September 5, 2022

JF2923: Why Triple-Net Leases Are a No-Brainer ft. Matt Onofrio

Before he founded Wild Moose Ventures, Matt Onofrio worked as a nurse, a paramedic, and a firefighter. He also earned a doctorate in anesthesia from Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN. Despite his achievements, however, he felt trapped — he craved financial freedom. After considering his options, he decided to venture into real estate. 

Today, Matt is the founder of Wild Moose Ventures, which achieves passive wealth-generating opportunities through commercial real estate investments in the Midwest. He is a GP of $500M in assets under management. In this episode, Matt discusses how he finds deals, how he structures a typical deal, and why multifamily investors should consider venturing into non-residential commercial real estate.


Matt Onofrio | Real Estate Background

  • Founder of Wild Moose Ventures, which achieves passive wealth-generating opportunities through commercial real estate investments in the Midwest.
  • Portfolio: GP of $500M in AUM
  • Based in: Eau Claire, WI
  • Say hi to him at:

Greatest lesson: Commercial real estate and triple-net investing present a unique opportunity to build personal wealth and financial independence. Triple-net investing is an often overlooked topic in commercial real estate. Most of the owners are REITs, institutions, or very wealthy individuals. I wrote my forthcoming book, Triple-Net Investing (NNN): Finding Freedom with Commercial Real Estate’s Best-Kept Secret, to educate and empower everyday investors and help scale their investments and achieve the life they never dreamed of.


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Ash Patel: Hello, Best Ever listeners. Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I'm Ash Patel and I'm with today's guest, Matt Onofrio. Matt is joining us from Eau Claire, Wisconsin. He is the founder of Wild Moose Ventures, which achieves passive wealth-generating opportunities through commercial real estate investments in the Midwest. Matt's portfolio consists of being a GP on $500 million of assets under management. Matt, thank you for joining us, and how are you today?

Matt Onofrio: I am doing great. How are you doing, Ash?

Ash Patel: I'm very well. Matt, before we get started, can you give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and what you're focused on now?

Matt Onofrio: Absolutely. So I grew up, travelled a lot, I actually lived in Mexico City for five and a half years growing up; my parents did mission work and then came back to the States. I went to 10 different colleges, I was a nurse paramedic firefighter before getting a doctorate in anesthesia from Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota... And I was feeling trapped; I was in an operating room, and wasn't doing what I wanted to do, and knew that there was a better version of me that was financially free...

So I stepped out of that, did an apartment deal, did a couple of houses and ended up in triple net real estate, and now I have a team of 20, and we send 25,000 letters of month directly out to sellers. We have excellent deal flow, and we have a lot of investors that want to come in with us as well. And I hold a lot of stuff on my personal portfolio as well. So it's been a lot of fun to continue to grow and expand in a short period of time.

Ash Patel: Matt, we'll start with the easy questions. Wild Moose Adventures. Where did that come from?

Matt Onofrio: Wild Moose Ventures - well, my spirit animal's a moose, so... We're kind of up in the Midwest, and I'm big, I'm six foot four, so... Yeah, that was my spirit animal.

Ash Patel: Got it. Now, your whole medical background - achieving a doctorate is no small feat. You had to have been passionate about that field. Or were you?

Matt Onofrio: I think I was passionate about the drive. I was passionate about an achievement. I don't know if, [unintelligible 00:03:23.03] which means that I'm an achiever. So I was kind of always looking for that next level of -- I did an accelerated Paramedic Program, accelerated nursing, accelerated doctorate... And it was just always kind of "What is that next level?" I think when you look at somebody like Tony Robbins, he always talks about growth and contribution are kind of the two things. Once you've hit those levels of financial freedom, you just love the process. So that's what I'm about now, is kind of the journey, and helping other people as well.

Ash Patel: Did you look at other opportunities other than real estate when you were looking to transition?

