February 20, 2023

JF3091: Debunking Mobile Home Park Investing Myths ft. Daniel Weisfield



Daniel Weisfield is a third-generation mobile home park investor and the co-founder of Three Pillar Communities, which is now a Top 30 mobile home park owner in the U.S. with roughly a $500 million portfolio made up of 65 communities in 11 states.

In this episode, Daniel discusses the changing stigma of manufactured homes, the myth that a mobile home is a depreciating asset, and the challenges of developing mobile home parks.

Take a look at Daniel's latest community, Cameron Crossing in Bozeman, Montana.

Daniel Weisfield | Real Estate Background


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Ash Patel: Hello, Best Ever listeners. Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I'm Ash Patel, and I'm with today's guest, Daniel Weisfield. Daniel is joining us from Tel Aviv, Israel. He is a repeat guest and he's the co-founder of Three Pillar Communities, based in Los Altos, California, which revitalizes affordable communities while generating compelling returns. Daniel's portfolio consists of being a GP on 29 properties. Daniel, thank you so much for joining us today, and how are you?

Daniel Weisfield: Really good. Thanks for having me back.

Ash Patel: And you are, again, calling from Tel Aviv, Israel. And that is home for you. Right?

Daniel Weisfield: Temporarily. The Bay Area is home. It's where I grew up, was born and raised. But I moved my family to Israel about a year and a half ago. I was an adventurer during COVID; we were really enjoying it, living on the beach, kind of a short term thing, and then we'll move back to the States, probably in June.

Ash Patel: Alright, COVID is over, brother. Time to get back to --

Daniel Weisfield: Right, exactly. Time to move on, right?

Ash Patel: Awesome. Daniel, before we get started, can you give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and what you're focused on now?

Daniel Weisfield: Sure. So I am a third generation mobile home park investor. My family immigrated to the US with nothing, and my grandfather used to buy wrecked cars at a junkyard, and he sold those cars, and he saved up money from fixing wrecked cars, and he bought a mobile home park, roughly 40 years ago. So I grew up around that business, very much that kind of classic American dream story. I ended up starting my own mobile home park investment company called Three Pillar Communities six years ago. We've been incredibly fortunate, we've grown to become a top 30 owner of mobile home parks in the US. We have a roughly half a billion dollar portfolio comprising around 65 communities in 11 states. We're vertically integrated, we have around 110 employees, and we are doing everything there is to do in manufactured housing; I love the space, it's such an important source of financially attainable housing for normal people in America... We buy and revitalize communities, we're also developing new communities on raw land, we're manufactured home dealers, and I haven't talked about any of those things.

Ash Patel: And Best Ever listeners, Daniel is a repeat guest. If you google "Joe Fairless and Daniel Weisfield", his first episode will show up. And he blew us away by debunking a myth last time, that they're not building any new mobile home parks. And again, I was blown away, because I know a lot of people in this space, and one of their pitches to investors, Daniel, is that there's a limited supply, they're not building any new mobile home parks... And I think that's the prevalent understanding for most people out there. You debunked it, and you're actually building new mobile home parks. Can we dive into that, please?

Daniel Weisfield: Yes. So let's first talk about the myth. A lot of people have profited from this myth, that no new mobile home parks can be built. And I think, as you said, it's part of the pitch. People hype it up. They say "You want to buy mobile home parks because there is such a competitive moat. It's impossible to build new product, therefore the things will only go up in value." And the reality is, it has been extremely hard to develop new parks over the last, let's say, 30 years... And that's largely because of NIMBYism and stigma. This is the most stigmatized form of housing that exists in the United States. So for that reason, a lot of communities have not wanted to approve new mobile home parks because of this stereotype about trailer parks. "We don't want that in our backyard." But that's starting to change, for a few reasons. Number one, the quality of the product has gotten way, way better. So new manufactured homes look gorgeous. They've got nice wood siding, a pitched roof, stainless steel appliances, granite countertops... These are really nice homes. And number two, communities are struggling with the housing affordability problem, and a lot of towns and cities and counties have realized that we are the best game in town for providing affordable housing ,and providing it quickly. So for that reason, we're starting to see a new wave of park development... And I'd like to say we're part of the tip of the spear. We're one of the early developers in this new wave of parks.

