 10 pref, which is all our equity. So the development model is not working today. But what is working for us is that we understand that space really well. So we're very aware that there are trillions of dollars of notes coming due in the next three years, and there are going to be a lot of developers, general contractors, and other groups that are going to need to refinance that construction debt or any debt that's coming due in the next few years. And taking that debt from three and a half percent to seven or A floating rate on construction where they started off at three and a half and now they're paying eight. They need to get out of that. You look at other markets, you might talk about distressed assets and you hear that a lot, get ready, get ready. Austin, it's not a distressed market, but it's going to be a discounted market. And it's going to be 10, 15, 20% of what we were paying just two years ago, three years ago. So you get a good asset like that, a class A asset in a market like this. You have a business plan to hold it for. five plus years, you're going to do real well.
Ash Patel:
Is there a minimum number of units that you typically will build?
Darin Davis:
That's a real good question. The rule of thumb used to be 220 units. Over the years, we've realized that the demand we could absorb 280, 300, 330. So most of our projects today will be more in the 300 unit range just because of economies of scale and the demand is there for them. Another certain product type, I'll give you an example. We don't really play in this space, but as active adult, the 55 plus, those projects seem to be much smaller. So you'll see people that'll work on those in the 80 to 120 range. But when you start looking at the market rate or any affordable, getting into that 300 range is probably more of our sweet spot today.
Ash Patel:
You're looking to become a bridge lender to help people that have assets that are potentially going underwater. Do you raise the capital ahead of time in a fund and let it sit, or do you raise deal by deal basis?
Darin Davis:
It's a good question. Our model by default has been, we're syndicators. We have not done a fund on our common equity. So the first few, these bridge loans and preferred equity bridge money we're going to put in there are going to be through a syndication, however, we run the numbers and looked at the metrics and how this is going to roll out for the next few years. And I think it's highly probable by the end of Q1, we'll be doing a fund. Because all of these are real similar. The points in and the points out, origination fee and disposition fee, and the interest rates are all just about the same. So I'm sure we'll get a fund set up. I think it's really attractive for investors because it hedges some guaranteed contractual money that's more of a cashflow model for two, three, four years. versus common equity or LP equity. You don't have a cap on it, but also you're not at the very end of the distribution chain other than the sponsor.
Ash Patel:
Investor appetites have changed significantly since rates started going up. What are you doing differently today to raise capital?
Darin Davis:
That's a really good question. For us, and I'm going to go back to just, we're a little fortunate. If you look at the basic economics of our market and the jobs that we have and the population growth, we're sharing the story of foundational wealth. And I say this to a lot of people all the time. I said, making money is transactional building wealth is foundational. And right now this is a foundation building environment where you're going to get a high quality asset in a great market that has foreseeable future of significant growth, 10, 15, 20 years. It may not feel like the best deal you've ever done in the first couple of years. Your cashflow may be three, four, five, 6%. and not that unicorn number we used to get 10, 11, 12, 13. I think those days are way behind us, but you're gonna get a great asset. And if you look at what's happening in Austin right now, we've had more than a 50% correction in construction starts. So our supplies is flattening out big time. And I think two or three years from now, when all of that supply that's coming online today and nothing's really being built to keep up with the demand going forward, I think three or four years from now, you're gonna see significant. growth and we'll see some better numbers and some better times.
Ash Patel:
Are you buying more time on your newer money in telling them you're holding for five, seven, 10 years or longer? Or is it still the three to five year hold?
Darin Davis:
No, it's not three. I can tell you that right now. We're looking at five and seven years, probably no more than 10. But we articulate that in the business plan for that reason that we have that five to 10 year money. But we are also offering that preferred equity, which is in that two to four year range. You're going to get a stated rate of return. You're in and you're out. It's contractually in that with it's kind of a loan, but it is not the upside of the equity, but you're also getting an assurance of the amount of money you're going to make and it's a no number. So that money's two to four years and that common equity is more in that five to seven year range.
Ash Patel:
Can you explain that to me? So what happens in two to four years when I invest $100,000 with you?
Darin Davis:
So what the model looks like, try to be really brief on this, but the bridge money sits right behind the bank loan construction loan and after the bank debt is paid, it's paid next. Now the way we've contracted that is that you'll say, okay, it's going to be a percent paid per quarter, sometimes per month, and that developer has to have enough interest reserves because they're not generating cash, they're building, so they have to have enough. proven interest reserves to actually make those payments. You time it with their construction loan. So if they've got a three-year construction loan, they may have a three-year bridge loan, knowing that by the time they get to that three years, they have to go into a permanent loan. Well, when they go into that permanent loan, they have to pay you out. So you're making money through that three-year period, monthly, quarterly, sometimes it's accrued, but. Most of the time, half of it is getting paid and half of it's being accrued, but that money will get paid at that time of refi. And that money sits above all the common equity, which is next. And then the sponsor, which is very last. So it's a really safe position. It's short-term and it's a known return.