Matt Onofrio: Absolutely. I looked at network marketing opportunities, I looked at starting my own business, and nine out of ten of those failed... So eventually, all roads kind of led to Rome of reading Rich Dad Poor Dad and realizing that real estate was the most predictable path to wealth, and 90% of millionaires have some holdings in real estate.

I'm a numbers guy, I'm a math guy, and I was like "The best chance I have to become a millionaire and to get financially free is pursuing real estate." So that's ultimately the path that I settled on, and I could feel the best about myself doing it as well, sleeping well at night.

Ash Patel: And based on what little I've heard, I'm assuming you educated yourself before you purchased your first property. I want to hear what you did to prepare, and I'd love to hear about your first property, or your first entrance into the real estate investment world.

Matt Onofrio: Absolutely. So yeah, I started listening to Bigger Pockets, I read a lot of books... But ultimately I had a mentor. You kind of need a mentor for strategy, and you need to coach for mindset. My first year was a 14-unit apartment building, and I had no money, I was in school, no income, I was living at my grandparents' garage and driving a 2012 Dodge Avenger with no heat to my feet at the time... So I was not in a place where I could have taken a deal down on my own, which many of your listeners may be in that same position. And I realized that trying to have the whole deal wasn't going to work for me. So I went to a partner and I just said, "If I can double your money in four months, would you give me 20% of the deal?"

So a 14-unit apartment building in a great location, which is real estate 101, is "Location, location, location", and I was able to go in, he gave me 20% of the deal, we raised the rents, put coin laundry in the basement, started charging for parking, and we did sell in four months, and I got a check for $61,000 after tax, and he doubled his money. And we were off to the races at that point.

You kind of get that first win, and self-confidence is really big, especially if you're in W-2 and you're trying to get out of that, or you're trying to try any new venture, is get those small wins. And it doesn't have to be a home run to start. But I got that, then I did some homes... So I did physician loans where I was house-hacking, living in a room, renting out the other rooms, I quickly realized that wasn't scalable, and then I got into triple net real estate, with a $2.25 million-dollar strip mall, seven tenants been my first commercial deal alone.

Ash Patel: And what was it about retail strip mall that enticed you to buy then?

Matt Onofrio: Well, ultimately, it was a mentor coming to me and saying, "Matt, I think we can structure this in a way where you can bring little, if not any money to closing, and it will cashflow well, and the tenants will pay the loan down for you." So it was 80% bank financing, 15% the seller finance in the form of a seller carry, and 5% I raised as private money, at a fixed interest rate. So I put $0 down, held for five months, sold for $540,000 in profit, and that was kind of the beginning of realizing how to analyze deals.

It all starts with finding a deal, and the money will come if you can get good at finding deals. So that's where I started realizing, whether I was structuring where I would close cash and then refinance, or close and sell it later, or close and put a tenant in the building and sell it... I started to assemble different tools, and then I could take properties that potentially other people couldn't do anything with, and they could be a real winner for me... It was just through mentorship.

Ash Patel: Matt, a $2.25 million property, $540,000 in profit... What was the value-add? How did you increase the property, and in what amount of time was that again?

Matt Onofrio: It was about five months. So this one was an off-market deal, and I think that's the biggest thing, is if you're able to source deals off market, working with the seller, and coming up with a creative strategy, that is a win-win situation. In my business, we do a lot of business in the third and fourth quarter of the year because of tax reasons. So real estate is a very tax-efficient vehicle, so I find a lot of people at the end of the year, whether they need to sell, or 1031, or they have a partnership issue that they need to get out of, or you can find distress in the form of divorce, or just partners not getting along, or we do a lot of sale lease-backs... Probably my favorite strategy that we do is we go in, and ultimately it's a stream of income.

So a triple net lease, for the listener that doesn't know, because obviously this is largely an apartment podcast, which I own a lot of apartments also, but... A triple net lease is where you pass the taxes, any repairs and maintenance and property management through to the tenant. So it's not just the sticks and bricks. Ultimately, the banks can be financing a stream of income.

