July 15, 2022

JF2873: Class A Condo Conversion ft. Tate Siemer


Second-time Best Ever Show guest Tate Siemer has been in real estate since 2006, focusing solely on commercial multifamily for the past four years. Today, Tate is CEO and managing partner at GreenLight Equity Group, which purchases class A, B, and C properties that cash flow and are in appreciating markets. They recently shifted their focus from value-add class C apartments to class A properties almost exclusively in the Columbus, OH, and Oklahoma City markets. 

In this episode, Tate discusses class A condo conversion, why he hires his own tax attorney to underwrite deals based on tax implications, and his tips for hiring the right coach.

 

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Tate Siemer | Real Estate Background

  • CEO and managing partner at GreenLight Equity Group, which purchases Class A, B, and C properties that cash flow and are in appreciating markets. They typically hold properties for two-to-five years and syndicate their deals.
  • Portfolio: GP of 572 units across six properties.
  • Previous Best Ever episode: JF2568: Preparing Assets for the Next Recession
  • Based in: Salt Lake City, UT
  • Say hi to him at:
  • Greatest lesson: Faith through failure.

 

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TRANSCRIPT

Ash Patel: Hello, Best Ever listeners. Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I'm Ash Patel and I'm with today's guest, Tate Siemer. Tate is joining us from Salt Lake City, Utah. He is the CEO and Managing Partner of Greenlight Equity Group, which purchases properties that cash flow in appreciating markets. Tate is a GP on six properties, and was a previous guest on episode 2568. If you google Joe Fairless and Tate Siemer, these episodes will show up. Tate, welcome back, thank you for joining us, and how are you today?

Tate Siemer: I am fantastic, Ash, I am so glad to be with you. It's an honor. Love the Best Ever group, love the Best Ever conference this year... It was such a fantastic event. And I love the podcast, so I'm really honored to be a part of it.

Ash Patel: Well, thank you again, Tate. Before we get started, can you give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and what you're focused on now?

Tate Siemer: Sure. So originally from Cincinnati, Ohio, but I've been in Salt Lake City, Utah for 22 years... And I'm a skier and a mountain biker, and outdoor enthusiast. I've been in real estate since 2006. Started in the single family flipping world. And about four years ago, through a number of different series of events, we switched our focus to solely commercial, multifamily, large scale, or larger scale... And we buy properties in Columbus, Ohio and in Oklahoma City. Pretty much exclusively those two markets. We've been blessed with enough deal flow from those markets that keeps us busy, and we feel very confident about those markets, both from an external metric standpoint, and also from a personal level of expertise in the markets. We feel confident there, we have our infrastructure, property management, construction management set up there...

We're currently under contract on two class A properties in Columbus, that are just great deals, and we're super-excited about them. We're working on another one in the pipe, working on an LOI negotiation with that... And that's also Class A. So we've changed a little bit our focus on the type of asset that we're going after in Columbus. Our first three properties there were all class C value-add, and these are class A light value-add, with a lot of rent growth play. So it's super-exciting, we're loving what we're doing, I love what I do every day. It's a true blessing to be in this space.

Ash Patel: Tate, why is it that a lot of syndicators start out with class C, and then just graduate to B and then A, but they don't go back?

Tate Siemer: That's a great question. I think class C is where you can find the most lift, as far as value-add goes. So class C is the right deal anyway, is relatively easy to pencil, make work on paper. The reality of classy asset management is such that it's pretty difficult; a lot of these deals you're underwriting and turning an entire tenant base and repositioning the whole asset to much higher rent levels after fixing them up... And that's kind of like turning an aircraft carrier around, in a lot of ways, because you inherit a certain tenant base, and you've got to manage that tenant base right away, in addition to managing the turn.