Ash Patel:
How does the conversation go with a distressed asset, somebody that let's say is underwater. We come to Bursario and we say, look, I need you to bail us out. What kind of terms? What can we expect?
Darin Davis:
Well, we're not the kind of vulture group that you may hear about on TV or some movie or watching some big short or suits or something like that. It's nothing like that. Our position on this is we're doing it right now with a friend of mine. They've got a gap in their construction loan due to a hangover from COVID. And they're at the very end of their project and we're coming in and we're going to fill that gap. for two and a half years. And it's enough time for him to complete his construction, enough time for him to lease up the project, enough time for him to stabilize the project and then go out and get permanent debt, which he can pay us. Now, are we cheap? Today's market, you would think, no, I would never pay that. But when somebody's looking at, Hey, I need $7 million tomorrow. I need $10 million. next month and they know the upside if they can do this will be significant. They would rather pay for that surety of getting to the end of the goal line than waiting till the very end when everybody knows they're in trouble and then that's when the vultures come out. So we're not one of those guys. We're trying to get in the front end of this and make it a win-win for everybody.
Ash Patel:
Do you get part of the upside on the property as well or is it just fixed interest on your debt?
Darin Davis:
That's a good question. No, we don't. It gets offered to us all the time and sometimes you can contract for a point or two. And that's not uncommon, but we try to keep it really simple because if we're in a fund model, which we're working towards, we're going to have some guardrails and parameters and we got to keep everything really just straightforward and simple. So we have our term sheet. It's well documented, well stated, and we work off of that. But every now and then it gets offered, but we haven't done that.
Ash Patel:
Are you not leaving money on the table? Why not take five percent equity on a deal on the back end?
Darin Davis:
You know what? We thought about that. But here's the thing. This model, you're going into an equity position where you're taking that equity. You're almost complete the same model that you have over your common equity. We're trying to give our investors a finite number. Now, if I could get that finite number that we're doing with everybody else and somebody wants to throw something on the top because the market demands it, we haven't gotten there yet. Now we did see that back in 2009, 2010. That was very common. There were people willing to walk away. They're willing to quit from a lot of their promote to actually fill that gap. But we're just not there yet. And it could get there. I just don't see it getting there this year. It could happen. We'll see how competitive the market gets or how bruised it gets. Punched in the nose right now. The daggers haven't quite come out, but time will tell.
Ash Patel:
Do you work with lenders as well, or is it just syndicators?
Darin Davis:
We do work with lenders. We work with the big brokerage groups that we all have probably worked with. You've got your JLL, Walker Dunlop, and there's six or seven, but they're brokerage groups, Northmark. We work with those guys and they broker deals through Fannie and Freddie and some of the Lifeco's. We don't really work with the regional banks. They're not competitive for the most part. When you're looking at some of the government money or the Lifeco's, typically have better terms for the type of products and the size that we're doing. It's not uncommon for us to do a $50 million project or a $90 million project. And that's not just the wheelhouse of a lot of the regional lenders.
Ash Patel:
Darin, what is your best investing advice ever?
Darin Davis:
Well, gosh, I've got a lot of them, but I think if I had to really share a personal story, because it probably changed my life. And I don't say that lightly. I pivoted out of corporate America. I was in San Francisco at the time and you know, I was in the dot com. world and man, was it fun in the 98, 99, then boom, what an experience that was. But that, a few other things in my family going on with just people getting older and passing away. I had this epiphany and I said, I've got to do something different. And I didn't really even know what it was. But then I was exposed to a radio broadcast about real estate investing and passive income and blah, blah. And I was just fascinated by the concept. So. I immediately just dove in. And back then we didn't have easy ways to understand how to do a lot of things. A lot of it was self-taught. This is still with cassette tapes. That tells you anything. Hell, I felt like it was eight tracks, but it was cassette tapes. But I started believing in the concept of building wealth and passive income and, and not really knowing what the outcome would be, but what ended up happening after me working on that model. After. Gosh, about nine or 10 years. I started building up passive income and I was loving this, gotten into multifamily, was loving that, so I started putting the focus on multifamily, focus on passive income, focus on building wealth, focus on control, being my own boss, and out of nowhere, I mean nowhere, my wife gets diagnosed with cancer. And it's stage four. This is a woman that was organic, young. had no history of cancer. But what it ended up doing for her and me and my kids is I was able to step out of the day-to-day operations and able to take care of her and take care of my young children and barely missed a beat. And if I had not made that switch back in 2001-ish, I don't know what would have happened through all her treatments and everything, we saw people that were not as fortunate as us didn't have that foundational wealth starting to build and that passive income coming in. And it allowed me to be with my kids. It allowed me to still raise my kids. She passed away. And it was just one of those things I look back and I literally thank anybody and everybody that was a part of that. And my partner, my team, family, friends, everything. It's one of those where you can be a hero to your family in a way that if that never happens to you, you're still a hero if you've done it. But I can tell you