So we'll go in and find a business owner... An example would be what we call a carpentry shop that's been running for 40 years, they've got strong financials, they've got no debt on the property... And we can say "Well, you guys sign a lease with yourselves for five years, with 2% rent bumps a year", and we can put $4 million in their pocket and a nine cap, and it'll appraise at a seven cap. So all of a sudden, you created a million dollars in value by helping them sign that lease, and it creates a win/win situation. So that's one of the strategies that we like to use a lot, is the sale leaseback.

Ash Patel: Matt, I want to make it clear, back to that first property - 2.25 million. How did you sell it for $540,000 profit? Was it just that you purchased it right?

Matt Onofrio: Yep, bought it right, and I had a 1031 buyer that needed to buy the property, and they needed to not pay tax. So the value to them is they were gonna write a check to the IRS or to us. And the building had rent bumps over time, so on a proforma basis, and it was a new building. So I would say buying right is important. Absolutely.

Ash Patel: And you mentioned you spend a lot of time finding deals. In addition to the letters that you send out, how else do you find deals?

Matt Onofrio: One of the things that I think being in the marketplace is really helpful is we like to mail people at their home address. So a lot of people will end up mailing at an entity level, so that'll go to the attorney's office, that will I end up at a property manager, asset manager, which sometimes can get to the relationship. But we usually find that on a deal size under 10 million, if we can get directly to the seller and get them on the phone and have those conversations, we can establish rapport, trust and get a deal done.

So another option is leasing agents are great. Leasing agents will have a tenant in their back pocket. I did a deal here in my hometown, we bought a vacant FedEx distribution facility at 40,000 feet, and I had a tenant rep guy who had Amazon in his back pocket. So then I go in, buy it vacant at a discount, and then we're able to sign Amazon, and we sold for $2 million in profit. So I would say that it's all a puzzle. So it's just like, what pieces to the puzzle can I line up that are in your favor?

And so in partnering with somebody when a listener is thinking about who they're going to partner with, you to think, "What does that other partner have, a skill set that I don't have?" So whether it's somebody listening to us who has money, maybe you need somebody who has more of that real estate knowledge, whether they're repping a tenant, or they're a broker who knows a seller or property manager who knows the seller... A lot of times there's ways where you want the complementary skill sets, and that's the times where we've had a lot of success.

Ash Patel: Matt, you're giving us some great nuggets of advice. I've got to ask you, some of these deals you're making an absolute killing on. What kind of returns to the investors receive? How do you structure a typical deal?

Matt Onofrio: I would say cash on cash return of 7% to 8%, and an internal rate of return of 30 plus percent. And then that's not even counting the tax benefits. So one of the huge benefits is with cost segregation and bonus depreciation.

So a real estate professional status is where you spend 750 hours a year and/or 51% time in real estate, and it just has to be if you're filing a tax return jointly with one of the spouses. So the benefit of that is a lot of times we can use deferred tax dollars in order to invest in these, which lowers what you're actually putting into the property.

So the one thing that I learned is it's increasing income, and it's also decreasing expenses. Your biggest expense isn't your lattes, it's your taxes. So for me, I realized -- one of the ways that I've grown my net worth very quickly is by deferring tax through depreciation, and a lot of people aren't using that enough.

So the benefit of owning your own deal also is that you have control. People get into real estate because they need control. And ultimately, you can decide which year you buy and sell, and how you reposition the asset, versus not having any control.

Ash Patel: Let's dive into that a little bit. Best Ever listeners, I'm sure, are familiar with the real estate professional tax status. But you mentioned deferred income. What does that mean?

Matt Onofrio: Basically, let's say you're a doc who makes a million dollars a year, and your wife stays at home, and she can be the real estate professional pretty easily. All of a sudden, if you buy a $5 million building and you're able to take 25% to 30% of that in bonus depreciation, that passive loss now becomes an active loss, which offsets active income, and therefore on what you usually would have had to pay taxes on that million dollars on W-2 income, you now pay zero taxes. And that's from a federal level. From a state level, some states vary. But in general, the Federal - it's going to work that way. So the benefit of that is now you're deferring those taxes, and then we swap until we drop. So we use the 1031 exchange to keep trading properties, and if you die while you're holding the asset, then you get a stepped-up basis, you give it to your kids, and they never pay the tax.