So it's very hands-on asset management, you have to have the right property manager in place to really make that happen well... And quite frankly, the tenant base is just more difficult than class B and class A to manage. So we've gotten schooled, so to speak, on our class C properties. They're going well, but there's been definitely some rough spots, and class A, when you can get those deals to work and underwrite, and class B as well, it's just a different proposition. You're typically looking at keeping most of the tenants in place, even though you might be doing some improvements and maybe raising rents... But the tenant base that's there is likely going to be your tenant base after the repositioning as well. So it's quite a different thing when it comes to asset management, mainly.

Ash Patel: The two that you have under contract, both class A properties - what's the repositioning plan?

Tate Siemer: Well, one of them is a brand new building that was just built in 2021, and was just leased up, and we're buying it at the end of the month; it'll be 90% occupied, at least. Our lease up plan, our business plan is to basically take that brand new building, the units were leased up at very low rent levels by a property management company that didn't have any incentive to get market rents, as far as they knew that they probably weren't staying on... So at first, we're repositioning to market rents, and then this is in the same area that the Intel superconductor chip plant is being built, which starts in October... It's a $20 billion facility that's going in that's really going to transform that local economy. So we think that rent is going to really go up there. However, we've underwritten rent growth pretty conservatively. That said, it's a pretty exciting rent growth play that we've got there. It's just the dynamics of what's going on around there, just a lot of development, a lot of high-end retail restaurants, bars, hair salons, yoga studios... And this was already an affluent area, 750,000 median house price. So we're going to be the lowest housing costs in the market, and still going to be able to grow pretty quickly. So that's the one. The other one is a seven-year-old building.

Ash Patel: Hold on, let's dive into that. Sorry.

Tate Siemer: Sure.

Ash Patel: What are the rents right now?

Tate Siemer: Well, it's interesting. They were renting -- their one-bedrooms, they were originally leasing for 1,350. And we have our target rents at 1650. And what's interesting is, the last few leases they've signed were actually at 1550. So they're already getting a lot closer to our target rent, which is great. But that's basically where rents are now. I think the twos, they started right at 1650, and we've got those up around 19, I believe.

Ash Patel: And how many units total?

Tate Siemer: That's a 43 unit. So a little smaller than what we typically look at... But this was a property that we had on our radar for quite a while, it was off market... And our broker, that's a good friend, they got it for us and knew the builder and developer and really nurtured that relationship. And while we were putting it under LOI in February, Intel made that announcement about the plant, which nobody knew was coming. So we feel like we really caught lightning in the bottle with this deal.

Ash Patel: And what's the purchase price on the 43-unit property?

Tate Siemer: 9.3 million.

Ash Patel: Do you have any idea what the builder paid to build it?

Tate Siemer: I don't. That's a great question. He GC-ed himself, so he saved there, and he sourced a lot of the materials himself as well. So I think he's gonna do just fine on it, but I don't know what the cost basis is.

Ash Patel: Have you thought about partnering with him on future development?

Tate Siemer: No, we haven't. However, we are partnering with the Wyler Group on one of our deals there, the other deal we were talking about. And the Wyler Group is a very well-known, established firm in Columbus that has been around for three generations, and they've developed a lot of different parts of Columbus. And when they develop and build stuff, they hold on to it. So they own assets all over the Columbus area, and are very seasoned in construction. So we know them, we know their results and their expertise, and that's who we would partner with, should we need a builder.

Ash Patel: Okay, so you would use them to build, and then they just turn it over to you.

Tate Siemer: Yeah, and there would be a partnership, a JV, or however we would structure it. And we would be in the asset management role. We're usually in the acquisitions role when it comes to the land or the existing property... We have not done construction in the commercial multifamily space yet, but we are working on a deal that is 67 units, that has a piece of land attached to it, that we could build 70 more units on, with amenities. And we have discussed doing that with the Wyler Group as a partner. So we're working on the LOI on that one. So hopefully, by the time this airs, we'll have that one under contract and moving forward as well. So that'll give us three new ones in Columbus.