right now, it's something that I'm very, very to just understanding health and all that. Statistically, 10% of people who will hear this broadcast are going through that life event. And I can't say enough to them about, if you haven't started this, start it now. And I can tell you by the time you're 60, 50% of the people have gone through some life of that. Some will be more than others, but I can tell you that actually having that plan, but actually doing that literally gave my family the opportunity to continue to grow, maintain. My kids enjoyed their mom, my wife enjoyed the kids. They got us through some difficult times. So for all of your listeners out there, take action. And it was powerful, absolutely powerful at the outcome. And it allowed us to continue a fairly normal life, all things considered. What I can tell you, and there's so many different ways to create foundational wealth and there's so many different ways to create passive income. There's ways I don't even know about the message I want to really share with people and people call it side hustle. They call it a second job, but really understand what it means to create for income streams, passive income, something that doesn't need you there all the time. And there's so many different industries. I'm an investor in another dozen plus deals with other people because they create passive income that I can't do. And if real estate takes a dip, I know that I've got some oil and gas over here. And I know I've got some businesses over here, but my whole point is there's so many people that'll read a book and have analysis paralysis and just won't take that first step because they're a little scared. It's a scary first step. I get it. I'm more of a doer than a thinker. And that's kind of hurt me a few times. I jump a lot of times, but I look back and as long as I realized that I learned a lesson and I pushed forward somehow, some way I will it's in my DNA to do that. But I would just tell everybody, I just happen to do real estate. There's other things out there. There's other operators out there. And there's a lot of good ones. It can be very powerful. And if you never have to have it. Great. Good for you. But if you. don't have it and you need it, that's when you're going to feel a lot of pain.
Ash Patel:
Yeah, I think that's very important. The metrics today, savings rates in the U S are relatively at an all time low. We just surpassed $1 trillion in credit card debt. We have a lot of retirees that can't retire. So for the best ever listeners that are hearing this, it's important to take action. It's not tomorrow. It's not next week. It's not when. The economy recovers and is booming again. You got to take action every day. You got to do something. And in terms of failure, identify your backstop. If you're young and you can afford to have some failures, by all means do it. It's incredible what you just said. So thank you for sharing that.
Darin Davis:
Oh yeah. It's a very deep relationship that I have with helping people to get. past their fears and help them get into that next step of their life where they're actually creating some generational wealth or passive income because it matters.
Ash Patel:
Darin, you've been in this industry for over 20 years. Where do you see this multifamily industry going in the future?
Darin Davis:
That's a really good question because we all understand the speed of technology and how fast things are changing. One of the things that we've all seen since the pandemic is work from home and cohort. It's been real interesting to see that for us. And you hear in businesses today saying, Hey, we're bringing them back in. The numbers say otherwise. There may be some flexibility about coming back to the office, but the numbers are still almost doing the hockey stick for remote workers just because of flexibility and mobility and the way people work today. But the thing I think we may see more of is this co-living. We're even starting to see country clubs in the hotels where You have a membership based program where you can stay in Dallas one month, New York one month, San Francisco one month, Miami another, because you're part of a program that allows you to actually go do that and you're not tracking all of your stuff across the country. These are furnished apartments like Airbnb is coming into apartments, but I think co-living is something that is around the corner. And I think the work from home or the flex working is here to stay. And I think apartment buildings are going to have to adjust to more of a community. More so than they are today. They're going to have to use better spacing. You're going to have to have more of a lifestyle in them and bringing people together versus having people just stay in their rooms and work in their apartments. There's going to be a big change in some of the amenities. I think they're going to start happening.
Ash Patel:
Got it. Darin, how can the best ever listeners reach out to you?
Darin Davis:
Pretty simply, presarioadventures.com. And the other way to reach out is to get to info.presarioadventures.com forward slash best ever. And I think this is just really important. I was trying to think what's the one hot topic today. And I've got about four or five hot topics, but the questions I've been getting the most is how do you vet the right sponsor? And because there's been a lot of change in the industry over the last couple of years. I put together what I think is a top 10 for due diligence. And I want to make sure all your guys have that. So if you go to the info.persarioadventures.com forward slash best ever, you can download that document about 25 pages, easy to read. I've got my top three. Obviously debt is one of them because that's such an important topic today. How do you get the debt? How do you manage the debt? What kind of debt? a little bit about preferred equity in the air that we talked about. So it's a really good overview of the things you should be considering on any investment you make.
Ash Patel:
Darin, on that note, thank you for your time again. What a great talk. Thanks for being a return guest on our podcast. Thanks for having me, Ash. I appreciate it. Best ever listeners, thank you for joining us. If you enjoy this podcast, please leave us a five star review, share this episode with someone you think can benefit from it. Also follow, subscribe and have a best ever day.