So I just like the listeners to know that depreciation recapture is 21%, so if you do sell at some point, there may be a tax liability, but it's going to be less than it would have been on ordinary income.

Ash Patel: And Matt, the spouse that's not working - what do they have to do to qualify for real estate professional status? Do they actually have to have the 750 hours? Or is it just 51% of their income?

Matt Onofrio: You have to have the 750 hours. However, a lot of people think "Well, do I have to have a real estate license? Or do I have to do --" You don't have to have any of those licenses. Just active involvement in real estate. There's six pillars, and as a disclaimer, I am not an accountant, so I can refer you to a good accountant. My accountant was an IRS auditor for seven years.

Most accountants, their mentality is more -- it's not proactive. It's not saying "How can we optimize your picture?" They're just kind of filing it. So unless you have that person coming along that's helping you think through the whole picture, you're never going to get where you want to go. So ultimately, deferring it is what's helped me grow my net worth quickly, and now I'm earning a return on dollars that I would have otherwise paid in taxes. So it's an infinite return.

Ash Patel: Yeah. And a question that a lot of our listeners are probably wondering - going forward, would you rather buy retail or multifamily?

Matt Onofrio: I like grocery-anchored retail. I think grocery is doing really well. We do a lot of due diligence. So one of the pieces is I want to see store sales. I'm actually buying two grocery anchor deals right now. One is FreshTime and the other one is Cub Foods. So we know the guarantees behind the lease. We know for the last five years what they've done in store sales every year, and then we take a sales-to-rent ratio, to make sure that they're highly profitable in that location.

So in addition to that, with retail we get vehicle counts that go in front of the building, we use a technology called PlacerAI, which counts foot traffic counts in and out of the building off of cell phones... And then we can rank that against all the other stores. So I can know that I'm buying the number five Cub Foods in the area, or whatever.

So we're able to really make sure that we're doing the right due diligence on those kinds of properties, and I think that multifamily is great. I literally yesterday just closed a $30 million brand new apartment complex, 120 units. And the upside of multifamily is you're gonna be able to increase those rents every year as inflation grows. So I love that piece of it. It is more time-intensive, and you're gonna be paying a lower cap rate.

So ultimately, I like both. I'm a lover of all kinds of real estate, and I do a lot of real estate. And I love industrial as well. But I think if you're going to do retail, you need to know that you have an essential business that you're working with, and you need to do a lot of due diligence. But I think that when others are fearful, be greedy. So if somebody goes from an asset class, I usually know that "Okay, if something's a little softer, that means that there's probably opportunity." So while there may be a lot more offers on multifamily, maybe I'm doing some of that, but I'm also hitting these other asset classes. And I think in any portfolio - like when you have stocks or bonds, you have some that are very stable, and then you have some that you're looking for growth. So that's why I think that there's a lot opportunity right now, in a very positive way, in retail.

Break: [00:16:44.19] to [00:18:30.24]

Ash Patel: Matt, your thoughts on the upcoming interest rate hikes, and what that's going to do to each asset class.

Matt Onofrio: Yeah, I think that rates are gonna go up another half point probably at least in July, and we'll see how the market responds to that. I think that the difference between where we're at now -- in 2008, there was a banking issue where they weren't liquid, which is not something that we're dealing with right now. Banks are still liquid. So I think that it'll slow things, and I believe that it will change our underwriting a little bit. However, if you're buying as a long-term hold investor, a lot of times we're getting five-year money.