Ash Patel: Can you give us an example of mobile home parks that you got online recently? Or maybe that you're trying to work with a municipality currently... What challenges, how you got it done...

Daniel Weisfield: Absolutely. So let me start with a success story, and then I'll tell you a failure story. Does that work?

Ash Patel: Absolutely.

Daniel Weisfield: Right. Okay. So, for our early success story, I'll talk about Bozeman, Montana. We are developing a new 250-unit manufactured housing community in Bozeman called Cameron Crossing. And your listeners can check it out. Go to Cameron-crossing.com and you'll see there are awesome renderings of the community; we show our clubhouse, the dog park we're building, images of the new homes we're bringing in... This is really a Class A manufactured housing community.

Take whatever stereotype you have in your mind about a trailer park, throw it out the window. That is not what we're building. We have walking trails, dog parks, really nice homes, with site-built garages, concrete driveways... This looks like a subdivision. But if you were to buy a three-bedroom, two-bath home, and a conventional subdivision in Bozeman, where the homebuyer has to buy the land, that's gonna cost you anywhere from $500,000 to $900,000. Bozeman is a hot market; ton of people moved there during COVID. Incredible skiing, fly fishing, mountain biking, universities, coffee shop... It's a really cool place, so housing prices have gone through the roof.

We can tell that exact same home, really nice three-bedroom, two-bath home, with a garage and a nice driveway and a backyard and amenities, and we can sell that home or anywhere between 199k and 300k, where we keep the land, the resident owns the home, the home appreciates over time, and the resident pays us a lot rent payment every month. Does that make sense?

Ash Patel: It does, except for the home appreciates over time. Is that typical for mobile homes? Or atypical?

Daniel Weisfield: Yes, okay, here's another big myth that I'm glad you're touching on. Lots of people perpetuate this idea that a mobile home is a depreciating asset, just like a car, and the second you drive it off the lot it starts declining in value. And that is both true and not true. So I'll tell you when it's true. It's true -- if you take a mobile home, and you take it off the dealer's lot, and you go dump it in a cornfield in the middle of nowhere in Nebraska, or if you dump it in the desert in the middle of nowhere in New Mexico, it will depreciate over time; you find a 1970 [unintelligible 00:08:21.24] Of course, it has zero value. However, if we take that same 1970s single-wide mobile home and you put it in a manufactured housing community that's well managed, in a housing market that is supply-constrained... More people want to buy a home when there are homes available. And that home has inherent value because it's on a lot. It's a place you can actually move into and live in a desirable market.

So as long as those conditions are met - you're in a good market and you have a well managed community - mobile homes appreciate over time. And the best example of this is probably San Jose, California. You're in Silicon Valley, housing's expensive. If you want to go buy a 1962 single-wide trailer, a one-bedroom, one-bath in a mobile home park in San Jose, you're going to pay $100,000 to $200,000. And [unintelligible 00:09:15.03] other communities on the Oregon coast, on a beautiful park called Emerald Coast estates - new double-wide homes were sold in that park for about $100,000 when they were new 20 years ago, and now they sell for $200,000 to $300,000. So this becomes a real source of wealth creation for our residents.

Ash Patel: So then you're flipping the model around, and the playbook on mobile homes says "Buy the mobile home park, sell off all the homes, keep the lot rent..." If your properties are appreciating, you don't want to sell, do you?

Daniel Weisfield: Well, let me clarify. So let me take Bozeman as an example. We bought raw land from a farmer. The Dykstra family, they were growing alfalfa there for the past 100 years. We bought the raw land, we worked with the county, we got entitlements, we brought the engineer, the contractor, we're building out horizontal infrastructure right now, we're doing all the marketing and the branding... And then we also have a mobile home dealership where we're building homes in factories, we're gonna bring those homes in and install them, and then we set up a sales center, right there on site.