Ash Patel: Yeah, I'm not trying to be an advocate of you getting into development... However, this builder, the 43-unit property - obviously they left money on the table by having this property management company rent these units out well below market. So maybe at the closing table, when he's happy about the giant check he just got, if you could point out, "Hey, in the future I'd love to partner with you. We can get you the highest and best rents. We can background-check everybody..." Kind of sell yourself as the property manager, but somehow create a bit of a partnership, where there's additional upside for you guys beyond just property management. I don't know what that looks like, but I'm just thinking out loud.

Tate Siemer: No, that's a great.

Ash Patel: I think it's an opportunity.

Tate Siemer: Yeah, I think it's an opportunity too, and this guy does have a personal relationship with our broker, and has done a lot of other projects with him... So I think that that is a possibility. I like the suggestion.

Ash Patel: Tate, because this property is just a couple years old, was the debt financing any more favorable?

Tate Siemer: Not that I'm aware of. I don't know what went into the debt side's conversations... But we actually do have a good loan; we have 70% loan to purchase, at about 4.3%. We locked that in a while ago. So we've got good debt on this, for sure.

Ash Patel: How long is that locked in for? 10 years?

Tate Siemer: Five. So a five-year lock, with a five-year reprice; then that's a five-year lock as well. So five and five.

Ash Patel: And no CapEx required on this property, I'm assuming.

Tate Siemer: That's right. It's a brand new building, all the tenants are in there for the first time... We did deep property inspections on it and there were a few things that needed to be addressed... But it's coming with a warranty and everything is brand new. We may add a dog park, and we may add some storage. And the other thing we're gonna do, Ash, is this is an area that's really ripe for shorter-term leases. With the Intel plant being built, there's going to be a lot of traveling labor to do this thing. It's going to create 10,000 jobs, and Columbus just doesn't have the labor force for that. So there'll be a lot of out of towners that are going to need a place to stay, so we are going to furnish four units to start. They're vacant right now, and we're going to furnish those and get proof of concept on lease levels that are significantly higher than what we've just talked about. And we haven't underwritten that, but we feel like this property is really primed for that.

Ash Patel: I love that out of the box thinking. So this was roughly a $2 million downpayment...

Tate Siemer: Yes, that's about right. Our total capital raise - I think it's actually a little more than that on the downpayment, but our total capital raise is coming in right at 3.6 million, with everything - closing costs, acquisition fees, etc.

Ash Patel: And you have a great future ahead of you for this property. Is there a five-year hold, a longer, shorter hold?

Tate Siemer: It's likely a five year hold for us... And we've underwritten a five to seven year hold, but it's essentially the same deal, both five and seven year. There's very little variation in the IRR in those last two years. So our honest plan on this is to hold it for -- not necessarily forever, but certainly for 7 to 10 years. However we, will be looking to do a refi and possibly cash out our investors and return their capital. So yeah, for all intents and purposes, it's a five to seven year hold.

Ash Patel: This might be a silly question, but are the appliances and HVAC units - do they get warrantied for five years if they're in multifamily?

Tate Siemer: That's a great question. I believe there's a year warranty on the HVAC, just the manufacturer's warranty on the appliances, which I honestly don't know what that covers and what that is... I'll put that on my list of things to research today.

Ash Patel: You know why - it's like a car. I'm thinking if there's a five-year warranty on some of these things, so maybe it's five years parts on HVAC, one year labor. But if you sell it in year four, people buy it with a year left of the warranty.

Tate Siemer: Yeah, that's a great point.

Ash Patel: No idea if that's even a thing, but... Alright, let's dive into the next property. And congratulations on this one. That's a huge win.

Tate Siemer: Thank you. So the next one is 108 units that were built as condos, seven years ago; beautiful building in an area of Columbus called Short North, which is a very walkable, urban core area. It's got country club-level amenities, huge pool, very nice and large workout center... It's on the Scioto River. And there's a Scioto River walkway path that connects Ohio State University with all the sports arenas downtown, and just miles and miles of beautiful pathway that people run on, and walk their dogs, and rollerblade, and that sort of thing. It was built with 10 and 11 foot ceilings, depending on what floor you're on. Hardwood floors, granite, nice cabinets... And most of the units, even the one-bedrooms actually have one and a half baths. So the two bedrooms usually have two full baths, or two and a half baths. So they've got balconies, stainless... Kind of the whole nine yards as far as the class A amenities go, and finishes.