So from a historical perspective, a couple of decades ago interest rates were double digit. So I don't think from a historical perspective that a five, six plus percent interest rate is that crazy. And I think if you're looking at multifamily, you've got the HUD, Fannie, Freddie, you've got some other options, you've got longer amortizations... But ultimately, I think just people usually aren't resourceful enough. So if how you've been structuring deals - you have to change that, where maybe more equity is coming down. Or maybe you're looking for more value-add strategies, or maybe you're structuring your leases with CPI increases in the leases, which means that the rents go up based on inflation.

We did a pallet company last year, and the rent was based on CPI, and with inflation being as high as it was, that was a huge win. So that is how I would structure a triple net lease, to make sure that you stay up with inflation. And CPI, for the listener who doesn't know, that is Consumer Price Index, usually one and a half percent or something a year. Now it's 6% to 8%. So I think there's ways in any asset class to keep moving forward, and obviously, people are still going to need a place to buy their groceries. There's still going to be a need for it.

Ash Patel: So Matt, when you structure a deal with a high net worth individual purchasing a property, it's their property, they own it; you essentially help them acquire it, manage it, and then 1031 if and when they choose to. How do you get paid on those deals?

Matt Onofrio: Sometimes it's just a fee at closing. Because we have a lot of people where maybe I know a seller, and I'm able to put a buyer onto their deal, and I make a 1% to 2% fee at closing. Sometimes I have the property under contract, and I'm assigning it to a new buyer, or double-closing. Or sometimes it's a property that I own, and I'm able to sell that. So there's a lot of different ways that those are structured. But ultimately, we always make sure that they're buying a building that's at or under market rent, that's at or under replacement cost. And in addition to all the other due diligence and appraisals and stuff we do, we always make sure that the person is safe, and that there's upside in the deal.

Ash Patel: I've got to tell you, I've not read a lot of good commercial real estate books, especially when it comes to retail, warehouse, industrial, office. And I know you've got a book coming out. But before that, have you found any really good CRE books?

Matt Onofrio: I like Brian Murray's book, "Crushing it in commercial", I like that book a lot. And it's one that does touch on a little bit on other asset types outside of apartments. And I just think he's smart. He's a friend of mine, and they do a lot of apartments and mobile home parks and stuff, but he's owned some other stuff... I think that's good. But a lot of them don't dumb it down enough to a point where somebody who's a doctor or a high-income professional, or maybe somebody who's in single family or multifamily and doesn't know the language can get there.

There's some higher level books where if you're a commercial real estate broker, they'll have these Bible-level-looking books that you could dig into. But I was excited to write a book that was for the average, everyday reader. And half of this is mindset; being in a mindset of wanting to grow and create financial freedom. And for the mindset shifts that we talked about in my book are active to passive income - because in active income, the first six months you're working for the government... Cash flow to net worth- realizing that cash flow is important, but really, if you can get the net worth picture right, the cash flow comes six figures to seven and beyond. So just thinking bigger, no matter what asset classes you're in, put a zero behind it. And then debt negative to debt positive, meaning get away from the Dave Ramsey no debt kind of a thing, but if it's income-producing debt... And really, debt is a hedge against inflation; if I can borrow money, even at 5% or 6%, and inflation is 8%, my cost of capital is negative 3%. So just thinking of yourself as a money manager and a steward, rather than "This is my money, and I'm just going to hold it." Because ultimately, it's like holding an ice cube that's melting in your hand.

Ash Patel: When I go to these conferences, I run into a lot of multifamily people, and I'm more interested in finding out what they're doing, but if they ask what I'm doing, and I talk about the commercial real estate side of things, it becomes almost like I'm selling it on how they should look into other asset classes. Do you find yourself in similar conversations, and then do you essentially try to convince people that they should at least take the blinders off and look at other asset classes?

Matt Onofrio: The funny thing is usually it doesn't take any convincing at all; it's kind of an irresistible offer. If I could sit down with you and you make a million dollars a year, and your wife is willing to be somewhat active in the business, and I can say "We're going to stop you from paying four or five hundred thousand a year in taxes, you're going to invest it in a grocery-anchored center", it makes so much sense, and it's just kind of a no-brainer. And ultimately, triple net real estate is usually old, white-haired guys that own these buildings, or REITs, institutions or funds. So it's really only the wealthiest of the wealthy that have had access to it. So really, when you lower that bar to entry, and you educate people, it becomes kind of a no-brainer decision for them.