And we want to sell those homes to the end customer, for a few reasons. Number one, our residents want to own their own home. That's why this is more valuable to them than living in an apartment. If you're in an apartment, they're just a renter, right? If they live in our community, they own an appreciating asset. They can customize that home, they can paint it, they can do interior renovation, whatever they want. They have their own front yard and backyard, they don't share any walls with a neighbor... So they want to achieve that dream of homeownership, and we also want them to achieve that dream of homeownership. If they own their own home, it means we have a very stable, long-term resident, who's got skin in the game; they own a home in the community, they're going to maintain it with pride of ownership, and we'll have very low turnover. Our average tenancy is around 10 years. So we're happy for the resident to own the home. That's the model we like. If the home appreciates over time, we want that appreciation to go to the resident. We don't need to keep it.

Ash Patel: It's less overhead, less management.

Daniel Weisfield: Exactly.

Ash Patel: What are challenges that you've run into? because that's a huge win... But what have you failed to get permitted for a mobile home park?

Daniel Weisfield: So our biggest challenge so far has been in Donnelly, Idaho. Donnelly, Idaho is roughly two hours north of Boise, Idaho. Idaho was the fastest-growing state in the country in 2022 in terms of population growth. Lots of people moving from San Francisco and LA and Seattle, to Boise. And Donnelly is a really nice ski resort town about two hours north of Boise. And like most ski resort towns, it's got lots of demand to live there, and not enough housing, and normal working people can't afford a place to live. So in Donnelly you've literally got restaurants which are only open six hours a day, because they can't find staff to stay open for kind of two shifts. It's got an affordable housing crisis. So we thought, "Okay, this is the perfect market for us to come in and develop financially attainable housing." We thought we could go in there and charge $600 rents each month if we build a community, and sell beautiful, brand new homes for, let's say, $150,000, to be of real value for customers.

And unfortunately, we went in there and the local community got an idea in their head about what we were building which is really different than what we were actually proposing. And perception is reality. People started telling their friends and their neighbors that Three Pillar Communities was an outsider, we were kind of big, bad developers, we were going to come in and build a terrible, ugly trailer park, and we don't want those kinds of people living in our backyard... To the point where when we went for our initial land use decision in front of the Planning Commission, we got our butts handed to us. We got five votes against us, zero votes in favor. So it was really humbling, really a learning experience for us about really having to reach out to the community in advance to explain what we're actually doing, and how we will actually benefit a local community, and create homes for normal people... And we didn't tell that story well enough in Donnelly, and really got humbled.

Ash Patel: How long ago was this?

Daniel Weisfield: Eight months, roughly. And by the way, we still have the deal in escrow. We're in escrow on the land, and we're working with the Planning Commission to come up with alternate plan that could be viable. We might end up developing garden style apartments, we might do some single-family on the land... So we're figuring out some way to pivot. It's just unfortunate, because I truly believe that manufactured housing would have been the ideal solution to help solve their housing affordability problem, and they just didn't want it.

Break: [00:14:12.01]

Ash Patel: Daniel, you almost need a full PR blitz before you enter a market, right? So right now in that market, the Facebook warriors are probably all over this. "We won. We got the mobile home park out of here." I'm sure you know this, but the right thing to do would be to go in ahead of time, join those local Facebook pages, present yourself, share this podcast, share 3D renderings, or actual videos of parks that you've already got under your belt, and win those hearts and minds. Right?

Daniel Weisfield: You're absolutely right. We're learning as we go. We should have done that earlier. But I'll tell you, the one challenge we have even when we do that sort of thing is we can show videos of our beautiful classic communities, which are the type of product we would be developing in a place like Donnelly, Idaho, but we also do value-add real estate. So we also buy ugly, neglected, class C trailer parks, and we invest to upgrade them and turn them around. They're not pretty to look at. So folks in Donnelly [unintelligible 00:16:16.19] of our class C properties in Renton, Washington, just all really old single-wides packed together, and people built on porches and awnings and extensions, and a lot of those houses look -- well, I don't want to say. They don't look attractive. And they said, "Hey, that's what Three Pillars is gonna build in our community. So we've got to figure out how to get them out." Absolutely.

Ash Patel: Dang. Those keyboard warriors got ya.