So again, this is a property that the current management has not kept up with market rents on, and I've got a lot of great rent comps in the immediate area. And there's a million and a half dollar houses being built a street away right now. There's million dollar condos and townhomes... It's highly desirable to live there, and very walkable bars, restaurants, yoga studios, etc.

So the basic play there is upon turnover, do a light update to those units. It's just a little dated. Seven years ago, everybody was putting in beige paint and beige carpet... And things have changed. So to bring them up to date, we're going to likely paint cabinets, we're going to replace some fixtures, some faucets, and probably vanities as well. But nothing crazy beyond that at all. And just bring them up to market rents, and manage them well and ride the growth that's happening in Columbus and the high demand that's in this area. Super-exciting.

Ash Patel: You mentioned these were built originally as condos.

Tate Siemer: Yep.

Ash Patel: They were never sold as condos, though.

Tate Siemer: They weren't, no. One of the nuances in Ohio in general is property taxes. They're pretty complicated. And you may know this, and listeners may know this that have worked there, but they're pretty difficult to underwrite, and there's been some very recent legislative changes to taxes. The nice thing about being condos is that they're taxed at a residential rate, not a commercial rate. So that's a good thing for us. Another nice thing about them is they're individually metered for water, which is unusual in an apartment. And we're actually doing a condo conversion on the first property as well, for the taxation reasons. So it's something that's pretty common, to see apartment communities actually exist as condos.

Break: [00:19:06.13] to [00:20:54.09]

Ash Patel: Explain that to me. So you are taking existing apartments and turning them into condos? Or the other way around?

Tate Siemer: Yeah. On the property we were just talking about, the 108 units, they're already condos. So that's good. On the 43-unit that we talked about previously, they're not yet, but we have already started the ball rolling on doing the condo conversion, so that we're paying less in property taxes.

Ash Patel: Okay, I don't understand what that means... What is a condo conversion?

Tate Siemer: Basically, you're taking a single entity, with a single tax ID number in the way of a 43-unit apartment building, and you're splitting that up into 43 individual units, with individual tax ID numbers, that could be sold individually to individuals.

Ash Patel: But You're not planning on selling them...

Tate Siemer: No, we're not. We're doing it solely for the tax reasons.

Ash Patel: Interesting.

Tate Siemer: Yeah.

Ash Patel: What a great solution to a problem not many know how to get around.

Tate Siemer: Yeah, it is. And it's different in every state. Ohio has very aggressive school boards that go after new transactions and reassessments... So it's a dance with them to mitigate paying super-high taxes. So it is a good strategy.

Ash Patel: Tate, I know that in Ohio they do entity transfers. Are you familiar with that?

Tate Siemer: Absolutely. We do that on every deal. We do an [unintelligible 00:22:16.12] transfer, what some people call a drop and swap... And the technical aspect of that is the seller forms a new entity before closing, he transfers ownership of the property into that entity, and we as the buyer are technically buying an entity that owns property. And what that does is it produces a $0 transaction on the title of the property, and makes it a little harder for school boards to come after you.

That said, all the laws just got changed in a big way, mainly in a good way for us, and they're limiting the school board's ability to reassess and challenge tax value. So the law was just changed. The governor just signed it a few weeks ago, so the implications and applications of the new law have yet to be really tried and tested by the court system and everything else. So we don't know exactly how it's going to wash out, but we hire a tax attorney to underwrite all of our deals, and that's really the best that we can do to predict what's going to happen there.

Ash Patel: Well, wait a minute... That's incredible. You have a tax attorney look at different scenarios and tax implications of them?