Ash Patel: Thank you. My question was more on taking a multifamily syndicator or somebody that invests in multifamily actively, and trying to get them to look at other asset classes.

Matt Onofrio: Absolutely. I think the scalability is there. As you become wealthier, your time becomes more valuable. A lot of times, when you look at these multifamily projects, they take a lot more of your time. So if you're already financially free, you may want to own a FedEx distribution facility that you can buy and you have one tenant that you know is going to pay the rent, that's going to go up every year. I own two fleet farms, which are like your Lowe's or Home Depot; they have 18 year leases on them, and they're backed by KKR, which is a private equity company.

So I think that even if somebody is in real estate, whether it's single family, mobile home, self-storage, the scale - you can only manage so many units if you don't have the team right and everything. So I think from a time perspective, it makes a lot of sense for people.

Ash Patel: Yeah, these triple net sound really appealing. What's an example of a time where a tenant left, or you had a problem with a tenant not paying rent, or went out of business? ...anything.

Matt Onofrio: So obviously, things have been tested with COVID. When COVID hit, when you look at retail, there were some mandatory lockdowns. And there are tenants that I do like to stay away from. I don't like gyms, bars or restaurants that much, for those reasons. But ultimately, we had a couple of tenants on deals where they, for three months during COVID, would pause. And at that point, we would call the bank and the bank would just either go interest-only on the loan, or they would defer mortgage payments and put them on the end.

So when you start to view the bank as your partner - a lot of times I'm working with local or regional banks, where it's not CMBS, and that kind of stuff. So you'll become more valuable to the bank, and they'll start to work with you on that. So that was a situation -- when a tenant's left, a lot of times we get a year notice, you'll get a longer notice, in general, than you will with a multifamily tenant or something. So we'll start to market the space. And we're able to incentivize them through different ways, whether it's offering free rent, or helping them with the TI... But ultimately, always realizing it's just a math equation. So sometimes we're able to get their base rent higher if we give them an incentive upfront, which ultimately makes the building more valuable. So a lot of times, if you understand the math and how to structure the leases, it's a very good wealth-building tool.

Ash Patel: And TI is tenant improvement money. So essentially, you want to give them a whole bunch of money upfront, and make sure that their annual lease payments are much higher, so that your NOI is higher, and then you divide that by 0.08 or 0.07 cap rate, you've made a tremendous amount of money.

Matt Onofrio: Absolutely. And that's kind of the exponential upside that we talk about in the book; every dollar I add to that NOI is a multiple of what the building becomes worth.

Ash Patel: What's the biggest value-add proposition you would do in retail? Would you take a strip that's half-vacant, or a strip that's a combination of triple nets and mom and pops?

Matt Onofrio: [unintelligible 00:27:18.15] is a friend of mine, and I'm in his country and Academy; one of the things that he does - he bought a deal here in Wisconsin, it was a strip; it had a CVS on the one end, with a bunch of other tenants. So he came in and you can parcelize it. So you can come in and take something that's all one piece and chop off the pharmacy, sell that at a much lower cap rate, and as a single-tenant asset, and then you can pay down the other remaining strip, and sometimes not even have debt, and then you can just cash flow well.

So I think that's a very good way to keep your risk low and add a lot of real value, thinking of how can I parcel things off? Sometimes we'll buy centers where we can take out lot parcels, sell those off. Solar, I've got a Walgreens right now that we're doing a sign deal with; they're gonna sign a 20-year lease on a sign for $27,000 a year. And it's just gravy on top of whatever you have. So sometimes you can sell rights to things, and that's additional ways that you can add value.