Daniel Weisfield: Yeah, that's right. They beat us on this one. But we will rise again. We truly believe manufactured housing is the best way to solve America's housing affordability problem. So we're picking target markets to develop new parks in, in growth markets around the country, and building a pipeline of development opportunities.

So Bozeman is underway; we're moving dirt right now, and we're going to start having our first residents move in in early summer. Donnelly, Idaho was a failure. But after failing and Donnelly, we went and tied up 60 acres in Greenville, South Carolina, which is a market we love, and that project is underway. And we're working on a new development in a suburb of Dallas, Texas. So we absolutely are going to keep doing this.

Ash Patel: I would imagine in those other communities you have to get in front of the politicians, the city leaders first.

Daniel Weisfield: Yes.

Ash Patel: Not only win the hearts and minds of the community, but really get the ear of those city leaders.

Daniel Weisfield: Exactly.

Ash Patel: And how do you do that? Do you do it in person meetings, PR blitz?

Daniel Weisfield: In person.

Ash Patel: Okay.

Daniel Weisfield: We try and sit down with each person who's going to be voting on that, you know, planning commission vote, in person, in their office... But first of all, shake hands and meet them, and then explain who we are, what we want to build, and how it will benefit the community. We did that in our Greenville, South Carolina project, a meeting in person, and lo and behold, we got a unanimous vote in favor of our project. It was a huge win. The mirror image of what happened in Donnelly. In Greenville they said, "Yes, please. We've got a housing affordability problem. That land that you have tied up, it's perfect for this product. Please, come build it. Thumbs up."

Now, we actually had a similar experience in Bozeman, where we went to meet with the head of planning, and we were a little nervous that he was going to say, "No, we don't want manufactured housing here in our community." And he actually said, "I grew up in a manufactured house. I actually currently live in a manufactured house. This is a great product. This is exactly what we need." And he made the process easy, without those unwarranted biases against our product.

Ash Patel: What's the closest you've gotten to a suburban downtown, or a city center...? Or are a lot of these just off the beaten path? It's like, "Yeah, I'll approve this, but do it way over there", or are they close to suburban houses?

Daniel Weisfield: That's a great question. So our Bozeman project - again, it's called Cameron Crossing; you can check it out online - is really in the path of growth in Bozeman. It's five minutes from the airport, 10 or 12 minutes from downtown, and it's right next to single-family subdivisions where new homes sell in the 500k to a million dollar range. So we're right there. They weren't stigmatizing us and pushing us out to the fringes.

The park we're building outside Dallas is a little further out. It's in Ennis, Texas. It's gonna be more workforce. We're not building a lot of amenities in that park. We're trying to create clean, safe, affordable housing for folks who make, let's say, $14 to $18 an hour. And if you have two working adults at home who make 14 to 18 bucks an hour, you can afford a really nice, new three-bedroom, two-bath home in our community. You're not gonna have a swimming pool, but we're gonna have a dog park and a playground. It's gonna be safe and affordable, and we get families in there for $1,200 a month all-in, who are gonna own a home.

Ash Patel: I'm blown away right now. I'm looking at Cameron Crossing... These look like modern, stick-built homes.

Daniel Weisfield: Are you able to share your screen on Zoom? I'm curious if you're--

Ash Patel: Yeah, I will.

Daniel Weisfield: A picture's worth 1000 words, and I'm glad you're checking it out. It blows people's minds when they see the quality of the homes we're building. There's no need to be embarrassed about living in a manufactured home. In many ways, these are better than site-built homes. They're built to federal safety standards, you've got a big quality control process in the factory, they're highly energy-efficient, and they're affordable.

Ash Patel: Best Ever listeners, I urge you to check out Cameron Crossing. It is insane. I've literally seen homes that were stick-built look very similar to this. But this begs the question now - these are intricate homes, and I know they came here on two trucks. Can they ever realistically be moved again?

Daniel Weisfield: Great question. So the technical answer is yes. Someone could uninstall the home from the community, put it on a truck and move it. But the true answer is no one would ever do that, because that home, when it comes out of the factory, might cost $100,000 to $120,000. Once we install it in a community, it's gonna be worth north of $200,000, because it's located in a desirable community, with amenities, and has the driveway, and a site-built garage... And so we've created something of value. No one's ever gonna move that home. It's too valuable.