Tate Siemer: Yup.

Ash Patel: That's a great idea. [00:23:40.24]

Tate Siemer: Yeah. And again, the complications and nuances of the tax situation there along with the new legislation, which is pretty complex. We just feel like we're in much better hands having a tax attorney underwrite it all.

Ash Patel: Again, great out of the box thinking. I applaud you for that. What does it cost to convert 43 units into condos? Or condo-ize 43 units.

Tate Siemer: We haven't done it yet, so I don't know exactly... But there's a few things that are involved. There have to be architectural drawings, which in this case, we have, of course; if we didn't, we would be paying an architect to do that. And then it's just legal fees; it's attorneys fees to do all the paperwork and everything that needs to be done. I think we're probably looking at around $8,000 for the whole conversion, but --

Ash Patel: You don't have to get a survey for each property?

Tate Siemer: No, just architectural drawings.

Ash Patel: Alright. Well worth it, it seems.

Tate Siemer: Yeah.

Ash Patel: And devil's advocate, Tate - 108 units that were built as a condo... You said there's million-dollar condos being sold in the area.

Tate Siemer: Yeah.

Ash Patel: Why not just sell these off as condo units?

Ash Patel: Well, it's an exit strategy that we certainly will keep on the table, and it's a good suggestion. It's kind of an obvious suggestion. Our price on these ends up being around 320 a unit, roughly... So obviously, if we could get 700-800 a unit, which is really going to be a good price in that area, obviously it would make a lot of sense to do that.

We're buy and hold guys at the end of the day, and we really love the idea of having this 10 years down the road, because of what Columbus is going through. There was 12.7% appreciation and rent levels there last year, and it's predicted to be double again this year, double digits. And then you've got these micro economics, with Intel and other forces, the Ohio State University, the state government, it is the State Capitol... So you've just got a lot of insulation, I guess, from a potential recession or downturn in the market. And in the grand scheme of things, housing is still affordable there, so it's really sought after.

Ash Patel: And were you able to get some great debt on this property as well?

Tate Siemer: We're still working on the debt on this property. We do have a good bank, it is a full recourse loan... But we actually had a 4.3% rate quote from a bank. It seems like everybody I'm sure that's listening is in tune with interest rate hikes and what's happened the last two months. It seems like the banks are being the slowest to respond to those interest rate hikes. So right now, either a recourse bridge, or just a bank loan, even a non-recourse situation, banks are probably going to be the best deal out there as far as interest rates go. And also on the cost [unintelligible 00:26:38.13]

Ash Patel: Yeah. Tate, initially, I introduced you and said you buy in appreciating areas; we get the story of Columbus... What is the deal with Oklahoma City?

Tate Siemer: Oklahoma City is another really solid market that historically has withstood downturns in the economy pretty well, especially in the multifamily asset class. We like Oklahoma City because there's a lot of inventory there. Quite frankly, there's a lot of class C there. And of course, there's Class B and Class A, but when we were starting out in Oklahoma City, let's say two and a half years ago, we were still very much in the class C mindset

So we own three properties there right now, and I would say we're looking there much less aggressively than we're looking in Columbus right now, just because Columbus has a hype and hotness factor to it that Oklahoma City kind of doesn't have. People really like living in Oklahoma City, and the job base is very good, the job diversification is very good there... So that's kind of why we're there. It is appreciating; it's not appreciating like Columbus, but typically, Ash, as you know, a market is either going to be an appreciation market or a cash flow market. So say, Cleveland, for instance, is very much a cashflow market; you can buy properties there at a price level that's going to cashflow really well, but it's not growing necessarily in terms of appreciation.

So Columbus kind of has both right now, because we can still find deals that cashflow and produce a pref payment for investors, and everything else, and it's appreciating. Oklahoma City is maybe let's say a little bit more of a cash flow market, but there's a lot of coastal money and institutional money that's coming into Oklahoma City as well. So we feel like we're in two markets that are rare, in the sense that you can buy cashflowing properties that are appreciating pretty quickly.