I think that the other thing you can do with your tenants is sometimes they have an incentive in their business that if they make over X amount, you're getting a percent of their sales. So that's another way to pick up additional income. And sometimes you're able to pass things through, if you're vertically integrated. Maybe you're able to have a management company and build some of that through.

I've got a REMAX Results building, and this is a 10-year deal with REMAX on a lease, and they pay a $24,000 management fee that's built into their lease, but it's a single tenant building. So there's nothing really to manage. And that's why it's a team sport; we have legal, all those people who review the leases and stuff, and you'll find hidden gems, where sometimes it's not always what meets the eye.

Ash Patel: And that's the challenge with commercial, is the devil's in the details. So a lot of the leases can have provisions that can either go heavily in your favor, or against you. What are some things that can go heavily against you?

Matt Onofrio: So carve-outs is what you're talking about. And there's different kinds of leases. There's a double net lease, where the roof, structure, parking lot's 100% on the landlord; there's a triple net lease, where sometimes there's variants of that, where you're able to bill it back to the tenant for any repairs and maintenance, but a replacement - you would amortize it to the tenant over the usable life. So let's say a roof is $100,000 or $200,000; then you would build that back potentially with interest over 15 years, or whatever. So sometimes the benefit of doing that is that can be seen as additional income that's consistently coming in.

Then there's an absolute net lease, where it's 100% on the tenant, and then a step above that would be a ground lease, where you don't even own the building; you'd ultimately just get the keys back. So there's definitely different kinds of leases, and we talk about all that in the book, of helping people think through that. But absolutely, reading that, and then also talking with management, doing a tenant interview, making sure that what's actually happening is what's in the lease as well.

Ash Patel: Matt, what is your best real estate investing advice ever?

Matt Onofrio: I would just say the difference between the poor and the rich is leverage. And leverage, whether on a transactional basis with a bank, or also with your staff and your team. So I now have 20 staff, I've got a board of advisors, those kinds of things... So I would just say, use leverage to get where you need to go. And maybe early on it's hiring an executive assistant, or hiring somebody to drive you, or cook, or clean, or... Thinking of your hour and your time as valuable, and never trading that for a fixed amount after a certain period of time.

Ash Patel: Matt, are you ready for the Best Ever lightning round?

Matt Onofrio: Let's do it, man.

Ash Patel: Alright, man, what's the Best Ever book you've recently read?

Matt Onofrio: The Speed of Trust, by Stephen Covey. Really good book. And if you have high trust, the speed of a transaction will go up and the cost will go down. If you have low trust, your speed will go down and your costs will go up. So no matter what you're in, just understanding that that's really important. And so how you do anything is how you do everything. So if you're just getting started, and you set a meeting, show up to the meeting; if you set up the call, show up the call. Do what you say you're going to do. Keep the promises that you make to yourself, and that self-confidence will ultimately continue to grow a trust in others as well.

Ash Patel: And Matt, what's the Best Ever way you like to give back?

Matt Onofrio: I go to Jacob's Well Church, so I love giving to them, and that's been one of the best ways. I also have done some medical missions trips, because my background's in anesthesia. I spent a month in Bangladesh actually, an admissions hospital, which was really fun. So I want to do more of that as well.

Ash Patel: Matt, how can the Best Ever listeners reach out to you?

Matt Onofrio: @matt.onofrio on Instagram. And then is my website. We've got a book coming out this fall on triple net investing... So those are all ways that somebody could reach out to me, and either me or somebody from my team will get back to you.

Ash Patel: Matt, I've gotta thank you for being out here today. I know you're very busy. Your career started out in the medical world, transitioned into something that can create a lot more wealth for you... Thank you for sharing all of your tips on finding deals, taking down deals, dealing with investors... A lot of great pieces of advice. I'm definitely gonna listen to this one a couple times. Thank you.

Matt Onofrio: I love it, Ash. Great spending time with you.

Ash Patel: Best Ever listeners, thank you so much for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a five-star review. Share the podcast with someone you think can benefit from it. Also, follow, subscribe and have a best ever day!

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