Ash Patel: And we talked about this a little bit last time... There's that 60 minutes episode, there's all the news stories on these newbies buying mobile home parks, selling off the units, jacking up rents... People can't afford to move their mobile homes; they get evicted or foreclosed on, and it's bad. The stigma out there is bad for mobile home operators. I'm a savvy commercial real estate investor. If I were to buy one of these mobile homes on your lot, I would want long-term lease renewals. Is that something you do? I would say "Look, I want to make sure I'm protected, and you can't jack up my rent 20% every year. Can I have a five-year lease with three renewals?" Is that even possible?

Daniel Weisfield: Yes.

Ash Patel: What?!

Daniel Weisfield: You hit the nail on the head. I love the question. The answer is yes. We're offering five-year leases at Bozeman, with clear CPI link escalations, and at the end of five years we have the ability to reset to market and then we'll offer another five-year lease. And that is the security that a customer wants if they're going to spend $250,000 to buy a really nice manufactured home.

Ash Patel: How heated are these HOA meetings? Are they just like every other ones? Or are they peaceful?

Daniel Weisfield: So let me be clear, there is no HOA in Cameron Crossing.

Ash Patel: Oh, okay.

Daniel Weisfield: We own all the land. There's no subdivision here, right? There's 250 homes, but it's one big parcel, and we own it. Residents buy their own home, they pay us lot rent every month, and consider that a community fee. $600 or $700 a month is their fee to have their home sitting on our lot and to use the amenity package.

Ash Patel: Got it. That's a great way to divide a community, is to start an HOA... You'll destroy communities that way. [laughs]

Daniel Weisfield: Oh good, to destroy a community. I'm sorry, I misheard you. Yeah, I've been on an HOA board... [laughs] I hear you. Yeah.

Ash Patel: Daniel, you're a third-generation mobile home operator. For some of our Best Ever listeners that maybe aren't as experienced as you, or maybe are just new, how can they do what you're doing, and convince their community where there's a shortage of housing to build a manufactured housing park?

Daniel Weisfield: Yeah. Number one, I really appreciate that question, because I really believe in the power of dreaming... And so much is possible in America if you just try. And I think you probably have a lot of listeners who are listening to this and thinking, "Gosh, I've seen that 30-acre parcel outside my town, and nothing's been developed on it. And we have a real affordable housing problem, and I wonder if I can get a new community approved." And if you're out there thinking that, go try it. The first step is find out who owns the land, and try to control the land; either buy the land, or tie it up with a purchase and sale agreement with a long due diligence period that gives you enough time to assess feasibility. That's step one.

Step two is go talk to your local planning staff. There's someone at City Hall who works in the planning department who can tell you what's the land zoned for, and will they allow you to build manufactured housing. And if it's zoned agriculture or industrial, you might be allowed to build manufactured housing by right, meaning you can do it automatically under the zoning, or they might tell you, "No, it's not allowed, but we'd like to see manufactured housing here. We think that's a good way to solve our community's housing problem. So we can work with you and maybe give you a conditional use permit." Go take their temperature; if they say, "Heck no. We have that land reserved to build a shopping center under our zoning. We don't want a mobile home park there", then don't waste your time. Drop that deal and go look for something else.

Ash Patel: Or they're delusional, and they say "We want $100 million mixed-use development here."

Daniel Weisfield: Yeah, exactly. That's probably what you're more likely to hear. [laughter]

Ash Patel: How important is sewer, public sewer?

Daniel Weisfield: It is not a deal breaker.

Ash Patel: Okay.

Daniel Weisfield: So we operate, like I said, 65 communities across the US; probably 15 of those or 20 are on private well, or private sewer. And private sewer could be a gravity flow septic system, or it could be a full wastewater treatment plant, which we operate. So we've gotten really comfortable with operating private utilities, and we're willing to do private utilities as we're developing these new communities on raw land. We prefer city services; it's easier, it's less headache, it's less risk< and at the end of the day, the product will be worth ,more because it's more institutional... But if it's a really good market, or a good piece of land, and we like the deal, we're willing to do private sewer.