Ash Patel: Tate, your 108 unit property you're buying for $320,000 per unit.

Tate Siemer: Yeah.

Ash Patel: Your 43 unit property, what does that come out to per unit?

Tate Siemer: I believe about 230 a unit.

Ash Patel: Okay. Are they that much different? Is it location? You have a brand new property that's selling for less per unit...

Tate Siemer: Yeah. I don't think it's location, I think it's -- well, so in [unintelligible 00:29:03.07] does have higher rent levels than New Albany, which is where the 43 unit is... And it's just a nicer building. Nicer units, like I mentioned, the 10 foot, 11 foot ceilings, and it's got amenities that the 43 unit doesn't have, in a big way. So I think those are the biggest differences. The 108 unit has these huge sandstone casters for foundation. It's beautifully built, it's brick, and with balconies, and it's just a beautiful building. I'm sure the cost to build was quite different than our 43 unit was.

Ash Patel: And is it one high-rise building?

Tate Siemer: It's one five-story building.

Ash Patel: Okay. Alright. The reason I asked that was if it's multiple buildings, can you condo-ize one building? Listen, I just want to see you double your money, so I'm trying to figure out the fastest way to get there... [laughs]

Tate Siemer: Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah.

Ash Patel: This is incredible. Two great deals. Thanks for sharing all the numbers with us as well.

Tate Siemer: Yeah, love it.

Ash Patel: Tate, what is your best real estate investing advice ever?

Tate Siemer: I would say if you want to ensure success in this space, hire a coach, really; if you've done no deals yet, you're a really great candidate for coaching. Even if you've done a lot of deals, I have a coach, I have mentors as well in the space... And I think that it's a quantum leap ahead in terms of years of experience and mistakes and everything else that your coach has ideally been through, that they're going to help you avoid. And they also know what it takes to get deals done. So hire a coach, hire a mentor... I really believe that paid coaches are the highest value, really. You can spend 20k or something a year on a coach, but if that helps get you a $15 million deal or an $8 million deal or a $30 million deal, then it's really just part of the acquisition fee. So hire a coach is my Best Ever real estate advice.

Ash Patel: That is great advice. And I'm going to add - I don't know if you agree with this or not, but your coach should also have a coach or coaches.

Tate Siemer: Yep, I agree. It's important.

Ash Patel: And your coach - have you used mindset coaches, more like a high level? Or do you use business coaches that are down in the weeds with you?

Tate Siemer: Yeah, I'd say my coach right now that I'm working with and have been working with for over a year is a very high-level mindset coach, but he's got a lot of skill around relationships and business, he coaches really high-level business people left and right... But his approach is pretty holistic. So we talk a lot about different areas of my life outside of business... But it kind of makes sense that if you're improving peripheral or tertiary areas of your life that aren't related to your business necessarily, that your business is going to improve as well. A rising tide lifts all ships, or however that goes...

So I think to really move the needle in terms of success, a holistic approach is great. Somebody that gets down in the weeds with you is great, too. And a Jake and Gino program is an example of somebody that is multifamily-specific, that's going to really dig in and hold your hand and help you get deals done. So that's quite different than my coach right now... But I had a coach/mentor early on that was all about getting deals done.

Ash Patel: Awesome. Yeah, and I think it's important for the Best Ever listeners to know that some coaches - they don't really want to know the numbers on your deal. They want to help you at a high level change mindset, and change fundamentals of your life. I've had both. I've had other coaches that don't care about your morning routine, but they want to dive into the latest numbers and the deal and how you're going to raise capital. So thank you for pointing that out as well.

Tate Siemer: You bet.

Ash Patel: Tate, are you ready for the Best Ever lightning round?

Tate Siemer: Always ready. Yeah.

Ash Patel: Alright, Tate, what's the Best Ever book you've recently read?