Ash Patel: Interesting. And that was my follow-up question, is - I get it, on older ones you're stuck with what you have. But on newer developments, you're willing to install your own septics.

Daniel Weisfield: Yeah. Put it this way - I probably would not do development where we have to do a lot of small, individual septic tanks. That's inefficient, and I wouldn't go for it. But modern technology is amazing. If you've seen any of the -- what are they called, package plants, which is the package wastewater treatment plants? It fits in the size of a room, and it's a machine that takes dirty water in, and it puts clean water out, with no smell. And you invest half a million bucks, or whatever it is, you put in your package plant, and it's valuable.

Ash Patel: That's a whole other episode. In terms of you being a dealer, you are essentially buying from the manufacturer, and able to sell or bring these homes on your lot. If I want to build my own mobile home community, do I go through you and purchase these mobile homes?

Daniel Weisfield: Great question. And -- wait, let me apologize; there's a rainstorm where I am right now. I don't know if you're hearing the background noise from the rain...

Ash Patel: No, you're good.

Daniel Weisfield: [unintelligible 00:27:26.29] on the windows. So there are a few different approaches; if you want to build your own mobile home park, first of all, you can get licensed as a mobile home dealer in your state. Typically, that involves doing a background check and passing an exam. That's absolutely something you could go do.

Alternatively, you can work with established dealers like my company, Three Pillar Communities, or in most towns there'll be a local [unintelligible 00:27:50.28] home store, or your mom and pop local dealership, and ask them "If you would be willing to spec your own capital, put spec homes into my park, I'll give you free lot rent for X number of months, and you bring in the inventory and you sell it and you keep all the profits." And we've done that successfully at a new park that we built outside of Austin, Texas. Dealers were on it like flies on honey, all over this opportunity to sell more homes in a new community we were building. So that can be really viable.

Ash Patel: The last question that I have is, as we set out to build this new manufactured housing community, I understand I build the initial roads... How do you get the county to take that over? Or is it always going to be a private road?

Daniel Weisfield: That depends, it's deal specific. In most of our parks we own the underground infrastructure, and we own the roads. And our biggest ongoing capital expense is asphalt. I spent a million and a half dollars in the past 12 months repaving parks that we own.

Ash Patel: Yeah. Is there a trick to getting the county or the city to take over maintenance on the road?

Daniel Weisfield: If there is, I don't. Legally, you can deed the roads to the city if they want to take them, and it becomes public [unintelligible 00:29:04.23] and then they have to maintain them. We have not had a lot of success convincing cities to take over maintenance of our roads.

Ash Patel: Daniel, what is your best real estate investing advice ever?

Daniel Weisfield: Just do a deal. That's what I always tell people. If you're thinking about investing in a certain asset class, or you've saved up money... Listening to podcasts like this is awesome, doing your research on biggerpockets.com is awesome. But eventually, you've got to just go do a deal. That's how you learn. So I would encourage everyone, take a risk.

Ash Patel: Daniel, how can the Best Ever listeners reach out to you?

Daniel Weisfield: Threepillarcommunities.com. Check us out. You'll see a lot of information there about what we do, manufactured housing. If you have any questions, feel free to email us at info [at] threepillarcommunities.com.

Ash Patel: And I'm assuming you have a link to Cameron Crossing on your website.

Daniel Weisfield: I think so. I think it's right on there. Or check out Cameron-crossing.com.

Ash Patel: Awesome. Daniel, again, thank you for coming back for a second time, just giving us golden nuggets of advice and debunking a lot of myths that up until we spoke with you were gospel to me. So again, thank you so much for all of your time and advice.

Daniel Weisfield: Thank you for having me, and thank you for what you do. You're an incredible educational resource. I really respect what you're doing, and thanks for having me on the show.

Ash Patel: Very well appreciated. Best Ever listeners, thank you so much for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a five-star review, share this podcast with someone you think can benefit from it. Also, follow, subscribe, and have a Best Ever day.

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