Tate Siemer: I've been reading a book called Straight Line Leadership. And I can't remember the author's name, but it's not on Audible. It is on Amazon, and it's a fantastic book about being a straight-line leader, which is basically getting from point A to point B, with as little variation in the path.

So a lot of people kind of run in circles, due to limiting beliefs and other factors... And this is really about being a leader that can take other people and the leader's company from point A to point B, which at the end of the day is really what it's about. We're all trying to get somewhere in business, and whatever point B is is where you want to be. So the faster you can get there, and the more powerfully you can get there, the better.

Ash Patel: I love it. Tate, what's the Best Ever way you like to give back?

Tate Siemer: That's a great question. I have been coaching myself for free basically the last six months or so. I have a Calendly link that I advertise on my podcast and other places, and I love hearing from listeners. I basically will offer a 10-15 minute consultations with no strings attached, no agenda. I'm not trying to get anything out of the people I'm coaching. I really just love to see people grow.

So I get a lot of people that book sessions with me. I have a few people that I meet with every week, and right now it's free, and no obligation, no expectation. It won't be free forever. I'm going to be launching a coaching program towards the end of the summer myself. So that's really how I'm giving back right now. As far as the rest of my life goes, I have rescue dog, I'm looking at maybe rescuing another dog, and I love that... And in general, I try to give as much value in terms of resources and knowledge as I can to fellow investors that are maybe just a few steps behind or maybe further than that behind... But I'm here for them.

Ash Patel: Yeah, Tate, I had a similar path where I would always mentor people; anybody who showed me that they're going to put the effort into it, I would mentor them. And like you, I did it for free, for years. But it was always one on one, and it's inefficient. So then I had a bunch of people wanting to learn commercial real estate, they came up to me... Long story short, we started an official mentoring mastermind, and I made the mistake of letting a few of my friends in for free. And that was a big mistake, because they would show up randomly, and they didn't really put the time in to vibe with everybody in the group, whereas the paid people showed up every week, and they really got to know each other and built friendships. So I'm glad you're doing that. It'll be a more efficient use of your time. But don't make the mistake that I made and let people in for free, because they just don't get the same out of it.

Tate Siemer: Yeah, coaching is one of those things... It's value perception, right? So if you write a $10,000 check to be in a mastermind, you're gonna show up, because you want every piece of value that you can get for that 10 grand. And in your head, that coaching or mastermind just became a lot more valuable, because you put a number to it and wrote a check for it... Versus something that's given to you for free, you have the option of showing up for - people just don't put as much value on it, so they're not as committed as they could be... And it's kind of one of those things. I think, as a coach, you want to charge a fair amount of money, because you want that level of commitment.

Ash Patel: Yeah, it's hard to understand it until you've done it, but you're exactly right. And Tate, how can the Best Ever listeners reach out to you?

Tate Siemer: My website is investwithgreenlight.com. If you go there, you'll find a link to book a session with me, like we talked about. That's really if you want to consult with me personally, really about any part of your business. That's really the best way to reach me, is through the website.

Ash Patel: Tate, I love it. I can't thank you enough for joining us again. Please, do come back in the future, because we always have great conversations. So thank you again for deep-diving into what you have going on in Columbus, getting into the numbers... And you just scored a couple of great wins. We're very happy for you, and thank you again.

Tate Siemer: Yeah, I appreciate it, Ash. This was a lot of fun, as usual. I think the world of you guys, Joe and his group - you're just doing a great job. And this is unsolicited, but I'd encourage all the listeners to go to the Best Ever Conference next year. It's a game-changer. And it's very professionally managed and produced.

Ash Patel: Yeah, I agree. It was some of the greatest networking ever. And the cool thing is there's no upsells once you're there. It's just pure networking. This was my first one in-person, and it was a blast. Thank you again, Tate. Best Ever listeners, thank you so much for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a five star review, share the podcast with someone you think and benefit from it. Also, follow, subscribe and have a Best Ever day.

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